"Nemesis" Slammed in AP Review ( minor spoilers)

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2002-12-12 01:49pm

Just read the following review on Yahoo! News, and I'm now convinced that I don't need to waste money on Nemesis. Maybe when it comes out on video...

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2& ... k__nemesis

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-12 02:12pm

Doesn't suprise me at all. Nemesis so wants to be tWoK but isn't.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-12-12 02:23pm

As every Trekker knows, Federation starships lack the firepower of Romulan or Klingon war birds, so a captain must use his wits if he's drawn into battle with one of them.

My fav quote from the review. It made me stop and actually roll my eyes.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2002-12-12 02:25pm

Gee, a bad review for a ST movie. Why am I not surprised. Anything with the hands of B&B usually sucks.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-12-12 02:26pm

That was funny because it shows a lack of actually understanding the subject or really ever watching the show. I mean a cursory look of the TNG series practically enforces the whole "The Enterprise is the bad-ass of the Federation and can take on anything but uber-weapons of unknown cultures".

Kirk used his brain not only because it was needed but because that's what smart commanders do...jeez the review was basically"It good action flick but not to ST2 or ST6 levels...thus it sucks."

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-12-12 03:44pm

Well I'm Spending my money on LOTR The Two Towers. We can all say goodby to Star Trek

Its kind of sad really

Engineer_00 · Post by **Engineer_00** » 2002-12-12 03:49pm

Nemesis isn't from the hands of B&B (although I agree about Braga being a bad Trek writer). Nemesis was written by the same guy who wrote "Gladiator", John Logan. As usual, Berman helped produce it, but no Braga this time (Phew!).

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2002-12-12 03:54pm

Well, I'll go see it even if you people aren't. I'll judge for myself.

Just saw Solaris which was OK, certainly don't regret seeing it. It had some interest ideas; just suprized to see a pro-athiest movie, wasn't expecting that theme... but it's still going to bomb big time if it hasn't already.

Laird · Post by **Laird** » 2002-12-12 03:56pm

Zoink wrote:Well, I'll go see it even if you people aren't. I'll judge for myself.

Just saw Solaris which was OK, certainly don't regret seeing it. It had some interest ideas; just suprized to see a pro-athiest movie, wasn't expecting that theme... but it's still going to bomb big time if it hasn't already.

Yah what he said.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2002-12-12 03:56pm

I'm "celebrating" Nemesis this weekend by seeing AOTC again on IMAX.

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2002-12-12 04:16pm

Darth Servo wrote:I'm "celebrating" Nemesis this weekend by seeing AOTC again on IMAX.

How is AOTC on IMAX? I saw "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon" in IMAX, and well, it was too big. Maybe if the thing had been done with a telephoto lens, but as is, large section of the screen were out of focus, and you kind of had to look around to see what they they were focused on. It was kinda cool to see it that big, but the smaller screen was better.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-12-12 05:49pm

I keep it as a policy to at least take into consideration more than ONE REVIEW, before I judge a movie. If I didn't then I would have never have seen AOTC.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-12-12 05:57pm

Kamakazie Sith: Wait you lost me you make out as if that would have been a bad thing

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2002-12-12 05:58pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:I keep it as a policy to at least take into consideration more than ONE REVIEW, before I judge a movie. If I didn't then I would have never have seen AOTC.

Well, I also saw the theatrical trailer when I saw "Die Another Day", and it didn't do anything to encourage me to pay full price to see "Nemesis".

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-12-12 07:11pm

TheDarkling wrote:Kamakazie Sith: Wait you lost me you make out as if that would have been a bad thing

LOL

AOTC didn't change my outlook on life but I didn't go into the movie expecting that.

Same thing for Nemesis.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-12-12 07:14pm

Ted C wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:I keep it as a policy to at least take into consideration more than ONE REVIEW, before I judge a movie. If I didn't then I would have never have seen AOTC.
Well, I also saw the theatrical trailer when I saw "Die Another Day", and it didn't do anything to encourage me to pay full price to see "Nemesis".

I can understand why you feel this way. B&B have delivered nothing but crap, I'm almost expecting to go into Nemesis and see one of their infamous cop outs.....to spending money. Like a decent battle (Generations, FC, Insurrection) it was obvious they didn't want to spend money.....especially in Generations!

However, I figure I would give John Logan a chance.....he is supposed to be a fan, like us.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2002-12-12 07:48pm

From this review and the trailers I've seen the past two weeks, essentially this movie is going to be about three Big Action scenes stitched together by long passages of boring pretentiousness.

"This movie SO wants to be TWOK but isn't" as somebody said. I'm certain that this was the objective but it was doomed from the outset. We have neither the emotional investment or history embodied in Picard's EvilClone™ Skippy that we had with KHAAANNN! Without those elements, you really cannot access the personal dimension to this conflict that the viewer could grasp readily with TWOK. Berman Braga might try to float the lame argument that there were viewers who went to TWOK the first time who never saw TOS, but they would have been in the minority, a very tiny minority of the audience which did turn out. TWOK traded on the Trek legacy quite consciously, and the media push for that movie definitely highlighted the links between that movie and the plot to "Space Seed".

As for the Remans, they're just Orcs/Vampires/Borg/whatevers with different style leather. Cannon fodder to be blown away by the legion to fuel the action scenes.

Basically, this movie strikes me as confused as to what its goals are as a movie. It is clearly going to lean on its Big Action sequences to pull in the mass audience; proving that Berman Braga haven't a clue as to what Star Trek's strengths are and unimaginatively thinking that Big Action is the sure key to boxoffice gold. Big Action fails 50% of the time.

My guess about this film's performance is that it will make most of its money opening weekend, but that its audience will be tepid even then. Unless it has a $100 million opening, it will get slaughtered between The Two Towers and The Chamber Of Secrets. If bad buzz comes out even before the opening, it will never make back its capital costs domestically. It will probably realise a weak profitability on the international market, but it may wind up being the weakest performing Trek film in history. It's going to struggle for every dollar it gets before it withdraws with a whimper.

What a way for a franchise to die.

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2002-12-12 08:58pm

I think one of the truly sad things is that the Remans sem to have potential to be true bad guys of the future but they are gonna be cut off at the head in this movie (I assume). Just judging by small parts of the novelisation which I have read they have so much potential to be extremely awesome long-term villans but in typical fashion for recent Trek they will be sent into the sidelight, never used again, or totally forgotten.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-12-12 09:07pm

CmdrWilkens wrote:I think one of the truly sad things is that the Remans sem to have potential to be true bad guys of the future but they are gonna be cut off at the head in this movie (I assume). Just judging by small parts of the novelisation which I have read they have so much potential to be extremely awesome long-term villans but in typical fashion for recent Trek they will be sent into the sidelight, never used again, or totally forgotten.

Where would they be used?

The only things left are

1. Additional movies
2. Enterprise
3. Books
4. A new series set after TNG

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2002-12-12 09:20pm

assuming the Trek franchise struggles on long enough for them to make it onto Enterprise... Paramount's been looking at the ratings with a very critical eye.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-12 09:22pm

Here's another review from FilmCritic.com, also bad.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2002-12-12 09:34pm

I have to wonder about the writing of this movie. After all, John Logan wrote a fairly decent version of The Time Machine, he wrote a rather good script for Gladiator.

So why does this movie seem such utter crap? It's as if Logan had a partial lobotomy before getting the assignment for this film. Either that, or the script's been monkeyed around with, which I'd bet on. Or Berman Braga simply outlined what they wanted to see, and Logan wrote to the assignment.

Either way, from the advanced draft I read at Filmjerk.com and which seems to conform to the plot details I've heard of and the trailers, this movie is a mess; plot elements and what seems to be three different stories kludged together very sloppily. Has all the earmarks of something written by committee.

All that remains to be seen is just how embarassing this movie will turn out to be in the end. So far, it seems that every reviewer who hasn't been paid off by Paramount is trashing Nemesis.

Not a good sign, that.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-12 09:37pm

Patrick Degan wrote:I have to wonder about the writing of this movie. After all, John Logan wrote a fairly decent version of The Time Machine, he wrote a rather good script for Gladiator.

Ah, but he's a self-professed Trekkie fanboy. We have seen many examples of Trekkie fanboys who may seem reasonable when discussing matters other than Trek, but appear to suffer crippling loss of brain function as soon as the subject of Trek arises.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-12-12 09:37pm

If Wesley is there, why doesn't he just save everybody with his Traveller powers? Oh wait, bad writing.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2002-12-12 09:39pm

that reminds me... Rocky VI is in the works, apparently

*shudders*