Hearts of Iron II: Doomsday

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2006-05-06 01:26pm

Did someone play it already?

I quite enjoyed "Cuban Missile Crisis", but it had many shortages and was a RTT, not an RTS anyway.

However, here we have, as I understand, a real HoI strategy centered primarily around the real "Operation Unthinkable".

What did you think of it, if you played it already? Was it same as HoI II, or did it have serious balance issues like HoI I?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2006-05-06 01:59pm

Crap. First second of the "Doomsday Campaign" Russia DOWs the US

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2006-05-06 02:32pm

It's been cited as a weakness of Doomsday, that the Soviet Union wants to take over the world, and wanks to take it over now. The fact of the matter is that Paradox games kick ass, but only after patch 1.2 or 1.3. Currently, Doomsday is at 1.1

The problem, I think, is that Paradox can't properly beta test to save their lives. The fans, on the other hand, are uber leet at it. Not only do they find problems, they go into the game's files and find what's causing the bug.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2006-05-06 02:57pm

Crap. First second of the "Doomsday Campaign" Russia DOWs the US

As I imagined. Well, not worth it then. I knew HoI means balance issues ahoy, always (get world domination with an african state)... but I imagined that after two games they'd progress further. HoI II didn't have as much bull in it as HoI I.

Adrian Laguna

The fact of the matter is that Paradox games kick ass, but only after patch 1.2 or 1.3. Currently, Doomsday is at 1.1

I know. HoI I can't be helped however, it's just too bad with balance.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2006-05-06 05:33pm

Stas Bush wrote:As I imagined. Well, not worth it then. I knew HoI means balance issues ahoy, always (get world domination with an african state)... but I imagined that after two games they'd progress further. HoI II didn't have as much bull in it as HoI I.

If you have the second HoI then you might want to avoid Doomsday for several months, wait until it is completely patched. I don't have it, and do not feel like waiting, so I'm hopefully getting it either today or tomorrow.

The balance issue is interesting. In Europa Universalis it's possible to take over the world with any country, but you get hundreds of years to do it. Whereas HoI only lasts a decade, so getting the balance between fun factor and realism right is much harder. For example, real life Germany never stood a chance in hell of surviving against a determined United States and Great Britain. Even if the Soviet Union fell - which might not have happened even if the Wehrmacht took Moscow, Stalingrad, and Leningrad - I think the Germans still would have been fucked. But in Hearts of Iron you can win as Germany, hell you can win as Germany even if you take control of it in June 1944.

BTW - Aren't there only two African states in HoI? Liberia (US puppet) and Ethiopia (about to be crushed by Italy).

I know. HoI I can't be helped however, it's just too bad with balance.

Yeah, the first Hearts of Iron was an unfortunate mistake.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2006-05-07 04:43am

Adrian Laguna wrote:For example, real life Germany never stood a chance in hell of surviving against a determined United States and Great Britain. Even if the Soviet Union fell - which might not have happened even if the Wehrmacht took Moscow, Stalingrad, and Leningrad - I think the Germans still would have been fucked. But in Hearts of Iron you can win as Germany, hell you can win as Germany even if you take control of it in June 1944.

It's not really a balance issue, though - the US is still an industrial behemoth compared to Germany - as much as poor AI. Repelling invasions from the AI, for example, is trivial, since it never lands in force, and doesn't look for alternative landing sites, always using the same spot or two.

Hence why when I played tech-cheated Uber Poland against Great Britain, all it took for me to defend the entire coast of France were two divisions near Calais, which could easily smash any landing troops - since the AI would never land elsewhere, and always landed one division, which got smashed.

There are also some problems with the game mechanics themselves - for example, a stack is always destroyed when surrounded, even if the "encirclement" really means that it's in the middle of provinces that are nominally "yours", with zero troops in them. Partisans are a joke - a few divisions are really all that you need to keep France under your boots as Germany, and even that isn't strictly necessary. Also, you can instantly unload heavy equipment from dozens of divisions in small, shithole ports - like the former example of Uber Poland, I landed 24 divisions near Newcastle, first taking the province with paratroopers, and three hours later - wham, I have armor, artillery and whatnot onshore, ready to fight and rampage all the way to London. Things like these make it trivial to exploit game mechanics in your favor.

Adrian Laguna wrote:BTW - Aren't there only two African states in HoI? Liberia (US puppet) and Ethiopia (about to be crushed by Italy).

There's also Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Djibouti and South Africa. And despite everything, I don't think it's really possible to take over the world with them in HoI II, mostly due to the fact your tech teams are going to suck.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2006-05-07 06:16am

MKSheppard wrote:Crap. First second of the "Doomsday Campaign" Russia DOWs the US

Yeah, that shit me too.

When the game becomes more stable, or the CORE people bring out a stable mod for it, then I'll play it. There's definite promise there though.

For now, I'm still hoked on HoI2. I've spent the last few days kicking arses as Nationalist China.