I don't believe you. Post a video/mp3 of you rapping.Rogue 9 wrote:Rap isn't music. Any idiot can talk over a drum beat.
Need help with a school project- what do you think of rap?
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Some rap is retarded, not because of the lyrics but because the singer is bad. Rap, like any music, requires a skilled artist to work. Just like pop, rock, classical, etc.
Kanye West, 50 Cent, Emenim (before all he did was whine ) and Jay Z are good examples of good rap. Olde stuff like Run DMC, as well, are very good. Biggie Smalls was funny as hell, cause he made interesting pop culture references, P. Diddy is good as well...as long as he has someone to remix of course. I think one day i'll hear a remix of Movin' On Up from the Jeffersons with him going "Uh...UHHH! Yeah!" like he usually does.
One thing i like about rap, and i think most people who dont listen to much dont get this point, is that its not really taken seriously except by a handful of artists. Most think its a kind of joke, and go to extremes in their lyrics cause it's shock-humor. Like the early seasons of South Park, (before it started whining too ) it tries to piss you off for the hope you'll think its funny and exagerated. There are, of course, rappers who take this seriously, though those arent too good, obviously. But like most music, the industry is flooded by thousands of idiots who needed to stay home instead of play, like any other music industry.
I'm not a 'fan' of any particular music, in and of itself, because i find that for every one good artist in any given genre, there are thousands who suck. You have four hundred rappers, i promise five to ten will be cool, the rest will suck. The same i would say about any music genre. So really it depends on the individual song, cause sometimes an artist makes one good song then the rest on the album suck, but usually certain ones are more hit than miss on a frequent basis.
And completely agree its annoying when people play rap music at the loudest possible volume that they can. I cant understand why. Like you wouldnt hear it, IN YOUR CAR, with the windows up if it werent on fucking 11 or something. Try having that roll by your window at 2:00AM when you're trying to sleep.
Kanye West, 50 Cent, Emenim (before all he did was whine ) and Jay Z are good examples of good rap. Olde stuff like Run DMC, as well, are very good. Biggie Smalls was funny as hell, cause he made interesting pop culture references, P. Diddy is good as well...as long as he has someone to remix of course. I think one day i'll hear a remix of Movin' On Up from the Jeffersons with him going "Uh...UHHH! Yeah!" like he usually does.
One thing i like about rap, and i think most people who dont listen to much dont get this point, is that its not really taken seriously except by a handful of artists. Most think its a kind of joke, and go to extremes in their lyrics cause it's shock-humor. Like the early seasons of South Park, (before it started whining too ) it tries to piss you off for the hope you'll think its funny and exagerated. There are, of course, rappers who take this seriously, though those arent too good, obviously. But like most music, the industry is flooded by thousands of idiots who needed to stay home instead of play, like any other music industry.
I'm not a 'fan' of any particular music, in and of itself, because i find that for every one good artist in any given genre, there are thousands who suck. You have four hundred rappers, i promise five to ten will be cool, the rest will suck. The same i would say about any music genre. So really it depends on the individual song, cause sometimes an artist makes one good song then the rest on the album suck, but usually certain ones are more hit than miss on a frequent basis.
And completely agree its annoying when people play rap music at the loudest possible volume that they can. I cant understand why. Like you wouldnt hear it, IN YOUR CAR, with the windows up if it werent on fucking 11 or something. Try having that roll by your window at 2:00AM when you're trying to sleep.
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I refuse to so degrade myself.Rye wrote:I don't believe you. Post a video/mp3 of you rapping.Rogue 9 wrote:Rap isn't music. Any idiot can talk over a drum beat.
It's Rogue, not Rouge!
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Corrected for spelling so bad it made my eyes hurt (and I can’t spell very well)Tranan wrote:Rap music isn't music at all. Its a different kind of art. in the same way that painting and sculpting are different, both are art but (they are not the same.
Now I think in my beat post on the evolution of rap from beat poets, to folk, through punk, and finally into an urban punk/heavy metal style genre (don’t believe me look who the early rap musicians liked (angry punk bands, Aerosmith, Hendrix, Misfits, Sex Pistols etc) Also sampling predates rap, people in blues and jazz would barrow other people’s cords and rhythms all the time.
The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
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Well i think rap is music, weather people dont like it or whtever doesnt make it 'not music'.
I think heavy metal is pure shit, but its no less music than classical.
I think people make the argument it isnt music, because they dont like it themselves. Cause you can say the same argument about literally any kind of music.
Edit: MOST of the time, they dont like it themselves, some may consider it poetry or classify it in some other way. Again thats all subjective, like most entertainment.
I think heavy metal is pure shit, but its no less music than classical.
I think people make the argument it isnt music, because they dont like it themselves. Cause you can say the same argument about literally any kind of music.
Edit: MOST of the time, they dont like it themselves, some may consider it poetry or classify it in some other way. Again thats all subjective, like most entertainment.
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People are pretentious and therefore assert things they don't like aren't true scotsmen. Take Rouge for example, it's so easy, but he's too much of a pussy to go ahead and show it. If I said some weenie classic rock was easy or pussified, I could show some of the notes that make up the song, or some weenie lyrics, compare them to say, Pantera or Slayer or Nile and prove my point.Rakuseki wrote:How exactly is rap not music? I understand the vast majority of you loathe rap, but that's neither here nor there.
These people don't know what music is, or they do, but they don't want to acknowledge it. I'll acknowledge Linkin Park and Evanescence are music, metal even, even though it's simplistic and rubbish.As a rap artist myself, I don't understand where people get off saying such nonsense. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't music.
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Except that "weenie" is subjective, whereas "lack of melody" is not. Rap may meet the formal definition of music, but it is definitely missing certain major components that more complex music has. It is undeniably a simplified form of music which therefore requires less talent.Rye wrote:People are pretentious and therefore assert things they don't like aren't true scotsmen. Take Rouge for example, it's so easy, but he's too much of a pussy to go ahead and show it. If I said some weenie classic rock was easy or pussified, I could show some of the notes that make up the song, or some weenie lyrics, compare them to say, Pantera or Slayer or Nile and prove my point.
Of course, you could say that about rock music vs classical, and it would be absolutely true in that case as well. Classical music requires more talent than rock music. But in that particular case, classical music is also missing something that rock music has, ie- lyrics and the emotional impact that they can deliver.
In any case, there's nothing with pointing out that category B is missing a component which category A has.
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Well yeah, I pointed out musical complexity in my post. Linkin Park and Evansecence mainly play the same chord over and over, but they're still music, metal, even, though they're ridiculously less complex than the technical metal bands like Nile or the symphonic baroque metal arrangements of Therion.Darth Wong wrote: Except that "weenie" is subjective, whereas "lack of melody" is not. Rap may meet the formal definition of music, but it is definitely missing certain major components that more complex music has. It is undeniably a simplified form of music which therefore requires less talent.
I wouldn't disagree with that, but "it's not music" as a statement is just ill informed and pretentious. I'd imagine very few people that dislike rap would, when it came on the radio, suddenly go, "turn that awful urban poetry set to a rhythm OFF!"In any case, there's nothing with pointing out that category B is missing a component which category A has.
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I can't agree with you on that at all. Melody is simply a rhytmically organized sequence of tones - if you're going to tell me what I rhyme over a beat doesn't meet that definition, I'ma have to say you're full of it.Except that "weenie" is subjective, whereas "lack of melody" is not. Rap may meet the formal definition of music, but it is definitely missing certain major components that more complex music has. It is undeniably a simplified form of music which therefore requires less talent.
Rap isn't simplified at all. Every skill it takes to create pretty much every other form of music exists in the creation of rap. It doesn't require less talent, it simply requires different talents. Granted, you don't appreciate those particular talents, but once again, it seems like you're confusing your dislike of the genre for it being a 'simplified form of music which therefore requires less talent.'
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No, you're full of it. It's not a melody if that "sequence of tones" is all the same tone.Rakuseki wrote:I can't agree with you on that at all. Melody is simply a rhytmically organized sequence of tones - if you're going to tell me what I rhyme over a beat doesn't meet that definition, I'ma have to say you're full of it.
Utter bullshit. To argue that it takes no more talent to perform and orchestrate the 1812 Overture than a "50 Cent" rap song is absolute idiocy.Rap isn't simplified at all. Every skill it takes to create pretty much every other form of music exists in the creation of rap.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
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"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
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Ok - so when I start spitting from bar one it's the same EXACT tone from when I end at bar sixteen? Be serious for a second here. Granted, when you're rapping as opposed to singing, you aren't hitting defined notes like a singer would (like a B-flat), but the pitch of your voice fluctates as you say different words in different ways to make your words 'flow' over the beat. But to say that when I rap I'm being completely monotone is ridiculous and false.
You're a damned smart motherfucker, Wong, but I think you're reaching on this particular argument.
You're a damned smart motherfucker, Wong, but I think you're reaching on this particular argument.
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So now you're seriously arguing that an arranged sequence of notes is no different than the natural slight changes in tone that accompany speech patterns? By that definition, I melodically yelled at that other driver to go fuck himself yesterday on the highway.Rakuseki wrote:Ok - so when I start spitting from bar one it's the same EXACT tone from when I end at bar sixteen? Be serious for a second here. Granted, when you're rapping as opposed to singing, you aren't hitting defined notes like a singer would (like a B-flat), but the pitch of your voice fluctates as you say different words in different ways to make your words 'flow' over the beat. But to say that when I rap I'm being completely monotone is ridiculous and false.
Speak for yourself. You have been reduced to arguing that slight changes in tone during natural speech are the same as real melody with arranged pre-set notes, and you haven't even tried to defend your idiotic claim that it takes no more talent or complexity to arrange "The 1812 Overture" as opposed to "Ice Ice Baby".You're a damned smart motherfucker, Wong, but I think you're reaching on this particular argument.
Last edited by Darth Wong on 2006-05-07 11:59am, edited 1 time in total.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
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http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
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"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
Really now? As a producer who composes his own beats, the same exact skills it took to do something like the 1812 Overture and then make the beat for say....."In Da Club" (a 50 Cent song) are required. Now technical terms, the 1812 Overture is undoubtedly harder (at least for me since that isn't my chosen form of music; hip-hop & r&b are)), but the core skills are the same.Utter bullshit. To argue that it takes no more talent to perform and orchestrate the 1812 Overture than a "50 Cent" rap song is absolute idiocy.
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Rakuseki wrote:Really now? As a producer who composes his own beats, the same exact skills it took to do something like the 1812 Overture and then make the beat for say....."In Da Club" (a 50 Cent song) are required. Now technical terms, the 1812 Overture is undoubtedly harder (at least for me since that isn't my chosen form of music; hip-hop & r&b are)), but the core skills are the same.Utter bullshit. To argue that it takes no more talent to perform and orchestrate the 1812 Overture than a "50 Cent" rap song is absolute idiocy.
Seriously, that's the funniest thing I've heard all week. You're honestly claiming that composing a rhythmic beat requires the same skills as composing a complex layered arrangement of an entire orchestra?
Last edited by Darth Wong on 2006-05-07 12:01pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
Except the whole argument that an emcee is talking when he's rapping doesn't hold water. Listen to any emcee talk normally and then listen to his rap voice - they are almost always vastly different; so much so that you won't even recognize an emcee's regular voice if you've never heard them speak. When you rap, you turn your voice into an instrument. You're not singing per se, but you're not talking either.So now you're seriously arguing that an arranged sequence of notes is no different than the natural slight changes in tone that accompany speech patterns? By that definition, I melodically yelled at that other driver to go fuck himself yesterday on the highway.
Yes, depending on the beat you're trying to make. Now if you're just gonna make a drum track, throw a bass line over it, and call it a beat, then of course it's not gonna stand up to the 1812 Overture, but take say the instrumentals producer Timbaland has produced over the years - incredibly complex in their organization. A shining example are the beats he made for Bubba Sparxxx on the Deliverance album, specifically the title track and the song "Warrant." Of course, you've likely never heard these tracks, so what I'm saying probably means very little since you have no frame of refrence.Darth Wong wrote:Rakuseki wrote:Really now? As a producer who composes his own beats, the same exact skills it took to do something like the 1812 Overture and then make the beat for say....."In Da Club" (a 50 Cent song) are required. Now technical terms, the 1812 Overture is undoubtedly harder (at least for me since that isn't my chosen form of music; hip-hop & r&b are)), but the core skills are the same.Utter bullshit. To argue that it takes no more talent to perform and orchestrate the 1812 Overture than a "50 Cent" rap song is absolute idiocy.
Seriously, that's the funniest thing I've heard all week. You're honestly claiming that composing a rhythmic beat requires the same skills as composing a complex layered arrangement of an entire orchestra?
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What's this? Pink can't back up his shit? Color me stunned.Rogue 9 wrote:I refuse to so degrade myself.Rye wrote:I don't believe you. Post a video/mp3 of you rapping.Rogue 9 wrote:Rap isn't music. Any idiot can talk over a drum beat.
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Fantastic lyricist - there's a reason his songs have been some of the best covers ever done. As a performer he's not the best and listening to him is an acquired taste. Not really the kind of music you can listen to while you're driving to work or whatever; there's nothing much in the music that's terribly engaging and you need to really be able to absorb the lyrics to enjoy it. Highway 61 Revisited does totally kick ass, though.also for ou rap haters what do you think of bob dylan,
They may have been new, exciting, and novel in their time, but their music has aged about as well as...well, Johnny Rotten, I guess.or the sex pistols?
What does Robert Johnson have to do with anything?secondarilly Robert Johnson could perform guitar stunts that many people would have a hard time duplicating.
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