Video Card Power requirement

Melkor · Post by **Melkor** » 2006-05-07 12:15am

I'm looking to upgrade my video card and I've found a candidate with the level of performance I'm looking for in this card. The only snag is that the system requirements list a 350W power supply. Mine is 300. My system details are below and I was just curious as to the chances that my computer could run this card to its full potential. What's everyone think?

CPU Type Intel Pentium 4 540, 3200 MHz (16 x 200)
Motherboard Name Intel Augsburg D915GAG (2 PCI, 1 PCI-E x1, 1 PCI-E x16, 4 DDR DIMM, Audio, Video, LAN)
Motherboard Chipset Intel Grantsdale-G i915G
System Memory 2048 MB (PC3200 DDR SDRAM)
111 GB HD

Audio Adapter Creative SB0240 Audigy 2 Platinum Sound Card
1 DVDROm
1 DVD Burner
Floppy Disk Drive

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-05-07 01:21am

Wattage isn't nearly so important as the maximum amperage which your power supply can deliver at 12V.

Open up your case and look at your power supply, there should be a sticker which lists how many amps the power supply can deliver at various voltages, and tell us what the rating is for 12V.

Also tell us what brand it is.

Melkor · Post by **Melkor** » 2006-05-07 01:40am

Thanks for the help, the brand is Sun Cheer. 12V is listed twice. Next to yellow it has +12 18A, next to blue it has -12 .8A

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-05-07 01:50am

Ouch.

Going from the SH/SC Power Supply Guide...

Processor - 10.6A
Motherboard - 1A
Hard drive - 2A
Optical drives - 2A (1A each)

That puts you at just over 15A on the 12V.

The Guide doesn't have a power rating specific to the 7600GT, but it could potentially bring your system up to the maximum rating of your power supply. Not only would this normally be undesirable anyway (it's always good to keep a bit of a margin) but considering that your power supply is not a major name-brand, I'm inclined to suspect that your power supply probably isn't quite up to the task.

This isn't to say that it won't power on or that it won't work right off the bat, but there'd definitely be more chance for system instability.

I strongly recommend upgrading your power supply.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2006-05-07 04:20am

The power supply is likely to be fine until you decide to play a game. At which point the computer will crash. Get a new power supply.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-05-07 04:42am

I've never heard of 'Sun Cheer', and to be honest, they sound a bit shitty (on a par with the 'Micro Star' motherboard I had a few years ago

). You'd probably be okay with a quality 300w supply, but not with that one.

Go and buy a 450w high quality supply (look at Hiper - I'm very happy with mine from them), which will be stable, and will last you many years.

I'm guessing the PC wasn't a self-build? If not, you need to be carefull about custom form-factors used by some larger builders: Dell do this, and plugging a non-standard motherboard or power supply into the Dell supplied partner will result in explosions without modifying of the PSU pinning.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-05-07 05:38am

Pezzoni wrote:I've never heard of 'Sun Cheer', and to be honest, they sound a bit shitty (on a par with the 'Micro Star' motherboard I had a few years ago ). You'd probably be okay with a quality 300w supply, but not with that one.

Go and buy a 450w high quality supply (look at Hiper - I'm very happy with mine from them), which will be stable, and will last you many years.

I'm guessing the PC wasn't a self-build? If not, you need to be carefull about custom form-factors used by some larger builders: Dell do this, and plugging a non-standard motherboard or power supply into the Dell supplied partner will result in explosions without modifying of the PSU pinning.

I think Dell stopped doing that, actually, although it's worth looking into just in case.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-05-07 05:39am

They could well have done; I havn't looked into it since I first discovered about it a good few years ago

Definately a good idea to check anyway though - Just in case!

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2006-05-07 11:02am

I'd recommend getting this Sparkle 400watt PSU.
At around $50 shipped, it's a steal for such a high quality unit.

Newegg's site doesn't list the current, but it's 30A max on the +3.3v line, 28A max on the 5v line, 18A on the 12v1 line and 18A on the 12v2 line.

Melkor · Post by **Melkor** » 2006-05-07 12:10pm

The machine was put together by a local outfit. I've had no problems with it and it used to run an nvidia 6600 just fine. The only reason I'm upgrading is because the fan on that one died and I'm using an old 5500 now. Is there any way to tell exactly how much spare amps i have to work with on my machine? I'm using Everest Home edition to look at the sensor values and I see this:

Voltage Values
CPU Core 1.31 V
+1.5 V 1.48 V
+3.3 V 3.32 V
+5 V 5.18 V
+12 V 12.13 V

Is that what I'm looking for?

Also how hard would is it swap out the power supplies considering I've never done anything more than switch out video cards.

P.S. Thanks for all the advice.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2006-05-07 12:18pm

They look OK.
What you're really looking for is stability under load.
If the 12v, 3.3v, and 5v lines fluctuate wildly, you've got problems.

Don't worry too much if the other ones go back and forth as that's your mobo's voltage regulators converting the PSU's voltages to the proper settings for the CPU, memory, and chipset.

And replacing one is fairly easy.
Just disconnect all of the power leads and undo the 4 screws at the back of the unit that fasten it to the case and it'll slide right out.

Melkor · Post by **Melkor** » 2006-05-07 12:52pm

The values were the same with BF2 running as they were idle at the desktop. Between 11.88 and 12.06. Is this really a true reflection though of the Amps being used?

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2006-05-07 01:08pm

I'm not an expert, but my A64 system voltages with a Radeon X800 Pro, 3 optical drives and 3 hard drives installed are steady as a rock under load at 3.31v, 5v, and 12.03v.
However my PSU is an Antec TrueControl 550 that I used a multimeter on to dial in the voltages, so your mileage may vary.

The fluctuation doesn't look that bad, but if you add a more powerhungry video card you might draw down too much power and make the system unstable.
I'd go ahead and spend the $50 on the Sparkle because they're high quality affordably priced units (my TrueControl was over $100) and if you're wanting a decent gaming rig, the PSU isn't the place to cut corners on as inadequate power to today's video cards and processors leads to nagging instability issues.

Added:

Is your case a micro ATX with a mATX power supply?
If so a standard ATX probably won't fit.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-05-07 02:38pm

Melkor wrote:The machine was put together by a local outfit. I've had no problems with it and it used to run an nvidia 6600 just fine. The only reason I'm upgrading is because the fan on that one died and I'm using an old 5500 now. Is there any way to tell exactly how much spare amps i have to work with on my machine?

I already calculated for you that you're probably using at least 15 amps at 12V (not counting the video card), which theoretically gives you three left to play with on your current power supply.

However, as your power supply is not a name I recognize and therefore not one I trust, it's entirely possible that it isn't quite up to delivering on it's promises; and furthermore, it's not a good idea to run the power supply to the limit constantly.

Melkor · Post by **Melkor** » 2006-05-07 07:30pm

Its not a mini, the box says medium ATX. How do I tell whether the supply you recommended is compatible with my mobo and devices. Are connections standardized? Also are there detailed instructions included for what gets connected to what or are the connectors all the same and each device that needs power just gets plugged in to any available one?

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2006-05-07 09:04pm

It's a little hard to explain, so I created some visual aids.

Here's your motherboard with the 2 power connections that have to be made labeled and circled:

This plug goes into the '24 pin ATX power socket':

The plug labeled '12 volt auxiliary power connector' goes into the 12 volt auxiliary power socket on the mobo:

The rest of it should be pretty much self-explanatory.

Caution:
You will notice that there's a socket next to the '12v ATX auxiliary power connector' on the mobo that will take one of the 'Optical and IDE Hard Drive Connector' plugs.
That's to supply more power to the video card if your PSU doesn't have the 24 pin ATX connector.
The Sparkle unit I recommend does have the 24 pin connector, so DO NOT connect a plug to that socket.

Melkor · Post by **Melkor** » 2006-05-07 10:02pm

haha, thanks so much for the awesome visual aids. I appreciate all the help.

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2006-05-08 12:35am

Antec Truepower 550W PSU

This will work on 20pin and 24pin ATX motherboards. Better get it while the rebate is good.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-05-08 12:49am

Vertigo1 wrote:Antec Truepower 550W PSU

This will work on 20pin and 24pin ATX motherboards. Better get it while the rebate is good.

That is also overkill.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2006-05-08 01:05am

Uraniun235 wrote:
Vertigo1 wrote:Antec Truepower 550W PSU

This will work on 20pin and 24pin ATX motherboards. Better get it while the rebate is good.
That is also overkill.

I'd recommend something like that if Melkor was in the habit (like I am) of constantly upgrading parts and essentially putting a new system in the same case every year or two, as it has plenty of room for growth and is Nvidia SLI approved.
My TrueControl 550 is very much overkill for my current A64 system, but I also bought it for the ability to fine tune the voltages and the manual casefan speed controller.
My system is very quiet and cool when I'm not playing CPU and GPU intensive games.

However going by his posts, he isn't that type of hobbyist and like U235 said, it's overkill for his system.

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2006-05-08 01:10am

Uraniun235 wrote:
Vertigo1 wrote:Antec Truepower 550W PSU

This will work on 20pin and 24pin ATX motherboards. Better get it while the rebate is good.
That is also overkill.

No, this is overkill. That 550 will run with that system he posted, and future upgrades for some time. Remember, the point of upgrading is not to suit your current needs, but to keep you going for years if possible.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2006-05-08 01:18am

The strange thing about that Antec is that both of the 12v lines only have 1 amp more capacity each than the Sparkle 400.
The Antec would give you a little more breathing room on the 3.3v line and a lot more power (40A vs 28A) on the 5v line.
It's also SLI ready.

Unless Melkor plans on constantly putting new components in his current case and wants to eventually run an SLI system, the Antec isn't really suitable for his needs.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-05-08 01:26am

3.3 and 5 volt power is rarely an issue. 12 volt is almost always the limiting factor.

In fact, the only time I can remember otherwise is when someone came in asking for suggestions on a power supply that could shove some obscene amount of power over the 3.3v because he claimed he had some monster server whose power supply had failed.

What does "SLI ready" mean?

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2006-05-08 01:28am

Uraniun235 wrote:What does "SLI ready" mean?

It means it supports the power connection used by PCI-E cards.

Uraniun235 wrote:If he upgrades his system, his power needs may well go down, considering that that Prescott processor of his draws over ten amps on the 12v.

Yes, and power needs for video cards keep going UP. Why do you think they have the need for external power connections as well as whats provided by the slot?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-05-08 01:28am

Vertigo1 wrote:No, this is overkill. That 550 will run with that system he posted, and future upgrades for some time. Remember, the point of upgrading is not to suit your current needs, but to keep you going for years if possible.

If he upgrades his system, his power needs may well go down, considering that that Prescott processor of his draws over ten amps on the 12v.