The Size of the Droid Army "Retconned"

Post by **NecronLord** » 2006-04-28 05:04pm

Dp4m wrote:Also -- what's a regiment? (To me a regiment is 108, a battalion is 36, a company is 12 and a lance is 4).

Ehehe.

Let's just all pause and have a laugh at the battletech units. There must be a name for this absurd fallacy...

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-04-28 05:08pm

NecronLord wrote:
Dp4m wrote:Also -- what's a regiment? (To me a regiment is 108, a battalion is 36, a company is 12 and a lance is 4).
Ehehe.

Let's just all pause and have a laugh at the battletech units. There must be a name for this absurd fallacy...

"To me a regiment is 108"

Funny, the OoB of the GAR says 2,304 troops...

IceHawk-181 · Post by **IceHawk-181** » 2006-04-28 05:08pm

I can't find Tarkin's quote about a million systems in my copy of the Trilogy for some reason...where the fuck did it go?

I do not understand how someone can misinterpret the words, "every planet" and "systems" to mean only the Sector capital......I thought there were some TFN native intellectuals...

Now the Empire of a million planets was predated by a Republic of only 1,024?

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-04-28 05:10pm

IceHawk-181 wrote:I can't find Tarkin's quote about a million systems in my copy of the Trilogy for some reason...where the fuck did it go?

I do not understand how someone can misinterpret the words, "every planet" and "systems" to mean only the Sector capital......I thought there were some TFN native intellectuals...

Now the Empire of a million planets was predated by a Republic of only 1,024?

See above. It seems as if he's unaware that the individual senators represents more than a single planet (some of them represents thousands of inhabited planets).

Utah Jak · Post by **Utah Jak** » 2006-04-28 05:14pm

NecronLord wrote:
Dp4m wrote:Also -- what's a regiment? (To me a regiment is 108, a battalion is 36, a company is 12 and a lance is 4).
Ehehe.

Let's just all pause and have a laugh at the battletech units. There must be a name for this absurd fallacy...

Grasping at straws much Dp4m? Is defending your minimalist stance so important that you?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-04-28 05:14pm

IceHawk-181 wrote:I can't find Tarkin's quote about a million systems in my copy of the Trilogy for some reason...where the fuck did it go?

I do not understand how someone can misinterpret the words, "every planet" and "systems" to mean only the Sector capital......I thought there were some TFN native intellectuals...

Now the Empire of a million planets was predated by a Republic of only 1,024?

It's in the SW novel for easy pickings.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2006-04-28 05:38pm

double-penetration 4 men wrote:
IceHawk-181, look at what you're posting:

as governors over every planet in the Republic

Governors OVER every planet in the Republic. Which is explicitly NOT governors ON every planet in the Republic.

And D-K, we've already established (just now) that we don't know how many governors there are. Adding to that, if they arrive at different times, they could be arriving with a rotating security force so people think they have a large contingent of troops (and then they move onto the next arrival). No one said they were all arriving at once...

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-04-28 05:41pm

Good dog, I've tried to slog through that tread, but my brain ran away screaming. I don't understand the fanatisim for Travis? If king George Lucas himself said the number, I could understand the 'circle the wagons' attitude, but not from this?

IceHawk-181 · Post by **IceHawk-181** » 2006-04-28 05:46pm

We now quibble over the definitions of the words over and on.

Why Mr. President, I didn’t know you were a moderator.

Why can no one on those damn boards use a literal interpretation of the goddamn words? Bail says “over” denoting a level of authority, our good moderator seems to think over refers to some galactic position “above” the world.

Maybe he thinks every governor arrived with an Acclamator or a Venator and rules from orbit.

Certainly would up the Clone figures….

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2006-04-28 05:50pm

NecronLord wrote:
Dp4m wrote:Also -- what's a regiment? (To me a regiment is 108, a battalion is 36, a company is 12 and a lance is 4).
Ehehe.

Let's just all pause and have a laugh at the battletech units. There must be a name for this absurd fallacy...

Of course, that was just for mechs. A BT infantry regiment is nearly a thousand men.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2006-04-28 05:53pm

Mange the Swede wrote:Yeah, Cloak of Deception states that Palpatine was senator of Naboo as well as 32 other inhabited planets.

EDIT: I checked CoD and it was actually 36 other planets. My mistake.

Posted. Thanks, Mange.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-04-28 05:58pm

Imperial Overlord wrote:
NecronLord wrote:
Dp4m wrote:Also -- what's a regiment? (To me a regiment is 108, a battalion is 36, a company is 12 and a lance is 4).
Ehehe.

Let's just all pause and have a laugh at the battletech units. There must be a name for this absurd fallacy...

Of course, that was just for mechs. A BT infantry regiment is nearly a thousand men.

USMC TO&E; 1 Battlion is 3 infantry companys and 1 weapons company (plus HQ element). 1 infantry company is 3 infantry platoons and 1 weapons platoon. A platoon is 3 squads of 13 plus a PtCm and PltSgt. So 40 times 4 is 160 times 4 is 640. Plus or minus a bit for HQ elements, or even short staffed units, figure 2/3's of what you just said.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2006-04-28 05:58pm

IceHawk-181 wrote:We now quibble over the definitions of the words over and on.

Why Mr. President, I didn’t know you were a moderator.

Why can no one on those damn boards use a literal interpretation of the goddamn words? Bail says “over” denoting a level of authority, our good moderator seems to think over refers to some galactic position “above” the world.

Maybe he thinks every governor arrived with an Acclamator or a Venator and rules from orbit.

Certainly would up the Clone figures….

What this guy is doing is pure desperation. Not surprising when the position you are arguing for is weak.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2006-04-28 06:02pm

double-penetration 4 men wrote:
IceHawk-181, look at what you're posting:

as governors over every planet in the Republic

Governors OVER every planet in the Republic. Which is explicitly NOT governors ON every planet in the Republic.

And D-K, we've already established (just now) that we don't know how many governors there are. Adding to that, if they arrive at different times, they could be arriving with a rotating security force so people think they have a large contingent of troops (and then they move onto the next arrival). No one said they were all arriving at once...

Excuse me...?

Is he trying to say they ROTATE troops from world to world to make them seem more numerous?

Maybe i'm reading it wrong. But why do i doubt it.

Thats simply the most moronic concept i've ever heard, i'd buy three dudes on every planet than rotating teams of soldiers sprinting from planet to planet to appear more numerous.

I mean, for God's sakes, its like one of those bad sitcom episodes where the guy rushes between two dates at once.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-04-28 06:12pm

108 troopers

For one world? Delusional much?

IceHawk-181 · Post by **IceHawk-181** » 2006-04-28 06:13pm

He is right, Govenors rule over systems.

So we are talking about hundreds of thousands of Govenors overseeing each of a million worlds.

Still means hundreds of billions of Clones are being actively deployed to every system.

I fail to see how decreasing a few trillion to a few hundred billion Clones helps his position.

He is Orders of Magnitude off....whats the difference of one or two?

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-04-28 06:16pm

Shatterpoint says 1.2 million planets. Possibly only the member states.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2006-04-28 06:17pm

Knife wrote: USMC TO&E; 1 Battlion is 3 infantry companys and 1 weapons company (plus HQ element). 1 infantry company is 3 infantry platoons and 1 weapons platoon. A platoon is 3 squads of 13 plus a PtCm and PltSgt. So 40 times 4 is 160 times 4 is 640. Plus or minus a bit for HQ elements, or even short staffed units, figure 2/3's of what you just said.

I'm aware modern regiments are larger than Battletech ones. I'm just saying that he's not using numbers that are accurate for even the Battletech universe (4 squads of 7=platoon, 3 platoons=company, 3 companies=battalion, 3 battalions + supporting units=regiment).

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-04-28 06:20pm

From the Imperial Sourcebook about Governours:

"The Governors
Planetary governors are Imperial agents who represent the Empire’s authority on a single world. Usually that representation extends to an entire system, giving him jurisdiction of all the planets orbiting a single star. A governor has command of all Imperial troops garrisoned on his planets."

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2006-04-28 06:21pm

I personally loved when they try their last cop-out: IT WASN'T HAPPENING AT THE SAME TIME.

Is he trying to say they ROTATE troops from world to world to make them seem more numerous?

Yes. See the Palpo-pokemon post by me. It's their last cop-out (3 mil jump from here to there) and it is extremely funny.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-04-28 06:24pm

IT WASN'T HAPPENING AT THE SAME TIME.

Funny then, how the ROTS novel explicitly has GAR regiments sent to each and every single governor, as well as the GAR being locked in battles and sieges on hundreds of worlds at the same time!

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-28 07:14pm

Anyone with a brain would realise that the troops required to provide Governor security are absolutley trivial compared to the war - even just going by the shit from the movies. Oh well.

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-04-28 09:30pm

Master of Ossus wrote:The thread has, apparently, been deleted. That's judging from the fact that it no longer appears on the Lit Forum.

Well, I'm a bit nonplussed about this whole thing. I like TF.N|LF too. But... eh.

I'm too tired to really think. I'll mull this over tomorrow.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2006-04-28 09:47pm

It seems like this new mod over there has gone edit and delete happy. Perhaps the mod-buttons have gotten to his head?

GeneralTacticus · Post by **GeneralTacticus** » 2006-04-28 10:20pm

Actually, I think the most important bit about the governors' security forces is that it demolishes the idea that Palpatine was deliberately keeping troop numbers low and "manageable" for the Clone Wars, then massively ramped them up when he implemented the Empire. Even before he declared the Empire, he was using them to secure his rule over the galaxy; the idea that he settled for 3 million and ran a gigantic, galaxy-wide con-job to conceal it when it made it harder for him to achieve his own goals is ludicrous. As, for that matter, is the idea that he declared the Empire before he had the mechanisms in place to enforce it; what exactly is his army of three million going to do if a significant part of the galaxy refuses to accept his rule? Is he just going to assume that everyone loves him and no-one will make a move until he's ready to squash them?