Hybrids vulnerable to bad genes?

[B5B7]

The peoples of India, Pakistan, Iran, etc are Caucasian by "racial" classification. The Aryan peoples were a people of India/Iran, so it is funny that the Nazis latched onto that term.

[RedImperator]

Who the hell considers South Asians white? Also, as I pointed out earlier, the fact that the frequencies of certain alleles are much higher in certain demographics than others, we might yet find that there is some loose scientific backing to the idea that populations in certain areas have slightly diverged to form the misnomer that is a race.

They're considered Caucasians. I have no idea why, but they are, but it neatly illustrates the absurdity of the concept of race.

Second, I know what you were saying earlier, and for the second time, while it's possible it could happen in H. Sapiens, to date it has not. There is NO scientific basis for race. Period. Dark skin and increased frequency of sickle cell anemia do not make Africans a race any more than dark hair and increased frequency of Tay-Sachs makes Jews a race.

[wolveraptor]

Why not? The only Jews who began to develop an increased susceptibility to that disease were ones who lived in insular communities in eastern Europe. It's not a trait common to Israeli Jews, or any one who just converts to the religion. In my opinion, it can be said that eastern European Jews or Africans constitute loose genetic groupings. Is that so unreasonable?

As a side note, the original Indian inhabitants, Dravidians, were by no means considered white. It was only after the Aryan invasions from the area dividing Russia and Europe that India and surrounding countries had significant Caucasian populations.

[Nephtys]

Why not? The only Jews who began to develop an increased susceptibility to that disease were ones who lived in insular communities in eastern Europe. It's not a trait common to Israeli Jews, or any one who just converts to the religion. In my opinion, it can be said that eastern European Jews or Africans constitute loose genetic groupings. Is that so unreasonable?

As a side note, the original Indian inhabitants, Dravidians, were by no means considered white. It was only after the Aryan invasions from the area dividing Russia and Europe that India and surrounding countries had significant Caucasian populations.

Em. What are you using to try and define 'race'? It's just a prevalance of certain traits, not anything new. It's like saying because a Toyota Camry is blue, it's a different kind of car than a black Camry.

[RedImperator]

Why not? The only Jews who began to develop an increased susceptibility to that disease were ones who lived in insular communities in eastern Europe. It's not a trait common to Israeli Jews, or any one who just converts to the religion. In my opinion, it can be said that eastern European Jews or Africans constitute loose genetic groupings. Is that so unreasonable?

Are you seriously defining race as sharing a few genetic commonalities? By that logic, there are probably tens of thousands of races on Earth. And at any rate, your original argument wasn't "loose genetic grouping", it was that there are, in fact, distinct races, which is not understood by anyone, scientist or layman, to mean "a loose grouping of people with a handful of common genetic characteristics".

Africans do not constitute a "race". Period. Neither do Caucasians, neither do Asians, neither do American or Australian Aborigines. Yes, Africans as a whole share a handful of genetic adaptations, primarily to climate. They also have a vast host of features in which they vary widely from each other, but share commonalities with populations in other "races". "Racial" differences only account for about 15% of all human genetic diversity (which is, by the way, extremely limited compared to other mammal populations, including other primates). The other 85% is within the so-called races. I'm having a hard time figuring out how a category that only accounts for 15% of diversity constitutes any kind of useful biological classification.

Africans, by the way, are a particularly poor choice for a race, as there's as much genetic diversity amongst Africans as there is amongst the population of the entire rest of the world (a result of humans being in Africa far longer than anywhere else, and the groups that migrated out to populate the rest of the world constituing a limited sample of human genetic diversity). If our neo-Nazi chick on the other board were to point to skin color and sickle cell anemia as proof Africans constitute a race, you could counter with any number of features which vary widely among African populations (height, head shape, facial structure, susceptability to other diseases, just about anything else you like except skin color and susceptability to sickle cell anemia).

As a side note, the original Indian inhabitants, Dravidians, were by no means considered white. It was only after the Aryan invasions from the area dividing Russia and Europe that India and surrounding countries had significant Caucasian populations.

Which is entirely irrevelant to my point, because modern South Asian populations, minus groups like the Dravidians, are considered Caucasian, even though they're dark skinned.

[Spetulhu]

The girl's about gotten herself on the automatic "ignore" by most users. She just keeps on spamming with more drivel when something is ripped apart, and doesn't even admit that her wishful thinking has no basis in reality. I'm disappointed at never getting to know where she found the idea that a mixed-race child would be more vulnerable to bad combinations of genes.

Now she's found the American Reneissance and Occidental Quarterly to help her. Because, as we all know, the true white race is under attack. It will soon cease to exist if we permit other peoples to live in the same countries with us.

[Shroom Man 777]

So, is the girl advocating the inbred ubermensch hillbilly with blonde eyes and buck teeth?

[Spetulhu]

No, she thinks we Scandinavians are allowed to breed with others of suitably Northern European type. As long as they're pale it's OK. That should leave room for finding a mate other than your cousin.

[wolveraptor]

*snip*

I concede the point. I guess I did diverge from my original statement about race into something about genetic groupings.

[Nephtys]

So, is the girl advocating the inbred ubermensch hillbilly with blonde eyes and buck teeth?

Precisely why genetic similarity is hazardous for a population's health. Despite how amusing they may be.

[Surlethe]

Precisely why genetic similarity is hazardous for a population's health. Despite how amusing they may be.

I was reading the National Geographic article on love today (it was the cover story for an edition published a few months ago), and it mentioned women find the scent of men who have very different phenotypes more attractive than the scent of men who have similar phenotypes. Apparently, genetic diversity is hardwired into us at an unconscious level.

[Winston Blake]

*snip*

I concede the point. I guess I did diverge from my original statement about race into something about genetic groupings.

I find many people trip up on this area. Yes, there are loose genetic groupings of traits, but no, these groupings are not distinct or divergent enough to be considered biological subspecies'. But people can still be considered black or white just as easily as they can be considered tall or short. Modern biology has shown that the real difference between racial classifications is so small as to be trivial and that past ideas about race were wildly exaggerated.

Although if you think about it, height is a better basis for anti-miscegenation than skin colour. IIRC small women have trouble giving birth to large babies. If somebody wants to segregate races to avoid some mythical physical incompatibility, i bet they'd think twice if you suggested making an official law against Tall and Short people marrying.

If anybody cares, this is an African albino brother and sister (and presumably their parents). So this is basically what black people look like just with different skin and hair colour:

[wolveraptor]

biological subspecies'

When I made the claim that there exist in the world distinct races, I never went so far as to say that these races are as different as dogs and wolves. It's a little irritating to see the term "race" connoted, by default, with the term "subspecies", especially since the latter really exists.

[Spetulhu]

I was reading the National Geographic article on love today (it was the cover story for an edition published a few months ago), and it mentioned women find the scent of men who have very different phenotypes more attractive than the scent of men who have similar phenotypes. Apparently, genetic diversity is hardwired into us at an unconscious level.

Would it be possible to find that article online? Or failing that, could you tell me what number of the magazine it was in?

[Wyrm]

If anybody cares, this is an African albino brother and sister (and presumably their parents). So this is basically what black people look like just with different skin and hair colour:

<image kersnip>

They're not technically what would be called "albino". Albinism is the lack of any pigmentation whatsoever (except haemoglobin), which means that they would not have dark irises nor have whites of their eyes. Those are caused by pigmentation mechanisms that are knocked out in true albinism.

I agree that the two do have very different skin pigmentation than their parents.

[Winston Blake]

If anybody cares, this is an African albino brother and sister (and presumably their parents). So this is basically what black people look like just with different skin and hair colour:
<image kersnip>

They're not technically what would be called "albino". Albinism is the lack of any pigmentation whatsoever (except haemoglobin), which means that they would not have dark irises nor have whites of their eyes. Those are caused by pigmentation mechanisms that are knocked out in true albinism.

I just had a look on wikipedia, and i think they could have "OCA2"-type albinism:

People with OCA2 usually have fair skin but not as white as OCA1, and light to golden or reddish blonde hair, and usually blue eyes. Affected people of African decent usually have a different phenotype (appearance): Yellow hair, rather white skin and blue, gray or hazel eyes.

[Wyrm]

I just had a look on wikipedia, and i think they could have "OCA2"-type albinism:

People with OCA2 usually have fair skin but not as white as OCA1, and light to golden or reddish blonde hair, and usually blue eyes. Affected people of African decent usually have a different phenotype (appearance): Yellow hair, rather white skin and blue, gray or hazel eyes.

Damn you, Wikipedia! Damn you to HELLL!!!! (dissolves into green goo)

[Spetulhu]

Yippee! Psycho girl actually managed to post a link that explains where she got the "hybrid effect" from! Those in the know call it Heterosis. Opponents of mixing pick out the effect 'outbreeding depression' and say it will turn out bad if we mix. Not that it helps any, as those advocating more racial mixing pick the opposite effect of 'hybrid vigor' as an argument FOR it.

How long would people look at her here if it took her five days to actually get a name for one of her main arguments?