EaW Expansion Announced - WTF

[Shadowtraveler]

Wouldn't stealing one of the Emperor's most precious superweapons instantly make him a dead man?

Making an expansion for Empire at War about a fucking gangster is like making a new X-wing game about Stormtroopers.

Haven't you heard? He's a Force-sensitive stormtrooper with a Wookie as a companion. And his E-11 has an underslung lightsaber.

[Seydlitz_k]

Meh, I have little faith in the Lucasarts,ever since X-Wing Alliance. They've made a few good games since then, like KOTOR (I just got it, but I haven't finished it yet. It is still very good), and Jedi Outcast and Acedemy weren't so bad either. Oh yeah, there was also republic Commando, which was a fresh change from rampaging Jedi.

All their console launches I found were horrible. Rogue squadron was alright, but then they game out with all those titles sort of like Rogue Squadron but happening in the prequels that were mediocre at best...

On PC they also launched that game Starfighter, which didn't really go anywhere, along with Galactic Battlegrounds which was an alright game, but could have been better. Now they have Battlefront *GAG* and Empire At War. Empire at war, i started the Imperial Campaign twice, but I still havn't even got past the second planet you need to conquer. It's just too linear and boring. I mean, there are paths for you to follow to get to the base....and the space combat is all on the same plane, with asteroid fields and nebula's creating lanes? Not to mention that the Warlords Mod has better, more detailed ship models, and it's using an engine with a few year under it's belt already.

The there was Star Wars Galaxies...a disaster so big, I don't even want to talk about. That games dashed so many of my hopes and dreams, it dosn't bear thinking about.

Too many of the newer games just don't feel like Star Wars. I loved X-Wing Alliance because of the Concourse and the Family Transport, where you gather bits and pieces from various missions, you receive E-mails, and there was a storyline which was actually good and detailed. The X-Wing and Tie Fighter series explored the workings of the Star Was galaxiy better than most other Star Wars ames, novels, and comics combined.

KOTOR had the Ebon Hawk, and a complex storyline. Rebellion, while it lacked in graphics and had a fairly steep learning curve, was very in depth but was still very immersive. I think because the background music they choose was excellent mainly. JO and Ja then set you and a bunch of varied settings, and even on Nal Hutta, and I thought that made them quite good.

I dunno, the newer games often lack the flair and charm of Star Wars. They have a bunch of things from Star Wars, but it dosn't really feel Star Wars. The expansion to EAW to me seems no different.

[PREDATOR490]

Wouldn't stealing one of the Emperor's most precious superweapons instantly make him a dead man?

Well... one has to wonder how a random pirate can have enough influence to get anywhere near such a ship to steal it in the first place and get away with it...

Overall, if the theft is a success then its a given that the events leading up to it are going to be rather biased so that it allows such a success. I.E. The Imperial fleet just "happens" to be called away etc.


I like EaW since its decent compared to the previous games which mostly focused on the FPS, at least in this game commanding fleets is possible.
Although some things have been left out which are annoying - a.k.a Orbital Bombardments...

It would be alot better if they make a series of expansions which continue through the Star Wars timeline from rise of the Empire to Yuuzhan Vong.
That way its like a gradual build up.
This particular expasion is no doubt an attempt to introduce a new faction into the war, lame as it is.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Well I for one happen to enjoy Empire at War quite a lot. It's nothing revolutionary or innovative, but it's fun goddamnit, and that's all that really matters.

I thought Forces of Corruption looked kind of nub when I first saw it, but overall I'm pretty excited for the new units and planets. All told, Petroglyph has done an absolutely stellar job of including elements from all venues of the Star Wars universe, with commendable accuracy. Gameplay concerns are one thing, but I think it's kind of sad when people can find nothing better to do than slam every single inconsitancy or design decision. Since when have SW games been even remotely canon anyway?

So there's some pirate boss and a campaign surrounding. So what? Don't like it, don't play the damn Underworld campaign. I doubt I will, because it doesn't really interest me. I'll just keep playing more Galactic Conquest games as the Empire (which I find quite enjoyable, I might add) and smashing Rebels and now crime syndicates into subatomic particles with the new toys in FoC.

[Jim Raynor]

Since when have SW games been even remotely canon anyway?

Since always. Game mechanics may not be canon, but the storylines are C-canon.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Since when have SW games been even remotely canon anyway?

Since always. Game mechanics may not be canon, but the storylines are C-canon.

This seems to be one of the biggest misconceptions...

[Jim Raynor]

This seems to be one of the biggest misconceptions...

It's not a misconception, it's fact.

"...continuity "C" canon which is pretty much everything else. " By everything else I mean EVERYthing else. Novels, comics, junior novels, videogames, trading card games, roleplaying games, toys, websites, television. As I've mentioned earlier, any contradictions that arise are dealt on a case-by-case. This has been our general approach to continuity since we began using the Holocron database to track it.

[000]

He's referring to Gaius's quote, not yours.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

He's referring to Gaius's quote, not yours.

Indeed... especially when the usual newbie to the TF.N had a penchant of either making that mistake or thinking game mechanics were canon...

*Thinks of the X-wing fighter wanker debates*

[Stark]

Gaius is just getting his panties in a knot. He's got low standards.

The last SW game I enjoyed was LEGO Star Wars. I'm gleefully looking forward to the OT version. LEGO makes everything kool. Maybe I'll even *sigh* end up liking KotOR. After all, all major SW characters wore stat-increasing visors, right?

[000]

I actually refused to stick visors on my guys because they look stupid.

KotOR was fun for a single run-through, although the story's pretty lame when all is said and done. I got bored trying to play through it a second time though for continuity stuff and wound up using cheats. Then again, I've never been much of a gamer.

I'd comment on KotOR II, but the damn thing won't play on my BRAND NEW computer.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Since when have SW games been even remotely canon anyway?

Since always. Game mechanics may not be canon, but the storylines are C-canon.

And as a heretofor unheard of criminal lord rises to galactic power and dominace in the ESB/RotJ period in Forces of Corruption, that blatantly contradicts just about everything, ever. Ergo it'd be tossed out just like Kyle Katarn training Mara Jade, or hell, even Kyle Katarn's freaking existance. Or the 501st fighting alongside Ki Adi Mundi well before Order 66. Or Galaxies (whoo, there goes everything).

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Since when have SW games been even remotely canon anyway?

Since always. Game mechanics may not be canon, but the storylines are C-canon.

And as a heretofor unheard of criminal lord rises to galactic power and dominace in the ESB/RotJ period in Forces of Corruption, that blatantly contradicts just about everything, ever. Ergo it'd be tossed out just like Kyle Katarn training Mara Jade, or hell, even Kyle Katarn's freaking existance. Or the 501st fighting alongside Ki Adi Mundi well before Order 66. Or Galaxies (whoo, there goes everything).

Well, you certainly not alone in your grumblings. Galaxies is designated Infinities I think (it jolly well better be). I believe they retcon the 501st I think.

[000]

Thing is, none of that's been tossed out. Jade's temporary apprenticeship is in the NEC, Katarn is being referenced everywhere these days (hell, back in the day he even got his own trilogy of novellas), the 501st on Mygeeto is in the databank, and all the 'fixed' or storyline stuff from Galaxies exists in-continuity.

So yeah, until stated as otherwise, the storyline in Forces of Corruption is canon. Which is why I'm a proponent of going the easy route and slapping an Infinities logo on it, although LFL is unlikely to do that.

[VT-16]

Yeah, the 501st were fighting on Mygeeto (outside of Ki-Adi's chain of command), according to the OS. They've also been retconned into ANH, ESB and ROTJ, also according to the OS.

[000]

Yep. They go everywhere, and then they whine about it.

[white_rabbit]

This seems to be one of the biggest misconceptions...

It's not a misconception, it's fact.

"...continuity "C" canon which is pretty much everything else. " By everything else I mean EVERYthing else. Novels, comics, junior novels, videogames, trading card games, roleplaying games, toys, websites, television. As I've mentioned earlier, any contradictions that arise are dealt on a case-by-case. This has been our general approach to continuity since we began using the Holocron database to track it.

Believe me, I'm the last person who would argue for game mechanics, but it doesn't actually "say" that game mechanics are non-canon.

It says video games are canon...no mention of mechanics.

[RedWizard]

Meh, I have little faith in the Lucasarts,ever since X-Wing Alliance. They've made a few good games since then, like KOTOR (I just got it, but I haven't finished it yet. It is still very good), and Jedi Outcast and Acedemy weren't so bad either.

Bioware made KOTOR and Raven made Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy. Lucasarts only published them, and had nothing to do with actually making them.

[000]

Leland Chee confirmed that the campaign storyline is in continuity.

[Jim Raynor]

Believe me, I'm the last person who would argue for game mechanics, but it doesn't actually "say" that game mechanics are non-canon.

It says video games are canon...no mention of mechanics.

That comes in another Chee quote:

Are game mechanics (video games or rpg) canon? For example, does a rpg damage rating like "7d" mean anything? If a C-canon source (like a novel or reference book) contradicts what the game mechanics say, will the book win out?

Game mechanics are designed to try to match continuity to fit the purposes of the game for which they were created. They can serve to provide a scale from which to compare how one character or piece of technology stacks up against another. Because RPGs use dice, there is always the element of random chance involved, which isn't quite applicable to a book.

But stats themselves aren't created randomly; they are based on what is already known. As such, we can always look to them as a basis when writing books. I often look to RPG stats to see for example, what type of Force powers a character may have. Or if we haven't determined the stats of a particular vehicle, we can look to RPG stats for a basis of comparison.

Conversely, I think it would be a determinent if books were artificially limited by game stats. So I would agree that a book is going to overrule a stat if there is a contradiction.

This would put books using game-stats on a lower canonical level than other books.[/quote]

Game profiles can be used for things like what powers a character has, and in-game stats can be used to determine the relative strength of different things. However, if anything else contradicts the game mechanics, then the game loses.

[Stark]

Hey that's cool. Does that mean those awful XWing novels are all bollocks now, since they were based on capability drawn from X-wing the game?

What kind of author would do that, anyway? What goes through their heads?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Of course, Stackpole is the biggest %#)#%*^)_ ass for an author until Traviss came along. Before that woman, it was him that took the ass prize for stupidity.

[FTeik]

Of course, Stackpole is the biggest %#)#%*^)_ ass for an author until Traviss came along. Before that woman, it was him that took the ass prize for stupidity.

Now, now, now, while Stackpole's works might suffer from a huge misconception and caused a great deal of problems he is hardly in the same league as Traviss.

Compare their back-ground and what they had to work with:

Stackpole is originally a RPG-designer, had to work with WEG, a few games, the movies (A-Wing VS Executor) and a few comics (where capships suffer similary bad against fighters -> Giel's battleship for example, IIRC). No surprise, that he sticks to what he knows and doesn't think to much about the circumstances, that make fighters look powerful enough to fight capships.

Traviss was a military journalist, has tons of sources to work with including the DK-books, so she should know better and could know better, but she doesn't.

[Mange]

Yeah, the 501st were fighting on Mygeeto (outside of Ki-Adi's chain of command), according to the OS. They've also been retconned into ANH, ESB and ROTJ, also according to the OS.

Oh brother... This kind of "retconn" are becoming tiresome and IMHO they're quite unnecessary. There are far too many retconns now that doesn't make much sense, feels horribly contrieved and that feels unimportant.
Sorry about the rant...

[VT-16]

Actually, when the 501st became canon, it would almost be expected to identify them as Vader's troops in ANH and ESB. But, the Legion at Endor as well? Man alive. lol :P