RayCav has gone off his rocker apparently...

Falkenhorst · Post by **Falkenhorst** » 2002-12-13 01:25am

Yeah, sad world we live in, ain't it?

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2002-12-13 01:33am

I feel rather responsible for this.

That time that Raycav IMed me, he originally asked me what sort of household items could be used by an agent behind enemy lines who had to commit suicide.

I told him that the best thing to do would be to mix rat poison and Drain-O; I had no idea when he first started talking that it was for anything other than a TGOD-style fanfic (as numerous ASVS people IM for advice in their fictions).

Then he asked me if there was any way to make a poison that could be carried in a container "small enough to bring into a school", and I realized he might be thinking about dramatically killing himself. When probed, that was when he started targeting about the wild ideas that led to me blocking him.

But, that said, he's lying to gain sympathy. There's no way he could have digested that much liquid plumber without ending up in the hospital. There was a reason I (unfortunately) told him that method: It would work.

I just wish I'd realized that he had more serious problems than a somewhat-more-than-twisted fantasy life at the time.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-12-13 01:39am

Yeah, even if he drank half of a small bottle he'd be at the very least hospitalized.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-13 01:40am

Marina, What the Fuck did you tell him that for? He's suicidal nut job and you tell him how to do it?

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2002-12-13 01:55am

Stormbringer wrote:Marina, What the Fuck did you tell him that for? He's suicidal nut job and you tell him how to do it?

At the time I didn't know as much about Raycav as I did now.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-13 02:01am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:Marina, What the Fuck did you tell him that for? He's suicidal nut job and you tell him how to do it?
At the time I didn't know as much about Raycav as I did now.

And it never occurred to you to ask why? Jeez.

Post by **Zaia** » 2002-12-13 02:04am

Stormbringer wrote:
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:Marina, What the Fuck did you tell him that for? He's suicidal nut job and you tell him how to do it?
At the time I didn't know as much about Raycav as I did now.
And it never occurred to you to ask why? Jeez.

I don't know him at all, but would he have actually admitted his reasons if she had asked him?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2002-12-13 02:10am

Yes, he would have. He's nothing if not upfront about his violent urges. He began telling me about kids in his school he wanted to kill, so I blocked him. I'm sorry, but I've got enough shit in my own life to worry about some insecure kid halfway across the nation. I hope he gets help, and I don't wish any hurt on him, but if he commits suicide, I won't lose any sleep.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2002-12-13 02:10am

The Dutchess of Zeon can't be blamed for this. Info like this is discussed around here every day. If Shep started asking about what one would need to blow up a small building, some may wonder, but the info would probably get to him anyway.

Even if she didn't give the info, if he is intent on suicide there is nothing anyone can do short of him being commited and placed on 24 hour observation.

Post by **Coyote** » 2002-12-13 02:15am

RayCav was someone I had no real contact with here; I knew him only by reputation. Nevertheless I could not let him go and off himself without feeling some remorse at the loss of life.

His lunacy is not his fault, it seems to have been imposed on him by a toxic home environment. As much as I hate sounding like some liberalist lawyer out to excuse the world, he is a sort of victim. This won't excuse him, however, if he actually were to hurt somebody though.

However, I think that many of the people here are correct in saying that this is an attention ploy. The chemicals in Liquid Plumber are evil, he'd be in an ICU if he'd lived at all. Still, that doesn't negate the seriousness of the matter.

I think that if we can track his address (anyone got a last name? Any phone number can be had and with that, an address) it would be good if someone nearby can make sure he's not dead; if not, then definitely alert the authorities to do a welfare check.

This is not funny shit, how would any of you like it if your life were being flushed down the toilet and the people you tried to fit in with and whom you considered your peers just shrugged your existence off? The world may be a callous and nasty place-- does that mean that you have to contribute more of the same?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-13 02:18am

Knife wrote:The Dutchess of Zeon can't be blamed for this. Info like this is discussed around here every day. If Shep started asking about what one would need to blow up a small building, some may wonder, but the info would probably get to him anyway.

Even if she didn't give the info, if he is intent on suicide there is nothing anyone can do short of him being commited and placed on 24 hour observation.

Each of us probably know dozen of ways to kill ourselves/others, but we know that that kind of knowledge isn't something we would use.

Ray apparently doesn't know about any methods, nor what to properly do with such knowledge.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-12-13 02:27am

Shinova wrote:He's been banned, but can we still track his IP and alert authorities in that way?

From a technical point of view I'm not sure how or how long phpBB stores IP traces but I think that if any of his posts are left on the board then any mod/supermod with authority over the forum in which the post resides could get his IP data. If none of his posts are left then there's nothing that can be done from the board.

From a practical point of view, however, it's not necessary to go digging for RayCav posts here because he still posts to ASVS and his news provider implements the nntp-posting-host header. Just look at the full headers of any of his ASVS messages and his IP is right there.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2002-12-13 02:32am

Stormbringer wrote:
And it never occurred to you to ask why? Jeez.

He told me it was for a situation that sounded like your typical TGOD or fanfic scenario on ASVS. That was why I told him in the first place. When he wasn't satisfied with my answer and asked for something compact enough to use specifically in a school, then you can believe me I got very suspicious; but it was too late by then to take back the information I'd already given him.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-12-13 02:33am

Durandal wrote:He began telling me about kids in his school he wanted to kill,

Turn him in to the police. Now ---> https://tips.fbi.gov

That kind of threat is taken very seriously these days.

I really don't know if he's got the ability to act on those urges but regardless of what you might think about him it's not worth risking the lives of his classmates to assume that he's mostly harmless. If you're anything resembling a halfway reasonable person you'll never be able to forgive yourself if he does something that you might have been able to prevent.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2002-12-13 02:35am

Durandal wrote:Yes, he would have. He's nothing if not upfront about his violent urges.

Oh, he admitted it, too. Just not until after I'd already told him how for the scenario he'd proposed.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2002-12-13 02:39am

Enlightenment wrote:
Durandal wrote:He began telling me about kids in his school he wanted to kill,
Turn him in to the police. Now ---> https://tips.fbi.gov

That kind of threat is taken very seriously these days.

I really don't know if he's got the ability to act on those urges but regardless of what you might think about him it's not worth risking the lives of his classmates to assume that he's mostly harmless. If you're anything resembling a halfway reasonable person you'll never be able to forgive yourself if he does something that you might have been able to prevent.

You're not legally required to turn someone in for talking about committing a violent act unless it is a threat against a specific person or place -- which is a seperate crime in and of its self. Since we have no idea where Raycav lives, that basically rules out culpability on our part, and I'd just assume not put him into the care of our worthless justice system for "treatment".

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-12-13 02:58am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: You're not legally required to turn someone in for talking about committing a violent act unless it is a threat against a specific person or place -- which is a seperate crime in and of its self.

I'm not talking about law. I'm talking about ethical responsibility.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-13 03:00am

It'd be hypothetical at best.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2002-12-13 05:15am

Enlightenment wrote: I'm not talking about law. I'm talking about ethical responsibility.

Don't we have an ethical responsibility to Raycav? I mean, talk can be just talk, you know. This isn't the Soviet Union yet.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-13 05:17am

[off topic]

Hey, Duchess, what exactly is your avatar?

[/off topic]

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2002-12-13 05:21am

Depends can I form the Banana Republican Party, deticated to bringing the US to the standard of Law, Order, and Corprate cooperation of the 3rd world.

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-12-13 05:45am

I feel that the least we are oblidged to do is to make sure that he gets counselling at the very least.

And if the threats he's been making carry any weight, then we have a responsibility to turn him over.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2002-12-13 07:39am

Spoken as someone who's been there: turn him in. You'll be doing him a kindness. Whatever is eating at him is *not* going to go away without a long and painful struggle. Whether he's seriously trying to kill himself or whether he's just hurting himself for attention is immaterial: one day he will take it too far and end up permanently injured or dead from it. That's assuming of course that there's nothing to these threats he's made to kill other people. As it is, he sounds like he's pretty far along on the downward spiral, and it's going to take professional help to get him back.

Incidently, what I've been hearing since he was asked to leave confirms in my mind that y'all did the right thing. He's locked into this self-destructive pattern, and this board had become part of the pattern. So long as you allowed him to stay and ignored the escalating problems he was having, you merely continued to feed into it.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-12-13 12:08pm

Knife wrote:If Shep started asking about what one would need to blow up a small building, some may wonder, but the info would probably get to him anyway.

I already know

Diesel Fuel and Fertilizer. Experiment to find the proper mix.
Of course, you're going to have to make a small high level
explosive to set off the ANFO bomb....

Whoops, I just violated a US Law signed in by Bill Clinton,
which made advanced chemistry books illegal too.....

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2002-12-13 12:11pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Knife wrote:If Shep started asking about what one would need to blow up a small building, some may wonder, but the info would probably get to him anyway.
I already know

Diesel Fuel and Fertilizer. Experiment to find the proper mix.
Of course, you're going to have to make a small high level
explosive to set off the ANFO bomb....

Whoops, I just violated a US Law signed in by Bill Clinton,
which made advanced chemistry books illegal too.....

Ok you're nuts... in a kewl way... LOL