Giant Cells

SLAM: debunk creationism, pseudoscience, and superstitions. Discuss logic and morality.

Moderator: Alyrium Denryle

Post Reply
User avatar
Darth Raptor
Red Mage
Posts: 5448
Joined: 2003-12-18 03:39am

Giant Cells

Post by Darth Raptor »

Biology adepts, help me out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the upper limit on the size of unicellular organisms is the inability of water and its associated sollutes to effectively diffuse across large distances. This is why we don't have the giant amoebas and stuff like we have in fiction. The largest cell, IIRC, is a bacterium about the size of a grain of rice.

But what if eukaryotes evolved a kind of vascular network out of the fibers and tubules of the cytoskeleton? If water and nutrients are conducted across these vessels, wouldn't the problem be resolved? Could we then get a monster blob?
User avatar
Admiral Valdemar
Outside Context Problem
Posts: 31572
Joined: 2002-07-04 07:17pm
Location: UK

Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Or, rather than these Shoggoths you propose, we get many cells working together, specialising and producing a colony of super advanced cells. Wait, that's macroscale life.

Besides, the dynein transportation system and microtububles wouldn't support such a large system too well, it wouldn't be efficient enough. You need to compartmentalise, and that is best done with advanced eukaryotes working in unison to form a multiple redundant organ system utilising various special cells and tissues for different tasks.

If you want a blob monster, think of the Phantom from the Dean Koontz book and movie. It's a T-1000, but as a biologic.
User avatar
Ariphaos
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1739
Joined: 2005-10-21 02:48am
Location: Twin Cities, MN, USA
Contact:

Re: Giant Cells

Post by Ariphaos »

Darth Raptor wrote:Biology adepts, help me out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the upper limit on the size of unicellular organisms is the inability of water and its associated sollutes to effectively diffuse across large distances. This is why we don't have the giant amoebas and stuff like we have in fiction. The largest cell, IIRC, is a bacterium about the size of a grain of rice.
Well a yolk is, technically, a single cell, and neurons are also macroscopically long.
But what if eukaryotes evolved a kind of vascular network out of the fibers and tubules of the cytoskeleton? If water and nutrients are conducted across these vessels, wouldn't the problem be resolved? Could we then get a monster blob?
Think of it like... the cell nucleus eventually has to get messages to all parts of a cell, assuming said parts of a cell aren't there mostly to be inert while supporting growth. Along the way, proteins break down, get stuck, or are just generally rather slow.

Compare to a human, say, where parts of our reflexes are actually governed by our spinal cord rather than our brain. Eventually, the blob becomes more like egg yolk than terror.
Lord of the Abyss
Village Idiot
Posts: 4046
Joined: 2005-06-15 12:21am
Location: The Abyss

Post by Lord of the Abyss »

A major problem is structural strength; there's a macroscopic sea plant that is a single cell; it's a single cell wall filled with cytoplasm and billions of cell nuclei. It can live in the sea, but lacks the structural strength to hold a shape out of the water.
I read about it years ago offline; I'm not sure, but after googling I think it's valonia
Valonia is said to be the largest single cell organism in the world. The growing ball has no cell wall or internal divisions of any kind.
User avatar
Darth Raptor
Red Mage
Posts: 5448
Joined: 2003-12-18 03:39am

Post by Darth Raptor »

Oh. The thing I was thinking of is the world's largest prokaryote. Bugger if I can remember it's name.
User avatar
wolveraptor
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4042
Joined: 2004-12-18 06:09pm

Post by wolveraptor »

The largest cell, IIRC, is a bacterium about the size of a grain of rice.
I'm sure that every eukarote is bigger than a prokaryotic bacterium. There's no way a bacterium could be the largest cell.
"If one needed proof that a guitar was more than wood and string, that a song was more than notes and words, and that a man could be more than a name and a few faded pictures, then Robert Johnson’s recordings were all one could ask for."

- Herb Bowie, Reason to Rock
User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 21222
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Is it possible for a giant multicellular blob monster to exist?
Image "DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
User avatar
Lagmonster
Master Control Program
Master Control Program
Posts: 7719
Joined: 2002-07-04 09:53am
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Post by Lagmonster »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Is it possible for a giant multicellular blob monster to exist?
You can play an enormous game of 'stretching the truth' and drag out some of the cellular or plasmodial slime molds. There was a scare some few decades ago when people found larger versions of these blobs crawling out from under their porches. The things are so odd that they've been reclassified three times as observational techniques progress.
Note: I'm semi-retired from the board, so if you need something, please be patient.
User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 21222
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

What?
Image "DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
User avatar
GrandMasterTerwynn
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6787
Joined: 2002-07-29 06:14pm
Location: Somewhere on Earth.

Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:What?
You might have an enormously large plasmodial or cellular slime-mould that covers a couple square meters, but it would also be very thin. It would be less a blob monster than a mostly-flat sheet monster. And while they do move and can efficiently navigate mazes, they tend to do so very slowly and lack the internal strengthening necessary to be a credible threat to something human-sized.

Short answer, no.
Junghalli
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5001
Joined: 2004-12-21 10:06pm
Location: Berkeley, California (USA)

Re: Giant Cells

Post by Junghalli »

Darth Raptor wrote:But what if eukaryotes evolved a kind of vascular network out of the fibers and tubules of the cytoskeleton? If water and nutrients are conducted across these vessels, wouldn't the problem be resolved? Could we then get a monster blob?
You could get a large organism that was, in technical terms, a single cell but you'd be more likely to end up with something that resembled a conventional plant or animal.
Although I suppose if you've already got your mind set on a blob and just want a justification for how it can live without its interior layers dying in a matter of minutes it might work.
Post Reply