The Size of the Droid Army "Retconned"

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2006-05-15 04:55pm

Ghost Rider wrote:Then attack the problem over there instead of making vieled bullshit about how over here, we have no problem with going "it's bullshit."

You're allowed to call it bullshit, but if they're ignoring the facts because people are getting all upset then it'd be best to not get upset. Otherwise you're only speaking to hear yourself talk. If nobody is listening to you then it really doesn't matter what the content of that speech is since it's not getting through. It's their fault, to be sure, but we already know it's ridiculous. The only reason to attack it openly is to prove to others that it's ridiculous too. And if you try to do this in a manner that they won't listen to you're not getting anything accomplished.

And I have no desire to throw myself into their fight, I don't even read EU stuff, or care. I just don't want people who are making very good points to get overly frustrated because they're attacking those people in a way that's self-defeating. It's counter-productive, and it shifts their frustration from "They're idiots and won't listen" to "They want me to be polite and won't listen." Just deny them the moral highground of civility and they not only look wrong but ridiculous.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-05-15 05:00pm

Covenant wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:Then attack the problem over there instead of making vieled bullshit about how over here, we have no problem with going "it's bullshit."
You're allowed to call it bullshit, but if they're ignoring the facts because people are getting all upset then it'd be best to not get upset. Otherwise you're only speaking to hear yourself talk. If nobody is listening to you then it really doesn't matter what the content of that speech is since it's not getting through. It's their fault, to be sure, but we already know it's ridiculous. The only reason to attack it openly is to prove to others that it's ridiculous too. And if you try to do this in a manner that they won't listen to you're not getting anything accomplished.

And I have no desire to throw myself into their fight, I don't even read EU stuff, or care. I just don't want people who are making very good points to get overly frustrated because they're attacking those people in a way that's self-defeating. It's counter-productive, and it shifts their frustration from "They're idiots and won't listen" to "They want me to be polite and won't listen." Just deny them the moral highground of civility and they not only look wrong but ridiculous.

Okay, so you don't want to engage, but felt the need to make snide comments about how things are done here, anyways?

If you aren't over there, how do you actually know what's being said...or are you just taking second hand knowledge and assuming?

Post by **Edi** » 2006-05-15 05:01pm

Covenant, take your vacuous crap the fuck out of here and just shut up if you have nothing better to say. It has been abundantly clear that they are not going to listen to polite arguments, since they will just call those trolling anyway, so there is no reason to even pretend respect for them. We don't need any lectures on what fucktarded style over substance shit looks like, we've all seen it more times than we can count. And if you're not even interested in the debate as such, then you have even less business spouting on the subject.

You can either heed this admonition, or you're likely to have your words taken and shoved up your arse in a very unpleasant manner.

Edi

IceHawk-181 · Post by **IceHawk-181** » 2006-05-15 11:29pm

We just get the damn Odds thread back on track for a moment and then this Fingolfin dumbass has to fire another salvo against Traviss.

The fucking idiots have officialy hijacked the thread and are trying to have it locked.

Ignorant assholes, all of them.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-05-16 02:37am

IceHawk-181 wrote:We just get the damn Odds thread back on track for a moment and then this Fingolfin dumbass has to fire another salvo against Traviss.

The fucking idiots have officialy hijacked the thread and are trying to have it locked.

Ignorant assholes, all of them.

I agree, while I didn't see F.N's comments, that sort of behaviour is counterproductive and will only result in bans and a locked thread.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-05-16 02:39am

What about that "patchwork" fuck that keeps mentioning Traviss' name every 5 minutes?

And what was the deal with him completely misrepresenting the "Talifan" movie so blatantly?

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-05-16 02:49am

I think they're provocateur fucks deliberately trying to kill the discussion, personally.

ray245 · Post by **ray245** » 2006-05-16 11:26am

ignore them...and call in our executioner squad to deal with them if they do anything stupid...

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-05-16 11:38am

The old "Palpatine played chess with himself" argument is so old that it has started to rot. The proponents of that idea never bothers to bring forward any evidence, they just repeat it over and over again as if that would make it true. The ROTS novelization alone shoots down that idea.

IceHawk-181 · Post by **IceHawk-181** » 2006-05-16 11:58am

They are repeating themselves now.

I do believe that all logical refutations of the meager numbers have been spent and utterly destroyed.

We have the...

1) Palpatine is TEH MASTEZ @ CHEZZ
2) Acclamators = 1/2 full, maybe even empty!
3) nah nah nah its canon nah nah nah

...arguments popping up all over TF.N.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-05-16 12:25pm

IceHawk-181 wrote:They are repeating themselves now.

I do believe that all logical refutations of the meager numbers have been spent and utterly destroyed.

We have the...

1) Palpatine is TEH MASTEZ @ CHEZZ
2) Acclamators = 1/2 full, maybe even empty!
3) nah nah nah its canon nah nah nah

...arguments popping up all over TF.N.

And noone is conceding anything, they just keep on repeating themselves or digging up old posts to reply to.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-05-16 12:48pm

Acclamators = 1/2 full, maybe even empty!

Then why bother using them, since they were dedicated to troop transport and the Republic already had enough warships in the various fleets.

IceHawk-181 · Post by **IceHawk-181** » 2006-05-16 02:47pm

Posted by Rhonderoo

Not as much. But in this situation, I think we all know on either side if your attacking either side of the numbers argument with words like "idiotic" (moreso than illogical and ludicrous), you are in a round about way attacking the person.

...one paragraph later

And I'm not saying you're doing it on purpose, you seem to be a pretty good poster, but we're having to make some major changes in the way we talk to each other here due to the ridiculousness of this whole argument (IMO, anyway). Were it me, we'd never have come this far. It's fiction.

This is a moderator.

He tells us to play nice, be polite, and do not attack the people...

...and then denounces the argument as ridiculous???

Do they read what they write?

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-05-16 03:54pm

Actually, I think Rhonderoo is a she, but you're right, it doesn't make any sense at all.

Archon · Post by **Archon** » 2006-05-16 03:58pm

The argument is ridiculous. The 3 million number should never have been allowed to become canon. They should retcon it away as faulty intelligence by badly trained clones.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2006-05-16 04:37pm

IceHawk-181 wrote:This is a moderator.

He tells us to play nice, be polite, and do not attack the people...

...and then denounces the argument as ridiculous???

Do they read what they write?

Doesn't matter. From now on, everything the other side says is ridiculous. Make that the buzz word--the only derogatory term that we use to denigrate the opposition. Inundate your posts by describing the other side's claims as being ridiculous.

Also interesting, she admits that the mods are giving this debate special rules, and that nothing I said would ordinarily be described as unjust. I guess that Karen's such a VEWY impowtant pawson that she merits her own special rules on TFN.

IceHawk-181 · Post by **IceHawk-181** » 2006-05-16 04:50pm

I've been aware of this for awhile.

I was told that I needed to get rid of Karen's name in my signature even though, "Its not actually in the TOS..." - Dp4m

Ridiculous

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2006-05-16 04:57pm

IceHawk-181 wrote:I've been aware of this for awhile.

I was told that I needed to get rid of Karen's name in my signature even though, "Its not actually in the TOS..." - Dp4m

Ridiculous

What, exactly, was your signature statement?

IceHawk-181 · Post by **IceHawk-181** » 2006-05-16 05:11pm

Proud recipient of Karen's "Libeling Me" and "Faux Civility" Awards

It was not against the TOS, not offensive (to anyone but me), and utterly unallowable.

I mentioned an author, which is against the rules.

That such an imperative is not codified anywhere is immaterial...

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-05-16 05:28pm

Well, rhonderoo apologized... However, I'll be surprised if that thread is still open by tomorrow morning.

IceHawk-181 · Post by **IceHawk-181** » 2006-05-16 05:34pm

As I said, they've been looking for a reason to close it for some time.

The moderators hijacked the damn thread for two pages, redirected debate towards the language and author and away from the numbers, and have been searching for pretense to close/ban all week.

Proper moderation would have been to edit out the offensive posts, issue PM warnings, and help direct the debate back on track.

Not to challenge posters in the thread itself and bait for replies.
(Hell, even I had to reply to some of that....)

Moderators in this case helped inflame the pettiness, not settle it down.

It was well done.

Thread Hijacked....good job

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2006-05-16 06:15pm

Archon wrote:The argument is ridiculous. The 3 million number should never have been allowed to become canon. They should retcon it away as faulty intelligence by badly trained clones.

Or perhaps the number came from an "official document" that was fabricated by a galactic reporter desperate for ratings, who continued to cite it throughout the entire conflict?

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2006-05-16 07:41pm

Just out of curiosity (and yes I've searched but came back with way too many threads to look through) how many Stormtroopers were there supposed to have been at the height of the Empire?

IceHawk-181 · Post by **IceHawk-181** » 2006-05-16 08:14pm

At least 242,500,000 as Star Destroyer Marine Detachments alone....

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2006-05-16 08:24pm

Yeah and if you add light/heavy cruisers, dreadnoughts, Death Stars, and the odd planetary garrison you're looking at at least half a billion (yes that's a very low minimum considering Coruscant etc) which is one hell of a jump from 3 mil, considering as of the latest DVD release all Stormtroopers are clones IIRC.