Boy, Carracks have BIG windows.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2006-05-17 12:18pm

Ok, so I was over at the Warlords website checking out the newest pics and I saw THIS ONE of a Carrack blowing up.

And I'm looking at it, and in the back, you can see rows and rows of small blue windows, each slightly larger then a person. just look at them all! And then, up front, you have this MASSIVE thing, which I can only assume isa winbdow for, the bridge?

Now seriously, what where the guys who drew the original book on Vehicals thinking? A Carrack is 350 metters long! That 'window' in the front, would be the size of a small office building!

Not really important, just, you know, one of those things to think about.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2006-05-17 12:44pm

It could be a forward launch bay rather than a window.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2006-05-17 12:46pm

Well if you want to try and make it work, Carracks were used as patrol vessels, so perhaps they wanted enough window area so that crewmen could perform visual inspections? Maybe not though.

Damn that would be a big window.

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2006-05-17 12:46pm

The only think I can think of is if its part of the sensor grid instead? like the black covers for infrared devices that we have today.

Either that or the captains of carrack class ships like to have a good view.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2006-05-17 01:03pm

That window's not in the Vehicles book iirc. Also remember Warlords is a mod, created by fans; they're likely to be gettin' a few details somewhat off. You just found one, that's all...

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2006-05-17 01:08pm

Pretty much all images of the Carrack have the big front window, including Wookieepedia which uses the Lucas game Supremacy/Rebelion art but I have never seen a picture of the Carrack with a small window.

Also Warlords rulz!

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-05-17 01:12pm

Meh; seems only about twice the size of the window on the Corellian corvette.

Seydlitz_k · Post by **Seydlitz_k** » 2006-05-17 01:19pm

Yeah, the Warlord Carrack seems to me to be a cross in between the Star Wars Rebellion Carrack and the X-Wing Allaince Carrack (Which had a slightly smaller window.).

In both the games though, come to think of it, the windows were quite big. Like Darth Tanner said though, it could be the cover for a sensor grid?

AK_Jedi · Post by **AK_Jedi** » 2006-05-17 01:24pm

In a star wars tales comic (non-canon, I know) they show the bridge of a Carrack from the inside. The Bridge is made up of what appears to be two full decks, with the upper deck overlooking the lower one like a balcony. From the comic, it appears the commander of the ship stays of the upper deck.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2006-05-17 01:44pm

Well, we COULD try and explain it away as a 'False' window, don't forget it IS black. Maybe it's just Paint? And the real bridge wondow is nearby but much much smaller?

As an aside, I bet if you looked at a lot of the ships drawn in the old Vehical book as well as comics, you'd prolly find a LOT of overly massive windows drawn by people who might not have a good concept of hos foolish they might be.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-05-17 02:22pm

In a star wars tales comic (non-canon, I know)

Actually, I think that story was canonized somewhere.

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2006-05-17 02:30pm

I think the Bakuran defence fleet vessels had a similar design, with the upper deck being used by the admiral and guests to view the battle (from the Corelian trilogy) although they werent Carracks I think they were built off of its design.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2006-05-17 02:37pm

Supposidly there WAS a Carrack at Bakuran that became the systems lead ship or something.

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2006-05-17 02:46pm

During the massive Ssi-Ruuk invasion post Endor (which involved one battle ship

) the Imperial garison forces on Bakura were centered around a single Carrack frigate as the command ship of the defence, everything else was either Ties or light patrol boats. After the evil aliens were driven off by the mighty power of the force the captain of the carrack defected from the empire and stole Lukes girl, forming an independant Bakuran Defence Fleet.

However later in the corelian crisis the new republic sent in the Bakuran defence force to fight the Triad fleet which consisted of three ships none of which was a carrack, but it is implied that they are roughly the size of a carrack so id argue that the Bakurans either bought similar ships or reverse engineered the technology & design of their existing Carrack.

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-05-17 02:48pm

AK_Jedi wrote:In a star wars tales comic (non-canon, I know) they show the bridge of a Carrack from the inside. The Bridge is made up of what appears to be two full decks, with the upper deck overlooking the lower one like a balcony. From the comic, it appears the commander of the ship stays of the upper deck.

That particuler one-- Routine-- is actually one of the few that's entirely canon (due to its publication in an outside source).

EDIT: And VT-16 beat me to it.

The Bakuran fleet that participated in the Corellian Insurrection were composed of three Bakura-class Destroyers, which were ~ 650 m long and an entirely homegrown design, and one smaller patrol vessel whose class I can't remember. But in any case they weren't based on Carrack cruisers at all.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2006-05-17 02:49pm

Darth Tanner wrote:During the massive Ssi-Ruuk invasion post Endor (which involved one battle ship ) the Imperial garison forces on Bakura were centered around a single Carrack frigate as the command ship of the defence, everything else was either Ties or light patrol boats. After the evil aliens were driven off by the mighty power of the force the captain of the carrack defected from the empire and stole Lukes girl, forming an independant Bakuran Defence Fleet.

You.. Are.. Kidding..

THAT is the Entirtity of the horrible Ssi Invasion I hear so much about? This mighty Empire from a faraway ppart of the galaxy? It was an attack on ONE system with ONE battleships? And luke STILL Had to get involved?

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-05-17 02:52pm

In a star wars tales comic (non-canon, I know)

I thought that story was great, but I seem to have mislaid my copy somewhere

At 350 meters, would a two tiered bridge actually fit? I'm pretty sure we can't explain it as a sensor array, but I've always thought it was a really daft design. Although, perhaps the bridge is in the centre, and the surrounding area is something else, maybe sensors as has been suggested?

I still don't know why any SW ship has a bridge window and not just a CIC somewhere deep in the ship, there's been enough suicide and torpedo runs that have annihalated the whole command crew to make them consider this surely?

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-05-17 02:53pm

Crossroads Inc. wrote:You.. Are.. Kidding..

THAT is the Entirtity of the horrible Ssi Invasion I hear so much about? This mighty Empire from a faraway ppart of the galaxy? It was an attack on ONE system with ONE battleships? And luke STILL Had to get involved?

To be fair, it was more of an exploratory thrust than anything-- the Ssi-Ruuvi were still feeling out the strength of the Galaxy at the time. Skywalker was involved because it was a highly politicized mission, what with a temporary truce between and Imperial system and all. Plus, Kenobi told him to go.

Lazarus wrote:At 350 meters, would a two tiered bridge actually fit? I'm pretty sure we can't explain it as a sensor array, but I've always thought it was a really daft design. Although, perhaps the bridge is in the centre, and the surrounding area is something else, maybe sensors as has been suggested?

I think the old Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels might have said something about the bridge structure, but I don't have a copy on hand.

Lazarus wrote:I still don't know why any SW ship has a bridge window and not just a CIC somewhere deep in the ship, there's been enough suicide and torpedo runs that have annihalated the whole command crew to make them consider this surely?

Folks in Star Wars are historically leery of too much automation or reliance on sensors. It might be that they prefer to view the action firsthand rather than rely on vidscreens and so on. Plus, pretty much all vessels have at least one if not many secondary bridges located elsewhere in the ship, and evacuation protocols for the bridge in case of depressurization. Chiss SOP was even to enter battle wearing space armor.

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2006-05-17 03:06pm

I thought the Lizard Men had a treaty of some sort with Palpatine to trade people for those nifty battle droid things and invaded when he died becasue the deal was off?

I agree that the sensor thing for the carrack dosnt really fit, no other star wars ship has that large a sensor array in relation to the rest of the ship or positioned so obviously in a location prone to damage. I think the idea of a two tier bridge is the only real explanation, or that the artist had a problem with scale.

In relation to the internal bridge, yes all ships had them, Warlord Zsinj for exaple had to run from his bridge when it was breached by Rogues/Wraiths (I think it was him, might be wrong) but surely its still pretty dangerous thing to do, Moncals in patricular had bridges that were entirely seperate modules from the ship! (in the New Rebelion book however Wedge commands the ship from deep inside) Even if you can transfer control to the backup bridge during combat (which the Executor couldn't) then you ares still left with the problem that all your officers are dead!

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2006-05-17 03:44pm

Crossroads Inc. wrote:You.. Are.. Kidding..

THAT is the Entirtity of the horrible Ssi Invasion I hear so much about? This mighty Empire from a faraway ppart of the galaxy? It was an attack on ONE system with ONE battleships? And luke STILL Had to get involved?

To be fair, The Truce at Bakura points out that it was just a scout fleet. However, this didn't save the book from stupidity, because the Rebel characters acted like the Ssi-Ruuvi force was impressive for just a scout fleet, and indicative of the kind of threat the main fleet would pose to the galaxy. Obi-wan's ghost even comes back to warn Luke of the threat.

Also, calling the Ssi-Ruuvi flagship Shriwirr a "battleship" is vastly overrating it. It was a 900 m long ship armed with two dozen turbolasers that probably couldn't even take on a VSD. The Ssi-Ruuk also had small 2-m wide droid fighters, which despite their tiny size (which would be a great advantage in a dogfight) were as heavily armed as most starfighters. Both the novel and the EGTVV claimed that they were very impressive ships, and like Darth Tanner said, Palpatine even cut a deal to acquire some of them. However, that didn't stop Rogue Squadron and a couple dozen odd Rebel and Imperial fighters from successfully holding off about a thousand of them.

The entire Ssi-Ruuvi species were a bunch of cowards as well. Their religious belief was that if they perished outside of their home star system, then their souls would be lost forever. Because of this, the slightest casualties could send them into retreat.

Basically, authorial intent talked the Ssi-Ruuk up to be this huge threat to the entire galaxy, but they were actually a bunch of pussies.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-05-17 04:03pm

Whenever I hear the Ssi-Ruuvi mentioned, I keep thinking about one of Wong's sigs. "Middle-Eastern Infantry: We get our asses kicked every time, but we keep coming back for more!"

Didn' t they try to invade other territories three or four times, each time ending with their fleets kicked back to their home world and it getting an orbital bombardement in return?

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-05-17 04:12pm

Pretty much. If I remember right, they got stomped hard by the the Empire of the Hand, the Alliance of Free Planets, the Galactic Alliance, and the Vong at different points in time.

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2006-05-17 04:30pm

Pretty sad bunch of losers really,

What sort of species goes into the galaxy with ambitions for an empire when their religion prohibits them from dieing anywhere but their home world!

I mean look at them!

How are they even evolved enough to have fire let alone space travel!

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2006-05-17 04:38pm

Oh and as an aside have the Warlord team changed the model for the Carrack? it looks smoother at the fron than I remember.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-05-17 08:02pm

Darth Tanner wrote:Oh and as an aside have the Warlord team changed the model for the Carrack? it looks smoother at the fron than I remember.

The one from that site looks more like the XWA Carrack, which was a bit more smooth than other sources.