Happiness

l33telboi · Post by **l33telboi** » 2006-05-06 10:20am

I'd like to know what people here think about something i've been pondering lately, seeing as how you've been debating stuff like this before.

The subject is happiness and where it comes from.

I've seen alot of people who pity others living in poor countries, wondering how they could ever be happy the way they live. But then richer countries tend to have higher suicide rates and depressed people. This seems to be a little contradictive.

So what is it that really makes people happy?

One explanation i've thought about is that happiness is relative to your own situation in life, that owning things that make your life easier and more comftereable only 'raises the bar' so to speak, and in the end you're no happier then a street urchin somewhere in Africa who has entirely different sets of highs and lows. So living as the richest man on earth or a slave dosen't really matter (at least not in regards to your happiness).

But this still leaves alot of problems.

The other theory i have is that all happiness derives from social status and everything that has to do with it. That would explain why wealth isn't really a guarantee for happiness, since you having lots of money is moot if your neighbour has more.

This would also explain why people living in modern day societies are worse off then those that live in poor parts of the world. A modern person comes into contact with more people that are better of then him, and the gap can sometimes be quite huge, making him feel worse about himself. And then there's the TV and all the other media making the entire world seem alot smaller.

When kids in poor parts of the world would have to contend with those living in the same village as them, modern kids have to basically compete with those that are at the top of the food chain, namely celebrities, politicians, athletes or whoever they consider to be the ones you should aspire to be.

Well in any case, i apologise for the confusing english and hope i got what i was trying to say across.

And now i'd like to know what other people think about where happiness comes from. Am i completely wrong about it? Have you heard of any interesting studies? Stuff like that.

R. U. Serious · Post by **R. U. Serious** » 2006-05-06 11:28am

Two studies come to mind:

"How to not buy happiness"
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... i_n9394954

"Money doesn’t buy happiness – except when disability strikes, U-M study suggests"
http://www.med.umich.edu/opm/newspage/2005/money.htm

Sofia · Post by **Sofia** » 2006-05-06 01:42pm

Happiness, like love, is very tricky to pin down, which is probably why it's hard to study. When people say "I'm a happy person" they usually mean that their default is a sort of agreeable contentment. There's elevation, elation, inspiration, and triumph, but those feelings are short-lived because they usually depend on an event.

The effects and the novelty of the event will wear off eventually, even if it's something lasting like coming into an inheritance, so it doesn't surprise me that studies have shown that money can't buy happiness.

Humor and humility probably have a lot to do with it. This is all just anecdotal, but it's been my experience that people who don't take themselves very seriously are less easily annoyed or aggravated. Fundies, of any sort, aren't happy because the world will never live up to their absurd expectations.

I'm always a little bemused when fundies wonder how atheists can be happy, faced with the gaping maw of eternity and our insignificance in it all, because that very realization is what keeps me going, that nothing that happens in our lifetime matters very much. This isn't apathy, per se, but the knowledge that new stars and planets will be born after ours is destroyed is a comforting thought.

Zero · Post by **Zero** » 2006-05-06 01:50pm

For me, individually, happiness is in being able to accept my own limitations and conditions. Money's only helpful when there's something I want that I have to buy, but usually, having it won't bring happiness, it just allieviates the annoyance of wanting something I don't have. Accepting what I have as enough makes me happier; having more things only makes me feel less cheated. That's it for me. I have no idea how it works for others.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2006-05-06 01:59pm

The Buddhists have this one down fairly well, if nothing else. Happiness is simply lack of or minimising suffering. Trying to add any other qualifiers to it would make things needlessly complicated, since they're all relatively temporary situations.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2006-05-06 03:31pm

Fundies, of any sort, aren't happy because the world will never live up to their absurd expectations.

However, those who are actively religious are shown to be happier than those who are not. It's easy to take solace if you have a big, omnipotent God on your side.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2006-05-06 03:52pm

wolveraptor wrote:
Fundies, of any sort, aren't happy because the world will never live up to their absurd expectations.
However, those who are actively religious are shown to be happier than those who are not. It's easy to take solace if you have a big, omnipotent God on your side.

According to what source?

The_Nice_Guy · Post by **The_Nice_Guy** » 2006-05-06 03:55pm

Hope is another variable in the equation. It's easier to be happy(or less unhappy) if you're confident that tomorrow will be better.

And of course, the ultimate in hope is that a nice place in heaven is reserved even after death. That's why so many people prefer religion. It really makes them happier.

TWG

l33telboi · Post by **l33telboi** » 2006-05-06 08:22pm

General Zod wrote:
wolveraptor wrote:
Fundies, of any sort, aren't happy because the world will never live up to their absurd expectations.
However, those who are actively religious are shown to be happier than those who are not. It's easy to take solace if you have a big, omnipotent God on your side.
According to what source?

Actually i saw a documentary on this as well. People who are very religious seem to be happier then the average person. But then why wouldn't they be? They 'know' they are loved by the most powerful beign in the universe and they 'know' that they are justified in everything they think, do and believe.

What i really found interesting was that according to the same documentary, religious people are not only happier, but also healthier then average people.

The placebo effect really is king.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-05-07 12:18am

Since the same belief that makes them 'happy' makes them discriminatory, irrational, bigoted and insular, it's hardly a good thing. I bet being a Nazi party member made you happier too.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2006-05-07 12:21am

Happiness is a warm gun.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-05-07 12:30am

l33telboi wrote:
General Zod wrote:According to what source?
Actually i saw a documentary on this as well.

That is not a source. A source has a name, and describes a methodology which can be examined for flaws.

TimothyC · Post by **TimothyC** » 2006-05-07 12:41am

Happiness for me is (in order):

1. Remembering to take my Prozac.
2. Getting to see my SO.
3. Getting to go to Church (Say what you will, but this is my list, and I only have time to go twice a week).
4. Not having Problems with my parents.
5. A Full Stomach, a Nice bed, and fresh air and water (in large ammounts).
6. A Job I love (N/A at the present time).
7. Remembering my Concerta (ADHD Medication).
8. Having my work be well received.
9. Helping others.
10. Listening to music as I drift off to sleep.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2006-05-07 01:06am

Happiness is getting used to disappointment.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2006-05-07 01:11am

Happiness is the bills paid, a morning you can sleep in on, and your wife curled up next to you.

Stile · Post by **Stile** » 2006-05-07 01:25am

Happiness is job security.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-05-07 02:56am

Anecdotes are not definitions.

l33telboi · Post by **l33telboi** » 2006-05-07 03:24am

Darth Wong wrote:
l33telboi wrote:
General Zod wrote:According to what source?
Actually i saw a documentary on this as well.
That is not a source. A source has a name, and describes a methodology which can be examined for flaws.

Yes well, i see to many documentarys to remember the names of them all. Suffice to say that they had performed alot of tests and crap to get their information. Treat it as a mere curiosity if nothing else.

They even went so far as to say that whether you're religious or not can be determined from the brain. And then they showed this by creating 'religious experiences' by stimulation certain parts of the brain on people. Some people said it was like god had come down to touch them, others said they felt nothing. The more religious had more activity in that part of the brain on a regular basis, the ones that weren't, didn't.

But again, i can't recall the name of that documentary.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2006-05-07 09:42am

I recall seeing the study in a Reader's Digest magazine (yes, I know, they're trash: I just didn't know that at the time). Still, I'll try to find a source viewable by everyone here.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-05-07 09:48am

l33telboi wrote:But again, i can't recall the name of that documentary.

Which means that its method of measuring "happiness" is unknown and its conclusions are useless for the purpose of establishing the validity of this line of thought.

Zero · Post by **Zero** » 2006-05-07 11:20am

Whether it's true or not, I could see why religious people may be happier on average than atheists. To them, everything that occurs in the universe has some purpose to it, and there's an omnipotent parental figure to tell them right from wrong, and to protect them from the world. They always have to fear misbehaving for fear of punishment from said being, but they also know that no matter how bad they fuck up, their omnipotent parental figure will forgive them. When they die, they get to spend eternity with their eternal father figure and his angels in absolute peace and harmony.

Atheists, conversely, believe in a universe that will act in accordance with strict laws and rules, and that doesn't have the ability to give a damn about us at all. We're here to look after ourselves, and each other, and there is no guarantee of forgiveness if we fuck up. We're responsible for our own actions, and their consequences, and there's no guarantee that anyone will be able to help us. When our life ends, it ends, and that's all.

This doesn't mean the atheist life is less fulfilling, just that there's less comfort in a universe devoid of care and concern than there is in one where you believe someone's looking out for you. I can understand why believing your actions actually have consequences that matter might be a bit more stressing than believing that your god will take care of it all.

SWPIGWANG · Post by **SWPIGWANG** » 2006-05-07 11:50am

I don't know what makes a person happy as in the long term.

[whining]

However I know what makes a person unhappy, and I'm not too surprised at the results. THE CIVILIZATION RESTS ON YOUR UNHAPPINESS.

Just think how dangerous happiness and contendedness is. The consumer economy would crash and burn, so would various fear mongering or guilt tripping political groups and media and the rest. As desirable happiness is, it is probably not allowed.

Happiness is a life time payment plan, costing only $2000 dollars a month for the basic package, and preimum packages are avaible.

If happiness is empowerment, the modern life is what it is not. The eleborate structure and the sheer scale of the modern world means the individual is probably no more powerful with respect to his environment than most other eras.

If happiness is connectivity, the modern pace of living prevents that from happening. People only have so much time, and one trades depth of relationships for width in many cases.

----------------------------------------------------------
Religiousity is not necessarily a path of happiness, as if one look at the Buddists for example, many of them are escaping the pain and perhaps the pointlessness feeling about life. I would not call that happiness.

Christainty is a pretty "happy" religion though, and that partly explains its popularity. The outlook of the world is optimistic and just. The purpose and requirements of life is explained. The Church have also become an powerful source of social connectivity (living in some fund's house made me learn just how easy it is to link up everywhere in the world thanks to the chruch and the small world effect that crossover into every area) and a service of some sorts.

If human beings have fixed or quesi-fixed needs, there should be a model of behaviour and thought that works. Some religion have it packaged and all one has to do is believe. The natural selection of religion probably means the current system is quite refined at satisfying its believers. (unless a monopoly happens, like the cathotic chruch in dark ages) Religion is ulitmately a meme that people carry because its useful somehow.

The truth is that the truth doesn't really matter when refering to happiness anyways.

[/end whining]

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-05-07 11:55am

Zero132132 wrote:Whether it's true or not, I could see why religious people may be happier on average than atheists. To them, everything that occurs in the universe has some purpose to it, and there's an omnipotent parental figure to tell them right from wrong, and to protect them from the world. They always have to fear misbehaving for fear of punishment from said being, but they also know that no matter how bad they fuck up, their omnipotent parental figure will forgive them. When they die, they get to spend eternity with their eternal father figure and his angels in absolute peace and harmony.

That's the theory. The reality is that they're terrified, perhaps even if it's only at the subconscious level, that something is wrong with this plan. Why do you think they lash out so aggressively at dissenters? That kind of violent aggression and need to persecute and harm others does not come from happiness and confidence, I assure you.

Do you really think happy people will sit around thinking "we have to stop those goddamned gays from ruining America and bringing down the wrath of God?"

Zero · Post by **Zero** » 2006-05-07 12:40pm

Everything you said applies to strict fundamentalists. They're position is obviously one of absolute fear. However, many non-fundie christians aren't quite that horrified of the world. They don't actively proselytize, most of the time, and the non-fundies aren't so horrified about homosexuals, or the wrath of God. Not all people with faith are fundies.

defanatic · Post by **defanatic** » 2006-05-08 03:13am

l33telboi wrote:
General Zod wrote:
wolveraptor wrote:However, those who are actively religious are shown to be happier than those who are not. It's easy to take solace if you have a big, omnipotent God on your side.
According to what source?
Actually i saw a documentary on this as well. People who are very religious seem to be happier then the average person. But then why wouldn't they be? They 'know' they are loved by the most powerful beign in the universe and they 'know' that they are justified in everything they think, do and believe.

What i really found interesting was that according to the same documentary, religious people are not only happier, but also healthier then average people.

The placebo effect really is king.

The average person is religious. How can a religious person be happier than the average person?