The Size of the Droid Army "Retconned"

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2006-04-28 01:11pm

Fucking unbelievable. I've had debates threads with McEwok that dragged on and on with all the TFN babies accusing me of flaming and threatening to ban me, and even those threads were merely locked. Traviss' fanboy defenders have really stooped to a new low here.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2006-04-28 01:14pm

Was anything saved before it was deleted?

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2006-04-28 01:19pm

Archon
Yes, it's me

I'm not a big EU junkie, but I do love the movies very much. And this is just too ridiculous to see.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2006-04-28 01:20pm

Stas Bush wrote:I can't believe it. I revived a 3-year-old account to post about this on TF.N. Incredible. Though I doubt my voice would have any effect.

What is your username at TF.N, and what thread did you post in? I would like to join you. I think EVERYONE here needs to speak out about this. We can't let these assholes get away with this shit. I don't even care if I get banned from that shitty forum for bringing the subject up again, so much as I get the message out.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2006-04-28 01:26pm

Jim Raynor wrote:
Stas Bush wrote:I can't believe it. I revived a 3-year-old account to post about this on TF.N. Incredible. Though I doubt my voice would have any effect.
What is your username at TF.N, and what thread did you post in? I would like to join you. I think EVERYONE here needs to speak out about this. We can't let these assholes get away with this shit. I don't even care if I get banned from that shitty forum for bringing the subject up again, so much as I get the message out.

Start a new thread, without mentioning KT. Just say something like, "Do you agree with LFL's apparently current number of 3,000,000 clones in the GAR?" Then point out that this is not a debate thread, and ask everyone to do everything with one post only.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2006-04-28 01:29pm

I want to call out the cowards who deleted the previous thread. Will that be enough, or just an invitation for another quiet deletion/ban?

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2006-04-28 01:30pm

It's the ODDS thread in the Literature section of the TF.N forum. My post is one of the last. I'm Gross-admiral_Thrawn.

And my concern is that ODDS, apart from just being crap, let's be honest, is going against Lucas' vision. So I post in the ODDS thread.

P.S. Did someone save the deleted thread? I bet it could be pulled out of people's browser cache in it's last stance before deletion. And then use it as evidence, because the thread wasn't a flamewar and wasn't intended to be one.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2006-04-28 01:45pm

I just posted this at TFN:

OK, can anyone tell me why that "one post each" thread about the clone numbers was deleted? There weren't any arguments or flames at all, and even those kind of threads are usually just locked instead of quietly deleted. That thread showed that critics of the 3 million man GAR outnumbered the people who supported it by over 4 to 1. Have you Traviss defenders stooped so low that you would erase evidence that went against you?

Let's see if they delete this too.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2006-04-28 01:49pm

Oh noes.

Their EU mod can't even count his Acclamators - his recent "We never see more than a dozen Acclimators at one time and we never see the kind of overwhelming forces that you all talk about on screen". Clearly, they NEED to take an elementary math class.

Or maybe just see the movie.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-04-28 02:25pm

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/aotc/parade08a.jpg

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/aotc/parade16a.jpg

At least 21 ''Acclamator''s are present in one panning shot, possibly more further away on the staging area.

Adding to that, at least 1000 more being ordered right after Geonosis.

Note, the dots of clones extend into the far background.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-04-28 02:37pm

VT-16 wrote:http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/aotc/parade08a.jpg

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/aotc/parade16a.jpg

At least 21 ''Acclamator''s are present in one panning shot, possibly more further away on the staging area.

Adding to that, at least 1000 more being ordered right after Geonosis.

Note, the dots of clones extend into the far background.

Dr. Saxton corrected that later to at least 22 Acclamators. One more could be seen in this picture.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-04-28 02:45pm

Thanks for the correction, Mange.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2006-04-28 03:42pm

I posted this in the official Null Arcs and Commandos thread:

I wrote:
Commander5052 wrote:Well, whenever I e-mail Karen to ask her questions, I simply know to stay away from the whole GAR size thing, due to its sensitivity and controversy. She's pretty nice if you know what to stay away from.
The thing is, her writing seems to me to have devolved to the point where it is done purely to support the GAR size figure that she first advocated. Have you actually read her latest story in Insider? What is the point of that story, if not to advance the same old figure? We read about two clones on a sabotage mission that involves no tension (a maintenance droid that can't see them goes past, at one point), and hear the Nulls bantering back and forth (further destroying any sort of tension that could exist). There is no suspense. There is no actual plot (except to argue that the 3 million clones figure is viable, and that the magnitude of the droid army is overstated by a factor of 10,000,000). I'd actually be very curious to hear what others thought of the story itself, because to me it read as nothing other than a cheap shot taken at detractors of the 3 million figure.

I'm actually interested in the response--how is anyone to read that story, other than as a mechanism for the advancement of the 3 million clones number?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-04-28 04:07pm

I'm actually interested in the response--how is anyone to read that story, other than as a mechanism for the advancement of the 3 million clones number?

I don't see any other realistic interpretation. Aside from that contrived and confusing "Grr, the Kaminoans are mean" bit, virtually everything else in the piece revolves around trying to justify the 3 million number, be it through OMG the Seppies suck, they don't guard or maintain even one of their largest factories (or preform quality control checks on the products, evidently), ZOMG we just blew up one of their troop transports (unguarded, evidently) with an incursion shuttle, and LOL, Palpatine is conspiring with the Jedi. It is, quite simply, reactionary bullshit through and through.

IceHawk-181 · Post by **IceHawk-181** » 2006-04-28 04:07pm

In the full knowledge that the moderators had, for some unknown reason, completely deleted perhaps the single most civil thread on the GAR-Traviss debate I have ever seen I posted this.

“Until both sides agree at least to allow the debate to settle into something more amiable we will have the exchanges until Moderators either suppress all discussion of the topic or both sides learn how to mature past absurdity.”

The response was quite simply, “It's getting close to that point, unfortunately.” From dp4m, apparently right after he edited my post to remove any mention of Karen’s part in the flaming, simply saying, “Please do not comment personally about other people, including authors.”

This is beginning to rise to the level of utter bullshit.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2006-04-28 04:14pm

I was fucking bored by Odds. As you guys said, there's no tension and no plot. The story goes to ridiculous lengths to ensure the safety of those two commandos, so that they can safely chat about the freaking numbers in the middle of a mission.

Can you imagine how the casual SW fan, who probably doesn't even know about Traviss's stupid vendetta, would feel after reading this?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2006-04-28 04:28pm

IceHawk-181 wrote:In the full knowledge that the moderators had, for some unknown reason, completely deleted perhaps the single most civil thread on the GAR-Traviss debate I have ever seen I posted this. [snip]

That's not all. They have, apparently, gone through after the debate ended and deleted several of my posts in which I presented, mathematically, why the 3 million clone number didn't work. More here.

IceHawk-181 · Post by **IceHawk-181** » 2006-04-28 04:34pm

Oh boy oh boy.
+http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx ... t=23765808

Dp4m said no Canon proof for a large army……mathematics or reading comprehension issue? What do you guys think….sheesh

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-04-28 04:39pm

IceHawk-181 wrote:Oh boy oh boy.
+http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx ... t=23765808

Dp4m said no Canon proof for a large army……mathematics or reading comprehension issue? What do you guys think….sheesh

Drown him in quotes.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2006-04-28 04:49pm

In light of recent deletions, I suggest people start getting paranoid and taking screenshots.

IceHawk-181 · Post by **IceHawk-181** » 2006-04-28 04:51pm

The obvious reply will contain some questioning of whether or not its really one governor to every planet, perhaps its only one governor and one regiment per every Sector, perhaps being Senators they are really wrong about what they think is going on…..etc etc….

In reference to an earlier post, someone mentioned 2,500 Venator Star Destroyers at the Battle of Coruscant. Is that a direct quote or a rationalization? I would love to be able throw the idea that a third of the entire Army would be serving as mere fighter pilots for a single fleet.

...omfg....

I SWEAR I wrote this before reading his reply....son of a bitch......fools

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-04-28 04:52pm

I don't generally do this for off-site figures, but...

Ah, and if your wondering about the creature type, I thought a bit of turnabout was fairplay. Check out the vocabulary section.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-04-28 04:55pm

IceHawk-181 wrote:The obvious reply will contain some questioning of whether or not its really one governor to every planet, perhaps its only one governor and one regiment per every Sector, perhaps being Senators they are really wrong about what they think is going on…..etc etc….

In reference to an earlier post, someone mentioned 2,500 Venator Star Destroyers at the Battle of Coruscant. Is that a direct quote or a rationalization? I would love to be able throw the idea that a third of the entire Army would be serving as mere fighter pilots for a single fleet.

...omfg....

I SWEAR I wrote this before reading his reply....son of a bitch......fools

Look at that:

dp4m wrote:Further, there were 1,024 seats in the Senate. So 108 troopers arriving all at the same time on 1,024 worlds is roughly 108,000 troops.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-04-28 04:59pm

Point out to the moron that even a planet as tiny and out of the way Naboo, represents what was it, 30 inhabited worlds, as per the AOTC ICS? Or for that matter, the fact the 20,000 more systems joining the CIS in AOTC didn't utterly destroy the Republic.

Wow, there are 535 members of Congress. There sure are a lot of states I've never heard of...

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-04-28 05:01pm

Noble Ire wrote:Point out to the moron that even a planet as tiny and out of the way Naboo, represents what was it, 30 inhabited worlds, as per the AOTC ICS?

Wow, there are 535 members of Congress. There sure are a lot of states I've never heard of...

Yeah, Cloak of Deception states that Palpatine was senator of Naboo as well as 32 other inhabited planets.

EDIT: I checked CoD and it was actually 36 other planets. My mistake.

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The Size of the Droid Army "Retconned"

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