Mahler

[Baron Scarpia]

Who here loves him as I do? You have to be out there. Let's discuss!

Or, I can educate the unitiated. A whole new world awaits you.

"We have such sights to show you!"

[Rogue 9]

He was a bit verbose, musically speaking. I mean, those have to be some of the longest symphonies on record.

[Saurencaerthai]

How funny that you post this, as I just heard my school's orchestra play Mahler 1 tonight! The only lousy thing was that one of the timpani heads was out of tune with it's self, so the D's in the beginning of the third movement between the timp and the solo bass were out of tune with eachother. Didn't make life easy for one of my bassoon friends.

A great description of him from a music history class: "Towards the end of the Romantic music, some people said 'we've gone too far with this! Time to go back to Beethoven/Mozart/Bach and restart.' Mahler went 'we've gone too far! Let's push it even further!"

[Baron Scarpia]

He was a bit verbose, musically speaking. I mean, those have to be some of the longest symphonies on record.

Well, Bruckner had been writing symphonies just as long and musically inferior decades before Mahler. I think that's one of Mahler's greatest aspects--his ability to meander with music, but bring it all back together in the end.

Mahler's longest symphony is the 3rd, which clocks in at over 100 minutes, typically. His shortest is the easy-to-digest 4th, which is of a modest 60 minutes.

FACTOID: The longest symphony ever, "Victory at Sea" by Richard Rodgers, is 13 hours in length. Oy.

[Baron Scarpia]

How funny that you post this, as I just heard my school's orchestra play Mahler 1 tonight! The only lousy thing was that one of the timpani heads was out of tune with it's self, so the D's in the beginning of the third movement between the timp and the solo bass were out of tune with eachother. Didn't make life easy for one of my bassoon friends.

Ugh, I would have been in hell in the audience. I'll never forget the time I sang in a concert of the Brahms Requiem, but prior to the requiem the orchestra played the Barber Adagio. The violas (not to pick on an already abused group) were atrociously out of tune, and we singers had to do our best to remain stoic on the stage while they scraped away.

The third movement of the Mahler 1 is so sublime, it would be tragic to see it marred so. For those not familiar, it's a funeral march, with the tune being a minor-key version of "Frere Jacques." It also incorporates very Jewish-sounding themes and a raucus "off-stage band" that interjects every so often.

[kheegster]

His 2nd Symphony is one of the few pieces which can literally make me try and stop my breathing to capture every nuance in the final movements. I like his 5th, in fact overall I like it better overall than the 2nd but it doesn't give the emotional sucker-punch like the Resurrection does.

I'm not too sure about the 9th though...that one does feel far too meandering for my liking.

Those 3 are the only ones I have recordings for, so I don't feel like I should comment on the others.

[Fleet Admiral JD]

How funny that you post this, as I just heard my school's orchestra play Mahler 1 tonight! The only lousy thing was that one of the timpani heads was out of tune with it's self, so the D's in the beginning of the third movement between the timp and the solo bass were out of tune with eachother. Didn't make life easy for one of my bassoon friends.

The head was out of tune with itself? How's that work?

OT, I've actually never heard any of his sypmphonies. I'll check around later tonight to see if I can find one.

[Saurencaerthai]

How funny that you post this, as I just heard my school's orchestra play Mahler 1 tonight! The only lousy thing was that one of the timpani heads was out of tune with it's self, so the D's in the beginning of the third movement between the timp and the solo bass were out of tune with eachother. Didn't make life easy for one of my bassoon friends.

The head was out of tune with itself? How's that work?

OT, I've actually never heard any of his sypmphonies. I'll check around later tonight to see if I can find one.

With most drums, including tympani, the drum head is held in place and tensioned by a rim that rests on the collar around the edge of the head. Evenly spaced around the rim are screws that are used to adjust the tension of the head and allow the drum to be tuned. On tympani, if you tap few inches out on the head in front of the lug, you will hear a pitch. If you tap a few inches out in front of another lug and hear another pitch, it means that the head is unevenly tensioned and thus out of tune. Therefore, you have to make sure the pitch is the same in front of each tuning lug on the drum. If you don't, the drum will be out of tune with it's self and you'll have discrepancies when you use the pedal to change the pitch of the drum.

[Lord Zentei]

Who here loves him as I do? You have to be out there. Let's discuss!

I love him, though I couldn't say if I love him as you do.

Sometimes, one craves something that must be mulled in great depth.

Well, Bruckner had been writing symphonies just as long and musically inferior <snip>

Bah.

Though truth be told, I'm more for Wagner than either of the two.

[Baron Scarpia]

His 2nd Symphony is one of the few pieces which can literally make me try and stop my breathing to capture every nuance in the final movements. I like his 5th, in fact overall I like it better overall than the 2nd but it doesn't give the emotional sucker-punch like the Resurrection does.

I'm not too sure about the 9th though...that one does feel far too meandering for my liking.

Those 3 are the only ones I have recordings for, so I don't feel like I should comment on the others.

Oh, don't speak of the 9th so. Should I be dying, I would insist the last movement of the 9th be what I hear over and over again until I pass. It is, for me, the ultimate expression of resignation to one's fate.

My recommendation for a symphony you haven't heard yet is the 6th, which is my personal favorite of the Mahler symphonies. It's his most taut symphony, being in pretty much perfect symphonic form. But the things it expresses--black, dark, terrible things. The gargantuan finale is a thing unto itself, and has to be heard to be believed. I'd recommend starting with the Bernstein recording with the NY Philharmonic from 1960. While not digital and thus suffering from a little inferior sound quality, the performance is stunning. I don't think I've ever felt terror before at listening to music, but this one did it to me. I had a hard time sleeping after listening to it.

[Baron Scarpia]

Bah.

Though truth be told, I'm more for Wagner than either of the two.

I love a lot of Wagner, but truth be told, I'm very much inclined to agree with Rossini when he said:

"Wagner has good moments, but bad quarter-hours."

[Lord Zentei]

Bah.

Though truth be told, I'm more for Wagner than either of the two.

I love a lot of Wagner, but truth be told, I'm very much inclined to agree with Rossini when he said:

"Wagner has good moments, but bad quarter-hours."

Heh. Though I can see what he means, I'm not sure that I agree: the good moments become all the greater in the context of the whole rather than as isolated pieces.

And now I'm re-listenig to Mahler's 9th because of this thread.

[Saurencaerthai]

Bah.

Though truth be told, I'm more for Wagner than either of the two.

I love a lot of Wagner, but truth be told, I'm very much inclined to agree with Rossini when he said:

"Wagner has good moments, but bad quarter-hours."

I'm inclined to go with Mark Twain: "Wagner's music is better than it sounds!"

[Sriad]

Thread necromancy? BAH!! Mahler is classic and so is this thread!

Or late romantic. But that wouldn't make nearly as much sense...

Anyway, I was poking around my itunes and found that I didn't have any complete Mahler symphonies, just excerpts! Zounds!

So I went to the library and checked out what they had: Deutch Grammophon recordings of 3 and 9, and EMI's recording of 5.

Let's see what unfolds... I invite further commentary by our beloved Baron!

[Darth Wong]

I've never had the patience for long orchestral pieces. A friend of mine was a trumpet player and huge Mahler fan in university, and he tried to get me interested in the music but I just couldn't sit through it. Of course, that might have had something to do with the 20+ cans of Coca-Cola I used to drink every day back then, but I digress.

If I'm going to listen to an orchestral piece, I'd prefer it to be something like Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture. Less than 20 minutes long, fast-moving, thematic, bombastic, and ... oh yeah, cannons.

[muse]

I had a friend in university who went on and on about Mahler like he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, so one day took out some Mahler CDs from the university library and prepared to be enlightened. It was one of the larger letdowns in my life, frankly I was bored to tears and was left scratching my head thinking "this is it..? Am I missing something here...?" It's just not my kind of music I guess.

[Sriad]

It certainly requires patience practiced of immersion in the Classical tradition rather than more popular music (where a 20 minute concept piece (such as The Decemberist's "The Tain" to refrence another recent CD aquisition of mine) can be called Epic without irony). Also his works are a lot less thematically unified than what we're used to in Classical music.

...and I wouldn't be enjoying Symphony 3 as much as I currently am if I hadn't read the liner notes ahead of time. Programmatic music can be helped quite a lot by a bit of cheating. "What the Animals of the Forest Tell Me" is more meaningful than "Comodo. Scherzando."

[Thanas]

I actualy have several mahler recordings I love - the first one a combined recording from Furtwängler, Baremboin and Kempe (Des Knaben Wunderhorn, Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellens, Kindertotenlieder et al), the second one a performance of the SWR (symphonies 1-9, excerpt from Symphonie Nr. 10). I also particularly enjoy the Kubelik Recording of Mahlers first, and the 10th done by the BPO/Sir Simon Rattle (which I had the pleasure seeing performed by the BPO live in 1999). Quasthoff and Bernstein also performed Mahler in an excellent manner.

[kheegster]

I had a friend in university who went on and on about Mahler like he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, so one day took out some Mahler CDs from the university library and prepared to be enlightened. It was one of the larger letdowns in my life, frankly I was bored to tears and was left scratching my head thinking "this is it..? Am I missing something here...?" It's just not my kind of music I guess.

Mahler is very definitely an acquired taste. I find it difficult to enjoy his symphonies on the first hearing, because you need to have some conception of the thematic structure of the piece in your head to build on.

[Metatwaddle]

Mahler is one of a few classical composers by whom I don't have any music. Now I need to go find some. I'll probably look for his 6th Symphony, because I tend to like dark music and Scarpia's description piqued my curiosity.