All of Anime vs the Principality of Zan!

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-12-12 11:16pm

*Bzzzzt!* Incorrect. Akira is a separate individual. Tetsuo is to Akira as a blackbelt is to a grandmaster.

oops I forgot. Akira was there first(didnt he have better control over his abilities as well?)

Cthulhu-chan · Post by **Cthulhu-chan** » 2002-12-12 11:24pm

Well, aside from accidentally nuking Tokyo (and Neo-Tokyo, going by the manga), yes he did.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-12 11:47pm

The destruction of Tokyo and Neo-Tokyo were simply the side effect of Akira creating/moving to his own universe.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-12-12 11:51pm

Forget using Belldandy and Co. Since it's all anime that means all of AMG! Which means screw it all and just use God.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-12 11:53pm

Include Eva and they're equally fucked.

SWPIGWANG · Post by **SWPIGWANG** » 2002-12-13 12:06am

Doraemon-verse humans......

lets just say DEUX EX MACHINA (or pull all possible any crap out as needed)

Oh and Ideon blasts the galaxy to hell with IDEON CANNON.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-12-13 08:18am

I have a question.... can I use a character in anime as he will get in the manga of the series? The anime is the accuratly done version of the manga... but only follows the first part of the storyline and ends with him going on to the second part. By the end of Angel Sanctuary.... he kills god.

Also we have the Dragon-God from project Ako battle greyside/blueside. It was totaly immuned to any attack thrown at it (and alot was thrown at it). It went into the center point of the multiverse and almost suceeded in destroying/recreating the multiverse to fit its creators wishes.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-12-13 03:53pm

What's the Imperator (that his name?) made out of?

Sentient, incorporeal essence.

The Lord of Nightmares reigns supreme over MANY universes. Does the Imperator also have power over multiple dimensions?

He controls half the universe. As in, half of all things created. The other half is held by his counterpart.

Lord of Nightmares for the win. Manifest full self in PoZ universe. Bye bye, PoZ.

'Manifest' implies physical form. 100 billion disruptor bolts > physical form.

The destruction of Tokyo and Neo-Tokyo were simply the side effect of Akira creating/moving to his own universe.

Seems impressive, but, remember, thousands of solar systems are destroyed each day in the PoZverse.

Forget using Belldandy and Co. Since it's all anime that means all of AMG! Which means screw it all and just use God.

Are these AMG! people human?

Oh and Ideon blasts the galaxy to hell with IDEON CANNON.

12 galaxies have been utterly destroyed in the last 5,000 years. The War has been going on for over fifty million years. That means that thousands of galaxies have been destroyed during The War. Galaxy-destroying is nothing new.

I have a question.... can I use a character in anime as he will get in the manga of the series? The anime is the accuratly done version of the manga... but only follows the first part of the storyline and ends with him going on to the second part. By the end of Angel Sanctuary.... he kills god.

Also we have the Dragon-God from project Ako battle greyside/blueside. It was totaly immuned to any attack thrown at it (and alot was thrown at it). It went into the center point of the multiverse and almost suceeded in destroying/recreating the multiverse to fit its creators wishes.

That's tough, but remember, if it is made of or uses matter or energy is it helpless. Energy cannot get past warpshields and if it's made of matter/energy it can be destroyed by disruptors.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2002-12-13 04:11pm

HemlockGrey wrote:
What's the Imperator (that his name?) made out of?
Sentient, incorporeal essence.

The Lord of Nightmares reigns supreme over MANY universes. Does the Imperator also have power over multiple dimensions?
He controls half the universe. As in, half of all things created. The other half is held by his counterpart.

Then He's outmatched. The LoN controls all of at least four universes.

Lord of Nightmares for the win. Manifest full self in PoZ universe. Bye bye, PoZ.
'Manifest' implies physical form. 100 billion disruptor bolts > physical form.

As in: Her essence enters the world, it goes bye-bye. Much like your Imperator above, only worse.

The destruction of Tokyo and Neo-Tokyo were simply the side effect of Akira creating/moving to his own universe.
Seems impressive, but, remember, thousands of solar systems are destroyed each day in the PoZverse.

And? At least six people off the top of my head can do that in seconds.

Forget using Belldandy and Co. Since it's all anime that means all of AMG! Which means screw it all and just use God.
Are these AMG! people human?

No, that's part of the package of being a Goddess.

And yes, while they have corporeal beings, if you destroy them, they'll just appear behind you three seconds later, and say "Now what was that supposed to accomplish?" Their bodies are merely projections for their essences.

Oh and Ideon blasts the galaxy to hell with IDEON CANNON.
12 galaxies have been utterly destroyed in the last 5,000 years. The War has been going on for over fifty million years. That means that thousands of galaxies have been destroyed during The War. Galaxy-destroying is nothing new.

That's it? Brolly, Buu, and TV Washu can beat that.

I have a question.... can I use a character in anime as he will get in the manga of the series? The anime is the accuratly done version of the manga... but only follows the first part of the storyline and ends with him going on to the second part. By the end of Angel Sanctuary.... he kills god.

Also we have the Dragon-God from project Ako battle greyside/blueside. It was totaly immuned to any attack thrown at it (and alot was thrown at it). It went into the center point of the multiverse and almost suceeded in destroying/recreating the multiverse to fit its creators wishes.
That's tough, but remember, if it is made of or uses matter or energy is it helpless. Energy cannot get past warpshields and if it's made of matter/energy it can be destroyed by disruptors.

[/quote]

Sound like a poor man's Light Hawk Wings.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-13 04:14pm

Sounds like some local comic writer needs to change his pants often...

Either that or they have a major inferiority complex.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-12-13 04:27pm

Then He's outmatched. The LoN controls all of at least four universes.

There are no 'multiple dimensions' or 'multiple universes'. The Universe is all creation, period, so depending on how large the LoN' verses are the Imperator may hold more.

But it doesn't matter. The LoN can't do anything to the Imperator and I've yet to see how he'll kill untold millions of warships without using energy, or withstand billions of disruptor shots that erase matter and energy.

As in: Her essence enters the world, it goes bye-bye. Much like your Imperator above, only worse.

How? Explosion of energy? If so, the Principality weathers it easily and rebuilds the stars, planets, so forth.

And? At least six people off the top of my head can do that in seconds.

By destroyed, I mean erased utterly. As in, there is no longer any matter or energy. Can these six people do it without energy, or matter?

No, that's part of the package of being a Goddess.

And yes, while they have corporeal beings, if you destroy them, they'll just appear behind you three seconds later, and say "Now what was that supposed to accomplish?" Their bodies are merely projections for their essences

Then either they are in such a continual state of annhilation that they don't have time to do anything or they duke it out with the Imperator.

That's it? Brolly, Buu, and TV Washu can beat that.

They're from DBZ, correct? If so, they use energy attacks. Using energy attacks against the Principality is a nice way to end up as a crispy corpse.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2002-12-13 04:27pm

Formula for determaning damage when attacking/defending with the Light Hawk Wings.

On defense, take the amount of damage the opponent would have dealt you (call it, X) and multiply it by zero (0). The result (X * 0) is the amount of damage the target actually suffers.

On attack, take the defense of the target (call it Y) and multiply it by zero (0). The result (Y * 0) is the ability of the target to defend against your attack.

LHW are the weapons of the godesses. The second smartest scientist in the universe studying it for around 5,000 years was only able to make a pale imatation, which was barely able to overpower LHWs created by a boy who had never done anything of the sort before. The same boy latrer slices his ship in half by a single blow with a LHW by accident.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2002-12-13 04:33pm

In the AMG-verse, I seem to remember that the the world is like a massive divine computer program run on Yggdrasil. Skuld and Urd from Ah my Goddess are the people who "debug" the program. That sounds like "control all of reality" to me. They can simply "debug" the Principality away.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-12-13 04:34pm

Formula for determaning damage when attacking/defending with the Light Hawk Wings.

On defense, take the amount of damage the opponent would have dealt you (call it, X) and multiply it by zero (0). The result (X * 0) is the amount of damage the target actually suffers.

On attack, take the defense of the target (call it Y) and multiply it by zero (0). The result (Y * 0) is the ability of the target to defend against your attack.

LHW are the weapons of the godesses. The second smartest scientist in the universe studying it for around 5,000 years was only able to make a pale imatation, which was barely able to overpower LHWs created by a boy who had never done anything of the sort before. The same boy latrer slices his ship in half by a single blow with a LHW by accident.

Two possible problems.

1) Disruptors do not cause damage in the typical sense; they do not blow things up, they do not melt it, punch a hole, slice it in half, vaporize it, etc. They simply cause it to cease to be. It is possible that this will slip under the equation.

2) Principality ships travel by warping. However, during combat, they are constantly in a state of warp; never staying in the same place for longer than a few microseconds. However, this is travel, not a defensive sysem, so the LHW would only have a couple of microseconds to lock and hit.

2b) The LHW would have to destroy the Principality ship in one shot- otherwise, it will instantly repair itself, and the quote about 'slicing the ship in a single blow' does not imply that the LHW have the capability. There is a limit to how much the Principality ship can repair itself, but it has enough 'living energy' stored in warpspace to recreate it hundreds of times from even a few molecules.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-12-13 04:35pm

In the AMG-verse, I seem to remember that the the world is like a massive divine computer program run on Yggdrasil. Skuld and Urd from Ah my Goddess are the people who "debug" the program. That sounds like "control all of reality" to me. They can simply "debug" the Principality away.

But the PoZverse is not the AMG-verse, and is thus not run by this computer.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-12-13 04:36pm

Hmm a universe that easily ownz anime.
Although it's an extreme wankfest I have to say
YAY!

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-12-13 04:37pm

HemlockGrey wrote:
In the AMG-verse, I seem to remember that the the world is like a massive divine computer program run on Yggdrasil. Skuld and Urd from Ah my Goddess are the people who "debug" the program. That sounds like "control all of reality" to me. They can simply "debug" the Principality away.
But the PoZverse is not the AMG-verse, and is thus not run by this computer.

That's like saying Trekverse doesn't have the Force, or Middle Earth can't support Netherese magic.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2002-12-13 04:39pm

The "debug" part is simply a representation of their power, that they have reality-warping powers which enable them to "debug" reality. One might also say that since the AMG guys are in a seperate universe, the PoV-verse cannot affect them.

Which then begs the question, where are they fighting? Are they all transported into a "Neutral" universe, are they fighting in a universe which is a amalagram of all the existing universes, or are they fighting in the PoZ's home turf?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-13 04:42pm

I still say include Eva and your automatically fucked.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2002-12-13 04:46pm

And you still haven't told me how you're going to counter a being which is the sum total of the minds, knowledge, unconscious, and latent psychic power of all of humanity.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2002-12-13 04:47pm

HemlockGrey wrote:
Then He's outmatched. The LoN controls all of at least four universes.
There are no 'multiple dimensions' or 'multiple universes'. The Universe is all creation, period, so depending on how large the LoN' verses are the Imperator may hold more.

But it doesn't matter. The LoN can't do anything to the Imperator and I've yet to see how he'll kill untold millions of warships without using energy, or withstand billions of disruptor shots that erase matter and energy.

Wrong. "Universe." By definition, means singular. The Lord of Nightmares has a Quadraverse inside of her.

And as shown in the vision of the Giga Slave going wrong, each of the Worlds in L-sama are full-szed, multi-galactic universes.

As in: Her essence enters the world, it goes bye-bye. Much like your Imperator above, only worse.
How? Explosion of energy? If so, the Principality weathers it easily and rebuilds the stars, planets, so forth.

Nope, it was basically erased from existance in the vision.

And? At least six people off the top of my head can do that in seconds.
By destroyed, I mean erased utterly. As in, there is no longer any matter or energy. Can these six people do it without energy, or matter?

Depends on the person.

No, that's part of the package of being a Goddess.

And yes, while they have corporeal beings, if you destroy them, they'll just appear behind you three seconds later, and say "Now what was that supposed to accomplish?" Their bodies are merely projections for their essences

Then either they are in such a continual state of annhilation that they don't have time to do anything or they duke it out with the Imperator.

Actually, they're just unleashed(or eliminated) the Bugs your technology is creating(Depending on how you want to look at it). Welcome to Mayhem.

The Prime Necromancer · Post by **The Prime Necromancer** » 2002-12-13 05:17pm

Hey guys, new guy here.

I'm a long time lurker, and this thread particularly caught my attention. Once I read the description of the Principality, I realized this was quickly going to become a rather subjective interuniversal debate on whose tech/abilities works the way they're supposed to.

As I'm sure you know, all vs. debates suffer from this to a certain extent, but anime (and this universe, it seems) is particularly subject to it. There's weapons and magic powers like the Light Hawk Wings that are totally not subject to physical laws and are the ultimate weapon/defense in their universe. So how the hell to we compare that to another universe's physics-ignoring weapon/defense?

Anyway, the description of the Imperator doesn't sound particularly great, if he only rules half the universe. Valgaav/Darkstar/Volfied from Slayers planned to destroy the universe and remake it without the conflict between the Gods and the Mazoku. And he's *way* below LoN. And, he/they are made out of spirit, not matter or energy, so it's dubious as to whether the Principalities disruptors would work. Skuld, from AMG created a weapon capable of destroying the universe in the manga, and she ain't even close to say, Belldandy. And like, someone said, they're not really corporeal either. It's all very subjective.

My two cents.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-12-13 05:31pm

[quote="HemlockGrey]

I have a question.... can I use a character in anime as he will get in the manga of the series? The anime is the accuratly done version of the manga... but only follows the first part of the storyline and ends with him going on to the second part. By the end of Angel Sanctuary.... he kills god.

Also we have the Dragon-God from project Ako battle greyside/blueside. It was totaly immuned to any attack thrown at it (and alot was thrown at it). It went into the center point of the multiverse and almost suceeded in destroying/recreating the multiverse to fit its creators wishes.

That's tough, but remember, if it is made of or uses matter or energy is it helpless. Energy cannot get past warpshields and if it's made of matter/energy it can be destroyed by disruptors.[/quote]

Well, I was considering the first on to skip fighting the Zan and teaming back up with holy hermit to kick the imperators ass. They did it once before.

As for the DragonGod... normal matter and energy fine... but you are dealing with an entie made up a phyic/magical powers... normal phyics do not apply. The DG has shown simarly effects of your warpshields... nothing affected it at all. Its attacks seemed to be energy but as said we are dealing with a reality warping being.

And I was thinking it mealy goes into the talos sector and rewrites the multiverse without the Imperator or Zan anyway.

And I'm with Yogi on this one... Lain would prob beat the Zan also. She could rewrite the Zan humans to fit her needs. "everbody loves lain!"

And I would also doubt the Imperator's power to defeat a being that could hack reality like a program.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-12-13 06:16pm

That's like saying Trekverse doesn't have the Force, or Middle Earth can't support Netherese magic.

Not really. The Force and Trek are not exclusive. However, having a universe run by a divine computer and a universe run according to a grand experiment designed by an entirely differant God is mutually exclusive.

Which then begs the question, where are they fighting? Are they all transported into a "Neutral" universe, are they fighting in a universe which is a amalagram of all the existing universes, or are they fighting in the PoZ's home turf?

The forces of anime must destroy the Principality of Zan.

And you still haven't told me how you're going to counter a being which is the sum total of the minds, knowledge, unconscious, and latent psychic power of all of humanity.

And what use is psychic power? How will it use it?

Wrong. "Universe." By definition, means singular. The Lord of Nightmares has a Quadraverse inside of her.

And as shown in the vision of the Giga Slave going wrong, each of the Worlds in L-sama are full-szed, multi-galactic universes

Yes. 'Universe'. All creation. Millions of galaxies. Etc. Etc.

Nope, it was basically erased from existance in the vision.

What vision? Did this actually happen?

And, since she is not human, the Imperator will intervene.

Anyway, the description of the Imperator doesn't sound particularly great, if he only rules half the universe. Valgaav/Darkstar/Volfied from Slayers planned to destroy the universe and remake it without the conflict between the Gods and the Mazoku. And he's *way* below LoN. And, he/they are made out of spirit, not matter or energy, so it's dubious as to whether the Principalities disruptors would work. Skuld, from AMG created a weapon capable of destroying the universe in the manga, and she ain't even close to say, Belldandy. And like, someone said, they're not really corporeal either. It's all very subjective.

He doesn't control half the universe because he can't take the other half. He controls half the Universe because The War has been concieved as a grand experiment in the art of humanity; there have been an infinite number of other experiments but this one involves fighting until every single speck of matter and energy is gone. The War will eventually cause the Universe to cease to exist, at which point the Imperator will recreate it and go through another experiment.

The disruptors will not do anything to anything incorporeal. However, keep in mind that the Imperator has created everything, can do whatever the hell he wants, etc. etc. In Christianity, God has existed forever, will never stop existing, and is the root cause of everything. That is the Imperator.

Well, I was considering the first on to skip fighting the Zan and teaming back up with holy hermit to kick the imperators ass. They did it once before.

And they are going to do this how?

And I would also doubt the Imperator's power to defeat a being that could hack reality like a program.

Meet the Manipulators; beings who wield energy and matter like paint. They are the lower caste of workers.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-13 06:20pm

Jesus, this sounds like you're making this shit up.

I'm suprised that this thread has stretched out this far, considering the first time you posted it nobody responded because we didn't give a shit/know what the hell you were talking about.

Wank, wank, wank...