Creationists and Cavemen

[Stravo]

I was wondering about this. Do creationists deny the existence of such popularly accepted things like cavemen? Do they accept a prehistoric past with a prehistoric man or do they think we were as we are now?

[Darth Wong]

I was wondering about this. Do creationists deny the existence of such popularly accepted things like cavemen? Do they accept a prehistoric past with a prehistoric man or do they think we were as we are now?

Creationists believe that the very first humans on this Earth already had advanced language skills, as they were speaking to each other and to God about fairly complicated things. So I would say that they probably dispute the notion of primitive prehistorical humans and/or neanderthals who communicated primarily via grunts and hand gestures.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Dinosaurs were also benevolent veggies with a penchant for agriculture help. Don't ask how they vanished without Humanity disappearing too. They probably just decided one day to be birds, no, wait. Creationists hate evolution, right?

[Aaron]

Creationists believe that the very first humans on this Earth already had advanced language skills, as they were speaking to each other and to God about fairly complicated things. So I would say that they probably dispute the notion of primitive prehistorical humans and/or neanderthals who communicated primarily via grunts and hand gestures.

The two Christians that I mentioned before that I went to college with, they refused to believe in things like primitive humans. They thought it was all a lie put forth by science to tempt man. Even when they were confronted by a First Nations person talking about how her ancestors lived in 1600's Canada, they refused to believe that primitive humans like cavemen existed and that the one truth was that the past consisted of Adam and Eve sitting around in the Garden of Eden.

[Sriad]

I'm pretty sure the party line among YECers is that God made cavemen artifacts to trick us into not believing in him and getting sent to Hell because he's a titanic cock.

[Covenant]

Creationists have a small outpost within human evolution, the group that believe human intelligence evolved long before human form. They want the apeman to be found, and for it's body to be ape while it's brain is man. They find it utterly appalling that humanlike beings were bounding around out there with an intelligence somewhere between a Gorilla and a Grey Parrot, and that we weren't Men among Beasts, but rather Beast among Beast. These folks think what they're doing is more scientific, but it's still putting an agenda first, and science far after.

[Patrick Degan]

They think The Flintstones is a documentary.

[Lord Zentei]

Dinosaurs were also benevolent veggies with a penchant for agriculture help. Don't ask how they vanished without Humanity disappearing too. They probably just decided one day to be birds, no, wait. Creationists hate evolution, right?

I understand they all drowned in the flood.

Not enough room in the Ark, I guess. As for plesiosaurs, et. al. I haven't a clue.

[Darth Raptor]

Dinosaurs were also benevolent veggies with a penchant for agriculture help. Don't ask how they vanished without Humanity disappearing too. They probably just decided one day to be birds, no, wait. Creationists hate evolution, right?

I understand they all drowned in the flood.

Actually, they claim that dinosaurs were among the species aboard the ark but couldn't survive in the post-Flood world; something to do with atmospheric 02 concentrations being vastly lower after the collapse of the "fermament".

[Darth Servo]

I was wondering about this. Do creationists deny the existence of such popularly accepted things like cavemen? Do they accept a prehistoric past with a prehistoric man or do they think we were as we are now?

Creationists believe that the very first humans on this Earth already had advanced language skills, as they were speaking to each other and to God about fairly complicated things. So I would say that they probably dispute the notion of primitive prehistorical humans and/or neanderthals who communicated primarily via grunts and hand gestures.

Either that or the primitive people who DID communicate in such a primitive manner were cursed by God after the fact.

[Wicked Pilot]

Wouldn't you get a more accurate impression of what creationist believed by asking actual creationist? I'm sure there's plenty of places out there where you can do just that.

[Darth Servo]

Wouldn't you get a more accurate impression of what creationist believed by asking actual creationist? I'm sure there's plenty of places out there where you can do just that.

Sure but they aren't as much fun as here.

[Admiral Johnason]

Most Creationists I know say that cavemen and prehistorice organisms are a lie created by Satan to damn the logical. Some of those literally say that the college students are going to Hell becuase of our persuit of non-vital knowledge. Translation, none of them finished high school.

[Lord Zentei]

Dinosaurs were also benevolent veggies with a penchant for agriculture help. Don't ask how they vanished without Humanity disappearing too. They probably just decided one day to be birds, no, wait. Creationists hate evolution, right?

I understand they all drowned in the flood.

Actually, they claim that dinosaurs were among the species aboard the ark but couldn't survive in the post-Flood world; something to do with atmospheric 02 concentrations being vastly lower after the collapse of the "fermament".

Ah, so. Damn stupid YHWH, not planning for that sort of thing:


NOAH: Wtf, dude, the dinos all dropped, like, dead, man!

YHWH: Huh? Oh, shit, that's because of the Fermament. Damn O2 levels changed.

NOAH: Say what? So what the fuck did I have to shovel dino shit for 40 days for, You dammnit?!

YHWM: My sakes, will ya cool? Sheesh.


On a related note: is this an admission of Climate Change by them?

[Wicked Pilot]

Sure but they aren't as much fun as here.

I'd have a lot more fun laughing at an actual creationist answer as opposed to one we speculate on.

[Raven]

In Catholic high school, the official position of the school on evolution was ID.

People who believed intelligent design (probably 2/3s of the people, maybe less) also believed cavemen and prehistoric humans existed. Prehistory was taught in first year World History, and IDer's accepted these facts as true. They did believe, however, that God guided the development of pre-human and early human development (as he did the biological development of species).

There were also a sizable number of YECs (maybe most of the remaining 1/3).
I have no idea how they reconciled their beliefs with the facts taught in non-religion classes.
I do know they believed "cavemen" in some form or another existed. Not exactly as the archaelogists say, but they believed a type of primitive man existed after the fall of Adam and Eve - they were among the "evil" people destroyed by the flood.

I don't know if this was ever officially taught by the church; it definately didn't come from the school. I think it was an easy way for YECs to reconcile their beliefs with the popular concept of a "caveman".

Look at it this way: a lot of people believe cavemen existed. Their bones and artifacts are found all over the place. That kind of evidence is simple, easily understood, and consequently hard to plug your fingers in your ears and "lalalalala!" against. You can obfuscate abstract concepts like radiometric dating, because atoms are mysterious and evil and nobody knows what they are. But everybody knows what dinosaur bones and caveman tools are.

I don't think they understood the biological differences between modern humans and pre-human hominids. They believed a neanderthal or other upright-walking, tool-using prehuman was not much less than just a uncivilized human - physical differences could be explained away by their "corrupted state" when they "turned away from God". They rejected earlier, more ape-like hominid species like Lucy, saying the bones were so old and decayed that it wasn't an accurate representation. (A few people believed the alternative rationalization that scientists were wrong or lying, but since the school was not officially a fundie school and had a pretty good science staff, this was a less popular opinion.)

This is basically what came up when the topic was discussed, mostly in religion classes. When the topic (of prehistory and human evolution) came up in science or history classes, I don't recall any objection or debate - people generally accepted what the teachers taught.

[Isana Kadeb]

I think I heard one creationist asserting that Noah had an IQ of 400, thats why he was able to break the laws of physics in building a 400 foot wooden boat (theres supposed to be a 300 foot limit on wooden boats).

[Kojiro]

The last group of Mormons I talked to insisted that God had a physical body and unique DNA, and that we were made in his image. They take the 'father' descriptor literally. When I asked if our ancestors were closer to God, since their genetic codes are undoubtedly different to ours, and they were made first, the answer I got was that humans have always been as we are, and those 'ancestors' as we call them are devolved for not following God's will. I shit you not, that was the line they tried.

[dworkin]

Listen to the popular fundy chant.

"Piltdown Man, Piltdown Man, PILTDOWN MAN!"

Somehow, one hoaxer faking results for funding and fame discredits all palentology.

[thejester]

As for plesiosaurs, et. al. I haven't a clue.

The Loch Ness monster, you fool.

[CaptJodan]

As someone who grew up in an SDA household, I was told the "all dinos died in the flood" line. Of course, at the time I didn't question it because that was the least objectionable part of the flood story. As far as pre-historic man, they've never really directly challenged that question with any semblance of logic that I could figure out. My exposure was that the Earth isn't that old so clearly scientists are wrong. Oh, and man WAS as we are now, and always have been. I imagine "the devil did it to fool us" would crop up if I really asked the question.

Religion is an amazing thing. Otherwise very intelligent, logical people suddenly just switch off their brain and let indoctrination sway their beleifs, even in the presence of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

[Ryushikaze]

Listen to the popular fundy chant.

"Piltdown Man, Piltdown Man, PILTDOWN MAN!"

Somehow, one hoaxer faking results for funding and fame discredits all palentology.

And meanwhile, numerous hoaxes and fraudulent finds regarding 'religious history' only strengthens religion somehow. Ain't the fundy mind a hoot?\

[Ariphaos]

I was wondering about this. Do creationists deny the existence of such popularly accepted things like cavemen? Do they accept a prehistoric past with a prehistoric man or do they think we were as we are now?

I've managed to browbeat Creationists into accepting Homo Erectus as human through repeated examples of "Pick the human, pick the not human."

Very annoying, but, it's a step. I couldn't convince them that the homo erectus did not have modern speech, however.

[Covenant]

I knew a girl in college who quite literally believed Noah was like 20 feet tall, so to him a foot or a hand or whatever they used to base a cubit off of was actually ultra-huge. Me and her gay math-major friend laughed and were like "Good one!" and she was like "No, really." And we both got quiet real fast. Scary.

[Rye]

I think they would say that cavemen existed, but they are much younger than they appear; like after Adam and Eve were thrown out of the garden, they and their offspring lived in caves, and all the different types of human are just deformed humans or apes (or hoaxes), but never an intermediary form.

YEC types tend to believe modern myths about the loch ness monster and reports from africa of a giant dinosaur roaming swamps and the heart of darkness et al. They think that biblical references to Behemoth and Leviathan refer to dinosaurs that survived the flood.