P. Moore: Live is Bigger Innovation Than The Wii Controller

Max · Post by **Max** » 2006-05-08 09:26am

Courtesy of Revogaming http://www.revogaming.net/html/modules/ ... toryid=475

Apparently, he's been hanging around with the Katamari creator.

Microsoft bigwig Peter Moore insults the Wii. Details inside.

In a recent interview with BusinessWeek, Xbox-father Peter Moore let out a turrential stream of pure, unfiltered hatred unto the Wii's wee little head.

"If the controller is different and innovative; fine." Peter says. "But I would say that Xbox Live is the bigger innovation. It depends on your definition of innovative. If having a DVD style controller defines innovation; great. I would argue that talking millions of gamers and connecting them with friends and strangers around the world... I'd call that pretty innovative."

Simply fleshing out a system that's been around for decades is more innovative than totally redefining peoples' perceptions of a videogame controller? Just doesn't seem right.

RevoGaming will keep you updated.

As if the DS isn't enjoying similar online success.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-05-08 09:34am

I would argue that talking millions of gamers and connecting them with friends and strangers around the world... I'd call that pretty innovative.

It would have been, had it not existed for over a decade before the XBOX arrived

Or is he talking about consoles only and conveniently forgetting that the Famicom had a modem, the SNES had BS-X and the 64DD had it's won version of Live ("RandnetDD") ?

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » 2006-05-08 10:03am

frankly, europe never saw real consoles networking before the Dreamcast...

(btw you forgot the bandai network for the pippin and the Saturn's Netlink

)

mizuno · Post by **mizuno** » 2006-05-08 10:42am

Except live is the first one that just plain works and has so many users on it. Personally I see the xbox's greatest innovation is the Marketplace (digital distribution finally done right) which allows small third-party developers a chance to release cheap innovative games (aren't one of those odd little japanese games) that the major developers can't afford to.. Wii on the other hand is hoping that the major developers will create new franchises tailored for its new controller.. even though the trend nowadays is to release games on all the major platforms to maximize profits.. I think that microsoft's approach is the more sensible approach that has already shown it works, I'll wait and see what nintendo has up their sleeves (:

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2006-05-08 11:33am

Yep... That thar intarweb sure is innovative!

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-05-08 11:39am

Yeah, Xbox Live was pretty innovative...

...in 2002.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2006-05-08 12:17pm

Live in 2002 was not what it is now.

Hell, I use Xbox Live for IP telephony, as long as you're both online in some form, you don't have to be playing the same game (which you did on the original), and then there are the game demos, without having to shell out for a poxy magazine with a coverdisc, just start a download before toddling off to work and a new shiny has arrived when you get back, or the Live Arcade, which beat even Nintendo to the post for getting some classics out there (Smash TV!) and has some real cracking games out like Outpost Kaloki (there's a PC version of that as well, it's a space station management sim), or Mutant Storm (from Pom Pom, creators of Space Tripper, the only other Shoot-em-up on the PC after Tyrian).

I'll even go as far as to praise micropayments, because they make more of an incentive for companies to actually produce DLC and keep it up on the web.

At first glance, you might dismisss Live as just being "teh internets", but it's not quite, it's a managed and centralised content delivery system, and there's some good content on it.

Also, the 360 has the whole system of achievements and gamerscore, which leads to much willy-waving amongst those who are inclined towards that kind of thing, and can, for people like me who like to collect shiny things, extend the life of a game by setting challenges I wouldn't otherwise have cared about. (F'rexample, Quake 4 has fun singleplayer ones for going through a whole level only using one weapon, which gives you a slightly different challenge and approach when you're trying to use exclusively grenades or similar.)

Bringing a 3D mouse/tilt controller into the home gaming market is a shiny new thing, to be sure, but so is making a really good connection, communication, and content delivery system that includes every game on the system.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-05-08 01:01pm

Bringing a 3D mouse/tilt controller into the home gaming market is a shiny new thing, to be sure, but so is making a really good connection, communication, and content delivery system that includes every game on the system.

The point is not to bash Live, but to it's hardly a huge innovation when the same things (high score trading, downloadable demos and online content) have been available in some form since the early-nineties.

What was Sega's Genesis version called ? The Sega Channel or something ? Same thing. Xbox does it better, no question there, but it's really just a more mature version of old technology.

The wand, however, is an innovation.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2006-05-08 01:02pm

Live is evolution, not innovation. There's quite a difference.

IMPROVING something is evolution. XBox Live is an improvement of the online play on previous consoles. Faster, better hardware, more storage, stuff like that- that's evolution. It's not innovative. Microsoft put in XBox Live everything people wanted. That's not a bad thing. That's called listening to your fan base. But it's a very different thing- it's not innovative.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-05-08 01:28pm

For me, innovation has to be successful to really be called innovation. For example, I could take a squirrel, put roller skates on it, and sell it as a new eco friendly method of transport. But thats not innovation.

The 'Wii' has been getting worse and worse since I fist heard of it. Originally it was 'Huh. Thats interesting' then it was 'Yeah, thats retarded' now its 'Oh God please make it stop'. There is absolutely no incentive whatsoever for me to buy one of these hellspawn consoles, and every gamer I know is of the same opinion. Those few I'm aware of who are interested are only bothered because its Nintendo, and they love Nintendo. The design is entirely impractical, especially for outside Japan where acceptance of outlandish technological applications is much less widespread.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-05-08 01:32pm

Lazarus wrote:*Breaking wind through his mouth*

The fact that everyone who touches it has to have the wand pried from their hands doesn't mean anything to you ?

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2006-05-08 02:26pm

Find me one, just ONE hands on impression where the person playing did not spectacularly praise it.

Because I can find you at least five, maybe eight hands on impressions where it had to be pried from their hands, and not one negative impression.

And they're all American newspeople. Not Japanese.

That tells you something.

EDIT: I loved the comment in the article.

"Xbox Live is not innovative. Innovation by definition entails creativity. Can anybody point out a single creative aspect of Live? People have been going online for years, Live happens to be the most well-implemented, streamlined online service for consoles. But is it innovative? No. Live represents a natural evolution of online play. It's exactly the same as consoles with greater power. In a generational shift, does a better processor and more RAM make your system more innovative than your last one? Of course not, it only makes it better, but NOT more innovative. Online play with such obviously useful features like voice chat and ranking isnt innovative. Is there a person on this forum that WOULDNT have thought of voice chat and ranking? I applaud Microsoft for a job well done, but if youre trying to call going online with ranking and voice chat innovative, I'm going to be in disagreement.

As for Peter Moore. He's essentially degraded into a fanboy. He refers to the controllers capabilities by its SHAPE: DVD remote shaped. Hey Moore, next time why not compare it to a cable box remote instead. Theyre the same shape, but it's more insulting. You can't even be a dumb*** right.

EDIT: Hey Peter Moore. Why do you have a subwoofer style game system? That's not innovative

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2006-05-08 03:09pm

Bounty wrote:What was Sega's Genesis version called ? The Sega Channel or something ? Same thing. Xbox does it better, no question there, but it's really just a more mature version of old technology.

The wand, however, is an innovation.

Position sensitive 3D mice and gyroscopic tilt sensitive controllers already exist. I've got a Microsoft tilt sensitive controller for fuck's sake. It's not a brand spanking new idea that no-one has ever thought of before, it's just a way of bringing together existing capabilities in a product and supporting them properly with content. Which is what Live is. Bringing together things that people have already been doing, but doing it all in one place and making sure it has support. No-one had done that before, which is why it is innovative. In fact, it took ages for even Sony to even come up with a response to how well structured and featured Live turned out on the 360 beyond "yeah, well, we'll do all that with knobs on".

Lost Soal · Post by **Lost Soal** » 2006-05-08 04:46pm

Lazarus wrote:The design is entirely impractical, especially for outside Japan where acceptance of outlandish technological applications is much less widespread.

And thats the problem with the gaming industry.
Players won't touch these strange looking applications with non-standard capabilities, they think it sounds and looks stupid. And then they complain that games are getting repetative, pradictable and boring. Thats because you can only do so much by using the standard controllers and gaming conventions. And because there is this hesitation, the mainstreme companies won't uinvest in anything different.

Halo, for all its high spec graphics, looks and plays just like any other FPS you can buy, with the Nintendo, theres actually a chance of getting something different and more immersive.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2006-05-08 05:26pm

Lost Soal wrote:Halo, for all its high spec graphics, looks and plays just like any other FPS you can buy, with the Nintendo, theres actually a chance of getting something different and more immersive.

Halo is fuckwads of fun, but I can think of only two things, game-play wise, that separates it from say Perfect Dark. Vehicles, and NPCs that fight along with you. Hell, PD almost had the NPC thing. Everything else is just evolutionary improvement, better graphics, much better AI, more intuitive controls, etc.

Silver Paladin · Post by **Silver Paladin** » 2006-05-08 06:22pm

Bounty wrote:
I would argue that talking millions of gamers and connecting them with friends and strangers around the world... I'd call that pretty innovative.
It would have been, had it not existed for over a decade before the XBOX arrived

Or is he talking about consoles only and conveniently forgetting that the Famicom had a modem, the SNES had BS-X and the 64DD had it's won version of Live ("RandnetDD") ?

If there was only an wildly success online game hub that allowed millions of players to play multiple games and seamlessly communicate with different people playing different games while having online matchmaking support.

Oh yeah, and it can't be called Battle.net.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2006-05-08 06:52pm

Yeah, the XBOX rep was in at work the other day, he went on a pretty long rant about how shitty the PS3 is going to be.

They're just trying to sell their products. The Sony and Nintendo offices are probably filled with people ranting about how shitty the 360 is.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-05-08 07:06pm

Live is a good system - it's far, far better than any of the other attempts, including the PS2 one (central station, or whatever. It's RUBBISH).

However, it's just an arrangement of off-the-shelf software. I would not be called 'innovative' in my deployment of network software in the workplace, so I wouldn't call Live 'innovative'. 'A good idea', 'well implemented', etc, but not 'innovative'.

Frankly, cross-platform games SUCK. They SUCK. If the Revolution has none, I won't miss them. Oh noes, I can't play Madden 2009 or Midnight club 8!

Qwerty 42 · Post by **Qwerty 42** » 2006-05-08 07:51pm

Not to rain on the parade, but wasn't Madden already confirmed for the Revolution?

Anyway, I like the Live system. Not the Live itself so much as, as was mentioned, the individual aspects of it. Marketplace, the cards and such. It really is something that console gaming has never really seen before. However, it's not anything innovative, rather evolutionary. That does not mean to degrade or demean the achivement, but it was the logical progression of the increasingly online gaming community. It took Microsoft to get up and do it, so kudos to them, of course.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2006-05-08 08:35pm

Oh good grief. Are you people seriously talking about Live being innovative by comparing it to previous attempts?

Earth to X-Box Fanboys: Because there are many, many previous iterations of the same ideas, it is inherently not innovative. Is it a better iteration? Yes, you will have no argument there. But none of it is innovative.

And where'd Halo-wanking come from? Allied NPC's, vehicles? Had those in C&C Renegade, thanks. Hell, I think the allied NPC's were in Goldeneye, and it definately had a vehicle or two(Tanks FTW).

So. At the end of the day, the guy at the top is full of shit and is showing his desperation. Instead of sticking with what's true and quite applicable(X-Box Live has a proven track record and is good), he grabs the buzzword and talks out of his ass. I guess he's spooked by the attention Nintendo brilliantly gathered with such an odd name.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-05-08 08:49pm

Qwerty 42 wrote:Not to rain on the parade, but wasn't Madden already confirmed for the Revolution?

Ha! It's Rev-controller specific, so not 'cross platform'. It's the Rev Madden game, not the PS3/X3/Rev Madden game. So there!

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2006-05-08 08:54pm

Stark wrote:
Qwerty 42 wrote:Not to rain on the parade, but wasn't Madden already confirmed for the Revolution?
Ha! It's Rev-controller specific, so not 'cross platform'. It's the Rev Madden game, not the PS3/X3/Rev Madden game. So there!

Do you yell into the Controller and pretend to be Madden until a vein pops?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-05-08 08:57pm

Actually its working title right now is Madden Wii.

That won't be its final title, but I kind of wish it was, because on one level that's one of the best things I've ever heard...

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-05-08 09:15pm

SirNitram wrote:Do you yell into the Controller and pretend to be Madden until a vein pops?

That'd be great - the first sports game that makes you tired! Yelling 'It's good' and shit, hoarsely would really mess with your throat... and you'd be scored on your 'dead-time banter'! Keep the audience interested! Plug sponsored products! Pursue vendettas against players!

Man, you should secure the rights to that idea... it's fantastic.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-05-08 09:50pm

Stark wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Do you yell into the Controller and pretend to be Madden until a vein pops?
That'd be great - the first sports game that makes you tired! Yelling 'It's good' and shit, hoarsely would really mess with your throat... and you'd be scored on your 'dead-time banter'! Keep the audience interested! Plug sponsored products! Pursue vendettas against players!

Man, you should secure the rights to that idea... it's fantastic.

This reminds me of that old Family Guy episode where John Madden gets pissed that Peter was dropping money all over a stadium because it was interrupting a "perfectly good game of FOOTBALL!!!"