ISD Build Time

Post by **NecronLord** » 2006-05-25 12:01pm

Does anyone know how long it takes to build an Imperial Star Destroyer from start to finish in a major shipyard? I'm thinking something like two months or so...

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2006-05-25 12:10pm

Wasn't it a year ?

I seem to remember something in the Thrawn trilogy when the smugglers blow up an ISD in a ship yard.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2006-05-25 12:19pm

Humm. It's for fanfic, and I'm trying to fudge numbers around so that Fondor launches a star destroyer every twenty minutes or so.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-05-25 12:31pm

I recall there were some numbers from an RPG book.. around 6mths or something.. I know it takes them 6mths to build an MC80. I would think KDY is efficient enough to do it in that amount of time or less.

DesertFly · Post by **DesertFly** » 2006-05-25 04:11pm

Well how big, exactly is Fondor? How many slips does it have? Kuat is said to have a giant space station that circles, what, the entire system? I think that another galactic scale shipyard would have to have something on the same scale just to compete. That's millions of slips right there. Now, I know that Star Wars years aren't exactly the same as ours, but close enough. There are 525,600 minutes in a year, so to have a Star Destroyer launched every twenty minutes, you would only have to have 26,280 slips, and that's only if it takes a year to build one.

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2006-05-25 04:18pm

DesertFly wrote:Well how big, exactly is Fondor? How many slips does it have? Kuat is said to have a giant space station that circles, what, the entire system? I think that another galactic scale shipyard would have to have something on the same scale just to compete. That's millions of slips right there. Now, I know that Star Wars years aren't exactly the same as ours, but close enough. There are 525,600 minutes in a year, so to have a Star Destroyer launched every twenty minutes, you would only have to have 26,280 slips, and that's only if it takes a year to build one.

KDY's yards do not encircle the system. They have at least one station that encircles the planet itself though.

DesertFly · Post by **DesertFly** » 2006-05-25 04:22pm

Jadeite wrote:KDY's yards do not encircle the system. They have at least one station that encircles the planet itself though.

Ahh, that was the other possibility. Even so, that's more than enough real estate for the amount of ship building facilities that I mentioned.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-05-25 05:04pm

I know it takes them 6mths to build an MC80. I would think KDY is efficient enough to do it in that amount of time or less.

Since MC80s were said to be customized anyway, that would undoubtably take more time than a standarized ISD.

I seem to recall Hard Merchandise mentioning Kuati battlecruisers and destroyers undergoing construction, with one destroyer finished by the end of the story, as well as several frigates. Can't remember the timeframe or when they begun, though.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2006-05-25 05:14pm

DesertFly wrote:
Jadeite wrote:KDY's yards do not encircle the system. They have at least one station that encircles the planet itself though.
Ahh, that was the other possibility. Even so, that's more than enough real estate for the amount of ship building facilities that I mentioned.

Not quite, KDY's shipyards are spread across the the entire system(Or at least the deep-space docks are for building various things) while Capship slips are in orbit around one of the various planets.

The problem with the Kaut system is the various sources. One which I used from the X-Wing books talks about multiple planets with hundreds of space-docks and massive amount of working going on. Otheres with just one planet surrounded by construction.

The one I like using myself is the "Kuat is a five(Formaly Six, Sixth was a dead planet torn up for resources) planet system. Two planets of which are used for housing and adminstrative setups. The other two are used in construction and the fith is setup as a in-system vaction/pleasure planet because Kuat guards it's secrets jeliously and does not suggest that it's employee's leave the system(EVER) for any reason so strives to support any possible need insystem. And the works in turn work on the thousands of various construction projects ongoing all over the system.

The problem with Kuat agian is that its' been revised and described so many times by WEG, various EU writes(I think three diffrent descriptions) nevermind the NJO crap we got to long ago. So for fanfic purposes take any description you like.

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2006-05-25 05:21pm

Mr Bean wrote:The problem with Kuat agian is that its' been revised and described so many times by WEG, various EU writes(I think three diffrent descriptions) nevermind the NJO crap we got to long ago. So for fanfic purposes take any description you like.

Off topic, what happend to the Kuat shipyard in NJO?

NRS Guardian · Post by **NRS Guardian** » 2006-05-25 07:21pm

In the NJO Kuat was one of the few shipyards along with the Mon Cal Yards and some others that were defended throughout the war as far as I know KDY wasn't ever attacked, but was isolated and blockaded during TUF. ISDs are usually described as being built in a year or less, usually 6 months. Kuat does have a yard ringing the planet, but it also has refineries and other infrastructure spread across the inner-system. Fondor in the NJO is described as having moons that are being mined to nothingness and yards and infrastructure spread across the inner-system. So it seems Fondor and Kuat are of similar scale.

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2006-05-25 07:51pm

Kuat, Fondor and Corelia are the three shipyard planets, from what I can tell their importance and scale of production is in that order as well, with Corellia seeming to fall behind in military contracts considerably. Fondor, unlike Kuat, has a surface covered by industry, so instead of the mass importation of ship components as occurs with Kuat i'd argue that Fondor is atleast capable of producing a large percentage of its own ship components. Also for every Star Destroyer produced there would need to be thousands of other ships produced aswell, both military and civilian as these planets serve both the domestic and military markets, especially when you take into account the shear quantity of shipping needed to move food to these city/factory covered planets.
In relation to the idea of a SD coming off the Fondor production line every twenty minutes, as Desert Fly said this rate would produce over 26,000 a year, and we know that the height of the imperial fleet was roughly 25,000 SDs in total so it is unlikely that that rate of production would be likely but it is much more likely that there were ships of other classes coming off the assembly line at much faster rates, 3 main shipyards handling the majority of a 2,000,000 planet galaxys shipping needs after all would need to produce a hell of a lot of Ties and other various ships. In Vector Prime I think Luke says that the Vong production time for a squadron of fighters of a week was comparable to both the Empire & New Republic, so to meet the immense need for smaller craft there would have to be considerable production capacity dedicated to fighters alone, perhaps with Fondor alone producing hundreds of thousands a day.

In Empire at War Kuat has a StarShip troopers style space ring all the way round the planet while in earlier sources ship production was centered around giant space stations, a considrable distance from the planet itself (which would make sence with the Kuati desire to maintain their planet as a paradise without shadows and pollution from ship production in close orbit)

Shadowtraveler · Post by **Shadowtraveler** » 2006-05-25 08:22pm

Here's a good bit of info.

Agents of Chaos 2, Jedi Eclipse, pg. 301 wrote: At Orbital Shipyard 1321, the Star Destroy Amerce was nearing completion- one of such thiry massive warships being built at Fondor, in addition to hundreds of smaller vessals. Owing to have to retrofit a flotilla of ships with hyperwave inertial momentum sustainers, several of the major yards had fallen behind schedule, but confidence was high at 1321 that work on the Amerce would conclude within a local month. The launch would finally mean leave for the tens of thousands of shipfitters who had spent the better part of a standard year working on the great ship, shoulder to shoulder with droids and other machines, frequently for back-to-back shifts, and sometimes in zero-g for days on end.

Now, please bear in mind that this is during the New Republic/NJO days, so they don't exactly have to build fleet after fleet of ISDs. Also bear in mind that the New Republic is a bunch of incompotent fucktards and have been sitting on their collective ass for most of the time the Vong have been invading, hence not building fleet after fleet of ISDs like they should be doing.

Now, since there were 19 years between Episodes 3 and 4, and that there were around 25,000 ISDs by ANH...the Empire built around 1316 ISDs a year, assuming everything went on schedule each year. Now remember that this was during peacetime and, as far as I can recall, the GE hadn't fought any apocalyptic, total annihilation-y wars between said 19 years.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-05-25 09:02pm

How extensive is Mon Cal's yards in comparison with Kuat's? Or is it that Mon Cal's yards are as under described as Kuat's...

Given that Fondor used to be the site of the construction of Executor Star Dreadnaughts, I'm more inclined to believe that Fondor could have produced way more warships than during the NR, especially after the Empire I believe combined the independent companies together and nationalised them?

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2006-05-26 12:50am

IIRC the Rebel Alliance Sourcebook specified that a Mon Cal cruiser could be constructed in about six months.

I can vaguely remember a "year" being indicated somewhere but for the life of me the source escapes me (I am definitely thinking pre-NJO EU.. maybe Black Fleet Crisis, or the Thrawn Trilogy. Something.)

I believe the Executor was built at Fondor in six months too.

And WOTC's Rebellion Era sourcebook mentioned that the Empire could build 2 ISDS in the time it took the Republic to build one VSD.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-05-26 08:06am

I'm pretty sure there's a reference in The Last Command about it taking a year to build an ISD at Bilbringi, but then this wasn't at the Empire's height, and Bilbringi isn't Fondor.

The '25,000 SD' number, is that just Imperial-class, or all types of Star Destroyers, from Victory to Eclipse?

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2006-05-26 08:41am

Lazarus wrote:I'm pretty sure there's a reference in The Last Command about it taking a year to build an ISD at Bilbringi, but then this wasn't at the Empire's height, and Bilbringi isn't Fondor.

The '25,000 SD' number, is that just Imperial-class, or all types of Star Destroyers, from Victory to Eclipse?

Imperial class only

Venators, Tectors, Victories and the various Super Star Destroyers (not to mention the far larger numbers of non Star Destroyer ships types.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2006-05-26 08:46am

If the comics are to be believed (and they are canon), according to the TimeTales fan timeline, and supported by various support materials, it only took 2 - 3 months to build Executor (and therefore the Luskanya at the same time)

ISD's they probably build at a rate of 1 a month

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2006-05-26 11:07am

I thought the speed with which the two SSDs were built, with the immediate need for a flagship for Vader aswell as to display the might if the Imperial navy after the Death Star blew up was largely responsible for the immence cost of the SSDs, with Pelleon saying they bankrupted the empire. All the other SSDs that appear have much longer construction times and are built when the empire is not in the best condition, Darksabre for example, so I would assume this quick production time was the result of a massive increase in production cost rather than normal operating procedure.

Also the Black Fleet Crisis books raise the idea that only the hulls and key systems are built at Kuat/Fondor, with the uncompleted ships being sent to regional sector fleet yards to have final systems installed thus freeing up the construction baysa at Kuat/Fondor for additional ships.

Feil · Post by **Feil** » 2006-05-26 03:14pm

Darth Tanner wrote:I thought the speed with which the two SSDs were built, with the immediate need for a flagship for Vader aswell as to display the might if the Imperial navy after the Death Star blew up was largely responsible for the immence cost of the SSDs, with Pelleon saying they bankrupted the empire. All the other SSDs that appear have much longer construction times and are built when the empire is not in the best condition, Darksabre for example, so I would assume this quick production time was the result of a massive increase in production cost rather than normal operating procedure.

Pellaeon is just plain wrong. The Empire built most of a 900-km Death Star--some 300,000 times the volume of an Executor in something like 2 years--while completely concealing the flow of funds and raw materials! The financial and logistical ability of the Empire is practically boundless. The only way the Supers could have bankrupted the Empire is if it were the kind of place where a fleet of 200 pre-Clone Wars Dreadnaughts could turn the tide of a war, and 3 million clones formed the entire Republic army.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2006-05-26 03:21pm

Maybe only a month, no more than two. The original Executor was built in under three months, I think; at the very least significantly under six.

Lonestar · Post by **Lonestar** » 2006-05-26 11:41pm

Gustav32Vasa wrote:
Off topic, what happend to the Kuat shipyard in NJO?

According to TUF it was conquered after the events of Destiny's Way.

Shadowtraveler · Post by **Shadowtraveler** » 2006-05-27 01:51am

Feil wrote:Pellaeon is just plain wrong. The Empire built most of a 900-km Death Star--some 300,000 times the volume of an Executor in something like 2 years--while completely concealing the flow of funds and raw materials! The financial and logistical ability of the Empire is practically boundless. The only way the Supers could have bankrupted the Empire is if it were the kind of place where a fleet of 200 pre-Clone Wars Dreadnaughts could turn the tide of a war, and 3 million clones formed the entire Republic army.

Hmmm....you know, we could rationalize that he meant the Imperial Navy's budget and not the Empire as a whole. Something like the DSII would obviously be paid for with the Empire's more legally ambiguous funds.

NRS Guardian · Post by **NRS Guardian** » 2006-05-28 09:35pm

Considering there are supposed to be at least 24 ISDs per sector fleet and there are thousands of sectors, and including the various oversector fleets and independent commands like Death Squadron the 25,000 ISD number seems a little low. There should be at least 50,000 ISDs in the sector fleets alone, and thousands more in the oversector and offensive fleets.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-05-28 10:10pm

NRS Guardian wrote:Considering there are supposed to be at least 24 ISDs per sector fleet and there are thousands of sectors, and including the various oversector fleets and independent commands like Death Squadron the 25,000 ISD number seems a little low. There should be at least 50,000 ISDs in the sector fleets alone, and thousands more in the oversector and offensive fleets.

I always assumed Pellaeon was actually refering to the offensive reserves the Empire had at its disposal, not including fleets need for defense and policing duties (ie, sector and oversector forces).

Pellaeon is just plain wrong. The Empire built most of a 900-km Death Star--some 300,000 times the volume of an Executor in something like 2 years--while completely concealing the flow of funds and raw materials! The financial and logistical ability of the Empire is practically boundless. The only way the Supers could have bankrupted the Empire is if it were the kind of place where a fleet of 200 pre-Clone Wars Dreadnaughts could turn the tide of a war, and 3 million clones formed the entire Republic army.

Though I'm not attempting to rationalize minimalist numbers, just because the Empire could churn out millions of Star Destroyers in terms of resources at their disposal doesn't mean that they could crew them, at least not effectively. The DSII, though it would have required crew in the tens of millions, if not more, is largely uninhabited. Seven digit ISD fleets would require hundreds of billions of personel, at least. Feasible? Perhaps, but it wouldn't be easy to achieve, even with extensive usage of cloning (they would have to revert back to Clone War level production, no doubt a drastic economic shift).