UFP Modified vs. Empire

Renewed_Valour1 · Post by **Renewed_Valour1** » 2002-12-13 09:57pm

UFP: FC Era
Empire: Pre Endor

Now we make just one small addition for the Federation. Prior to the events in TNG a Magog swarmship is discovered adrift in Federation space and they reverse engineer the PSP and slipstream drive. The Akira, Galaxy, Intrepid, Nebula, Defiant, and later classes of Federation vessels are built largely as they were except they are armed with point singularity projectors rather than torpedo launchers. In addition all of these vessels have slipstream drives rather than warp cores. The older classes are still equipped and armed as they were originally.

The Empire discovers a wormhole in the Delta Quadrant and starts to invade. How messy does it get?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-12-13 10:04pm

Unless this system gives the Federation ships a increase in power generation, shielding and weapons output of several orders of magnitude while massively increasing its industrial strength they still die very fast and hard.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2002-12-13 10:12pm

This is also assuming that the Federation even could reverse-engineer a Slipstream drive. Their science has not even yielded up a workable transwarp drive after eighty years of effort, and the crew of the Voyager were unable to successfully reverse-engineer Borg transwarp even with the assistance of Seven of Nine. Reverse-engineering a wholly foreign piece of technology is not as easy as a lot of SF fans seem to think.

Renewed_Valour1 · Post by **Renewed_Valour1** » 2002-12-13 11:50pm

Sea Skimmer wrote: weapons output of several orders of magnitude while massively increasing its industrial strength they still die very fast and hard.

The PSP is a point singularity projector. It basically fires a blackhole with the mass of about the Earth at .5 C with a ROF of 1 every 2 or 3 seconds. No starship shield in Empire is going to stand up to even a single hit by one and I have doubts about planetary shields. The Slipstream drive is FTL drives that is immensely faster than hyperdrives in most cases; with a good pilot you can jump between galaxies in a few minutes to hours.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-14 12:06am

Why don't you just make an Andromeda versus SW thread and leave it at that? The very thought that the Feds could reverse engineer such technology is ridiculous.

Renewed_Valour1 · Post by **Renewed_Valour1** » 2002-12-14 12:19am

Vympel wrote:The very thought that the Feds could reverse engineer such technology is ridiculous.

Slipstream probably isn't that hard to reverse engineer. The Kalderans pulled it off by capturing a damaged High Guard vessel starting at a technology level that was probably below that of the Federation.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2002-12-14 12:24am

We're not going to have this "PSP's have huge kinetic energy outputs" arguments again are we?

Renewed_Valour1 · Post by **Renewed_Valour1** » 2002-12-14 12:39am

Connor MacLeod wrote:We're not going to have this "PSP's have huge kinetic energy outputs" arguments again are we?

I take it you still believe they have very little mass?

Renewed_Valour1 · Post by **Renewed_Valour1** » 2002-12-14 12:40am

Connor MacLeod wrote:We're not going to have this "PSP's have huge kinetic energy outputs" arguments again are we?

I take it you still think they have negligible mass?

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2002-12-14 12:44am

good gods, PSPs are pathetic. We've seen them blow 1 meter wide holes in an unshielded hull of a starship. At most I think theyve blown large 50+ meter holes. But the Andromeda Ascendant is unshielded! I mean, fuck, C4 could probably do that to a modern warship, no?

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2002-12-14 12:47am

Renewed_Valour1 wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote:We're not going to have this "PSP's have huge kinetic energy outputs" arguments again are we?
I take it you still think they have negligible mass?

Negligible relative to an actual planetary mass? Yes.

Unless you have some theory about how they would compensate for the recoil of firing an actual planetary mass at .5c without flinging the ship far back in the opposite direction.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2002-12-14 12:52am

Renewed_Valour1 wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote:We're not going to have this "PSP's have huge kinetic energy outputs" arguments again are we?
I take it you still think they have negligible mass?

Keep in mind that if you're going to argue its a legitimate planetary mass at .5c, it would act like a giant railgun projectile.

For that matter, I would point otu tht the speed is only important in making it a remotely viable anti-ship weapon. They prefer much slower speeds against planets and such. This wouldn't be so if it had the Kinetic energy of a planetary-mass moving at half the speed of light (the KE alone would be enough to shatter the planet, making gravitic effects superfluous)

Renewed_Valour1 · Post by **Renewed_Valour1** » 2002-12-14 01:19am

Connor MacLeod wrote: Negligible relative to an actual planetary mass? Yes.

I knew the statement existed so I went looking for it. In "All too Human" when the Basilisk is attacking initially Trance is manning the sensor station. I can get the exact quote if you want but to paraphrase. She states "they are firing a planetary mass at us, wait two, no three". Then either her or Beka says the Basilisk is using point singularity projectiles.

Connor MacLeod wrote:Unless you have some theory about how they would compensate for the recoil of firing an actual planetary mass at .5c without flinging the ship far back in the opposite direction.

You guess is as good as mine. We know the GFGs on a GHC cruiser can compensate for multiple 1 kg masses being accelerated to .8 C in the ELS tubes when a GHC only has an effective mass of 245g when they are operating at full. Yet she doesn't go spinning off into space either with every shot but we are dealing with a "lot" more recoil from a PSP. But we know the technology according to Kim who reverse engineered the technology for the Basilisk the technology on the swarmship was several hundred years more advanced than what they had. PSPs for the Commonwealth were just coming on the drawing boards as a concept.

I would suspect that it might somehow in addition tie in with the tesseracting technology; which I'm willing to bet is also used in the creation of the PSP.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-12-14 04:03am

Vympel wrote:Why don't you just make an Andromeda versus SW thread and leave it at that? The very thought that the Feds could reverse engineer such technology is ridiculous.

We already had that thread.
ISD owns Rommie.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-14 04:08am

Cpt_Frank wrote:
Vympel wrote:Why don't you just make an Andromeda versus SW thread and leave it at that? The very thought that the Feds could reverse engineer such technology is ridiculous.
We already had that thread.
ISD owns Rommie.

Which is why I suggested it

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-12-14 04:09am

Vympel wrote:
Cpt_Frank wrote:
Vympel wrote:Why don't you just make an Andromeda versus SW thread and leave it at that? The very thought that the Feds could reverse engineer such technology is ridiculous.
We already had that thread.
ISD owns Rommie.
Which is why I suggested it