Police seize klingon weaponry in raid

[Ariphaos]

So what do you do if you're attacked by someone?

Run away, what do you do?

What the heck is it with this kind of answer, anyway? It always assumes that you are, naturally, a faster runner than your attacker. In my case, I'm a horrible runner (I'm lucky to get a 12 minute mile), but a rather large and agile guy. No running for me unless safety is conveniently had.

As Broomstick mentioned, very few people know how to fight with knives.

[Darth Wong]

Wow. I guess that makes sense since we're all just Al Qaida infiltrators waiting for the start of another Jihad.

Way to completely miss the point, moron. Do you even understand the argument that I was answering, and the point that was under discussion? Or are strawman distortions your idea of a valid argument? Where the fuck did you learn to debate? Kindergarten?

Oh wait...

If you lived in East Palo Alto you'd change your tune real quick, or get shanked by a crackhead.

How many times have you actually used a weapon to defend yourself?

<snip a lot of totally unsupported claims>

Just my point of view, and it disgusts me that I have to actually defend carrying weapons in this day and age.

Indeed, it is just your point of view, since you presented no evidence whatsoever for all of these "if you do this, then that will happen" claims you made.

[Coyote]

So, just to get a general concensus, am I to understand that one side of this argument is made up of those who believe that anyone who seeks to own/carry any sort of weapon at all, ever, under any circumstances, is automatically a criminally-minded person?

-It always boils down to two points of view that cannot be reconciled. Joe believes that he will never be safe until all weapons are banned; Bob, his neighbor, believes that he will never be safe unless he has a weapon. The two cannot coexist; in order for one to have peace of mind the other must change his views or leave.

The problem with weapons controls of any sort is that they do away with the concept of "innocent until proven guilty". Weapon ownership is more than just for dealing with an armed mugger on the street. There are times when a weapon can be used to defend yourself and it does not have to be a "Western-style fast-on-the-draw shoot-out" type thing.

There are people out there that should not be armed, yes, but thast is because they engage in criminal behavior-- not that they were peaceful, kum-by-yah singing flower children until one day a knife or gun fell into their hands and they were overcome by toxic spirits. It seems irrational to lump any and all weapon-owning people into the criminal-until-proven-otherwise category. A POV driven by fear, treating the weapon as the apple in the Garden of Eden-- a catalyst against which human rationale is helpless against.

[Darth Wong]

So, just to get a general concensus, am I to understand that one side of this argument is made up of those who believe that anyone who seeks to own/carry any sort of weapon at all, ever, under any circumstances, is automatically a criminally-minded person?

Tell me, were you always this stupid, or is your total inability to comprehend printed words on a screen due to some sort of brain injury?

[Coyote]

So, just to get a general concensus, am I to understand that one side of this argument is made up of those who believe that anyone who seeks to own/carry any sort of weapon at all, ever, under any circumstances, is automatically a criminally-minded person?

Tell me, were you always this stupid, or is your total inability to comprehend printed words on a screen due to some sort of brain injury?

Tell me, have you always been this in-fucking-comprehensive of tongue-in-cheek comments, or are you always just looking for an easy reason to fuck with people? This is by far not the first time you took an offhand bullshit comment by me to heart. You should know by now that I am really into a literary technique called "sarcasm", and I indulge in it frequently. You're the one who says that English is the established language of the board; perhaps introducing yourself to a few of its nuances may enhance your ability to avoid stress-related strokes that are undoubtedly brewing in your future.

[Darth Wong]

Tell me, have you always been this in-fucking-comprehensive of tongue-in-cheek comments, or are you always just looking for an easy reason to fuck with people?

So why does your entire post go on to follow this idiot logic to its conclusion, asshole? I'm sick of the "just fucking with you" style of excuse when someone says something that's fucking stupid. Either post intelligently or don't post at all.

This is by far not the first time you took an offhand bullshit comment by me to heart. You should know by now that I am really into a literary technique called "sarcasm", and I indulge in it frequently.

And yet your entire post contains the same logic: your idiotic notion that people who advocate arms control are treating anyone who wants to carry a weapon as if he has criminal intent.

You're the one who says that English is the established language of the board; perhaps introducing yourself to a few of its nuances may enhance your ability to avoid stress-related strokes that are undoubtedly brewing in your future.

Perhaps if you write something that's fucking stupid, you should blame yourself rather than blaming others, shithead. Do you really think you can rattle my cage by playing this armchair psychologist bullshit on me?

Why don't you explain what your real position is, since you now seem to be adopting the tactic of claiming that your previous post had nothing to do with your actual opinion?

[Glocksman]

The US actually has a lot of knife laws on the books, but most of them are state laws, not nationwide ones, with the notable exception of a Federal ban on switchblades.

Hell, Texas's law is fairly restrictive.

Texas - Health, Safety & Morals - 46.02. Unlawful carrying
weapons. (a) A person commits an offense if intentionally,
knowingly , or recklessly carries on or about his person a
handgun, illegal knife, or club. [Exceptions: official;
actor was own premises; was traveling; engaged in lawful
hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity; security
guard].
- 46.01. Definitions. (1) "Club"... includes... (D)
Tomahawk...
(6) "Illegal knife" means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by
being thrown;
(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto,
and poniard;
(D) sword; or
(E) spear.
(7) "Knife" means any bladed hand instrument that is capable
of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or
stabbing a person with the instrument.
- 46.03. Places weapons prohibited.
(a) A person commits an offense if, with a firearm, illegal
knife, club, or prohibited weapon [includes switchblade
knives], he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly goes:
(1) on the physical premises of a school [or school bus];
(2) on the premises of a polling place...
[(3) a court; (4) a racetrack; (5) secured area of an
airport].
- 46.05. Prohibited Weapons. (a) A person commits and offense
if he intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures,
transports, repairs, or sells... (5) a switchblade
knife... (d) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution
under this section that the actor's conduct: (1) was
incidental to dealing with a switchblade knife,
springblade knife, or short-barrel firearm solely as an
antique or curio...
- 46.06. Unlawful transfer of certain weapons.
(a) A person commits an offense if he... (2)... sells...
gives... offers... to any child younger than 18 years any
firearm, or illegal knife [except with written parental consent].

While I think a total pocketknife ban is ludicrous, there are plenty of laws here in the US that regulate just what kind of knives people can carry in public.

[Darth Wong]

Is anyone besides me amused at the idea that Texas has an unusually restrictive knife law while being the Wild West for guns?

[Glocksman]

Oh, I forgot to add that even gun-friendly Indiana bans so-called 'Chinese throwing stars'.

IC 35-47-5-12
"Chinese throwing star" defined; related offenses
Sec. 12. (a) A person who:
(1) manufactures;
(2) causes to be manufactured;
(3) imports into Indiana;
(4) keeps for sale;
(5) offers or exposes for sale; or
(6) gives, lends, or possesses;
a Chinese throwing star commits a Class C misdemeanor.
(b) As used in this section, "Chinese throwing star" means a throwing-knife, throwing-iron, or other knife-like weapon with blades set at different angles.
As added by P.L.318-1985, SEC.2.

[Glocksman]

Is anyone besides me amused at the idea that Texas has an unusually restrictive knife law while being the Wild West for guns?

Until their CCW law was signed by then Governor Bush, Texas banned individuals from carrying concealed handguns, so I'm not really surprised or amused by it despite the 'Wild West' rep that Texas has.

[General Brock]

Oh, I forgot to add that even gun-friendly Indiana bans so-called 'Chinese throwing stars'.

OK, but I thought throwing stars were Japanese...

I protest the discrimination. I shall maintain the right to bring Chinese knockoff throwing stars to any altercation involving guns, knives, crossbows, and RPGs.

On a more serious note, those were probably banned because of nuisance plinkers, not because they were especially deadly. The incidences of petty vandalism with knives probably goes down too, where they are banned.

[Glocksman]

Oh, I forgot to add that even gun-friendly Indiana bans so-called 'Chinese throwing stars'.

OK, but I thought throwing stars were Japanese...

I protest the discrimination. I shall maintain the right to bring Chinese knockoff throwing stars to any altercation involving guns, knives, crossbows, and RPGs.

On a more serious note, those were probably banned because of nuisance plinkers, not because they were especially deadly. The incidences of petty vandalism with knives probably goes down too, where they are banned.

My state legislature isn't famous for its knowledge of differing Asian societies.
I suppose I'm lucky that the legislator that sponsored the law didn't call them 'Korean' or 'Burmese' Throwing Stars

[Molyneux]

People who carry knives for defence should realise that more people die from their own knives, used against them in a struggle, than actually die from the other person’s knife.

I smell bullshit. Care to back up that statement?

I dont have any statistics for it no sorry, I heard it on my local news station a couple of days ago from a Police officer talking aobut the new knife amnesty so I assumed he wasnt talking out of his backside (probably a mistake with UK police)

For a recent example however;

Stabbed with own blade

Isolated incidents are of dubious value at best. If you can't back up a statement like that, please don't make it in the first place.

[General Brock]

So what do you do if you're attacked by someone?

Run away, what do you do?

What the heck is it with this kind of answer, anyway? It always assumes that you are, naturally, a faster runner than your attacker. In my case, I'm a horrible runner (I'm lucky to get a 12 minute mile), but a rather large and agile guy. No running for me unless safety is conveniently had.

As Broomstick mentioned, very few people know how to fight with knives.

I swore off participation in MA debates, but in this case I will mention that most self defence experts advise avoiding trouble, and if that can't be done, maintaining distance, getting away and avoiding escalation.

Running away screaming "Help! Knife! Help!" before or after surrendering a wallet is generally seen as more survivable than mano-a-mano confrontation. Most aggressors prefer to avoid a scene.

If you can't physically run away from an attacker(s), who already has the advantage of a drawn weapon, what makes having a concealed/sheathed knife an advantage?

I used to carry a bladed tool with me, but I stopped after getting tired of the holes it wore in my pockets. A sheath is bulky in a pocket, and I don't often use a belt. Since the blade didn't lock, using my swiss army as a weapon would probably be clenched, unopened, in my fist, not as a knife. A knife may be a useful tool, sometimes, but so far I haven't been inconvenienced by its absence.

In most instances, if it comes down to a fight, you've already lost and it's all about damage control.

[Jadeite]

Let's look at this from the viewpoint of a criminal.

"Knives are now restricted, do I care?"

Or lets assume that all knives are somehow magically not used in crimes anymore. If I'm a criminal I can:

-Make a shiv.
-Use practically anything as a club.
-Put ball bearings in a sock and use it as a sap.
-Go to any sort of hardware store and easily get a garden or garage tool and use it as aweapon.

Hell, if I wanted to, I can and have built a flamethrower with a 20 foot range. What would I need to set fire to with it? No clue, but I could if I wanted to.

People like me (except more criminally minded) are why weapon restrictions are doomed to fail in the first place.

[Glocksman]

Knives don't make very good defensive weapons because while they can be quite deadly, they aren't capable in most circumstances of instantaneously bringing the fight to a halt like a firearm can.
You can survive a stab to center mass long enough to injure or kill your opponent, while a center mass hit from a .357 Magnum 125 gr. JHP is statically proven (Marshall-Sanow stats) to instantly stop a fight around 95%+ of the time.

Due to that and the fact that it's ridiculously easy for a resident of my state to get a concealed carry permit, on the rare occasions that I think about arming for self defense purposes, I grab one of my handguns, not a knife.

[Glocksman]

That said, Mike's pic of the WTC attacks raises the question of when it's better to resist and when it's better to go along with the attacker.

Noted defensive tactics instructors such as Massad Ayoob have written in the past that you should have a wad of small bills as 'throwdown money' if you find yourself in a high crime area even if you're legally armed in order to avoid having to shoot someone.

That's not a bad idea if for no other reason than shooting someone will put the shooter (unless he's a sociopath) through a psychological Hell, even if you were legally totally justified in doing it.


It's all subject to your own 'read' of the situation of course, but when I worked at a '7-11' type store and legally carried a gun despite company rules to the contrary, I wouldn't have shot a robber if all he did was demand money and leave after getting it.
Instead the gun was there to give me one final option in case the situation deteriorated to me being forced into the back room and then being killed.
I might have died resisting, but better that than to die without resisting.

[Steven Snyder]

Is anyone besides me amused at the idea that Texas has an unusually restrictive knife law while being the Wild West for guns?

Mike

Being a resident of Texas for the majority of my life, I can tell you the impression of Texas being a "Wild West for guns" is more of a stereotypical disortion than anything else.

But to your point, I actually talked to a Peace Officer down here about the point you brought up.

He said the rationale that knives kill people without a lot of noise and can be done without attracting a lot of attention. Guns on the otherhand make a lot of noise and tend to attract the wrong sort of attention for the shooter. Mugging someone with a 30-06 rifle is pretty much unheard of, the weapon it far too large to conceal, not easy to use in close quarters, and makes a lot of noise. So the smaller the weapon and less noise it makes, the more attention the law pays to it.

[His Divine Shadow]

Seriously. You're a moron in a bar, in a society where everyone thinks that casually carrying weapons on them at all times is a good idea, and you've had a few, and some other guy has had a few, you insult his girlfriend, and he looks like he's going to tattoo your face with his fist. Does this escalate into a potentially lethal situation?

Hmm "Check guns at entry along with coat"

Oh sure they could still shoot each other outside later on if they're stupid enough, but if they're that determined to kill each other then put them in a cage and have them fight to death. We've revived the old west as well as the old roman empire in one sweep.

[SirNitram]

A life isn't worth twenty bucks, is really my comment on the 'You're getting mugged! Do you fight or run?'. Not mine or his.

Now, if he does something stupid like tuck his weapon away to count his 'winnings', there's a plethora of fun ways you can fuck someone up with a nice long carkey jutting out between the fingers of a fist.

[Keevan_Colton]

A weapons control debate...and...unsuprisingly no one ever addresses the point about getting your weapon when the dangerous attacker has got the drop on you with theirs drawn...?


Oh, and with the usual little aside where it's admitted that weapons arent for self defense, but for the summary execution of criminals because they've fucked with you. What a charming bunch of fuckwits.


Anyway, the main reason for this is to stop drunken assholes pulling shit with blades rather than stopping muggings and so on.

[His Divine Shadow]

A life isn't worth twenty bucks, is really my comment on the 'You're getting mugged! Do you fight or run?'. Not mine or his.

Now, if he does something stupid like tuck his weapon away to count his 'winnings', there's a plethora of fun ways you can fuck someone up with a nice long carkey jutting out between the fingers of a fist.

It struck me that in that situation one could also pull a concealed weapon which needen't have been drawn for just 20 bucks anyway in the first place.

[Glocksman]

A weapons control debate...and...unsuprisingly no one ever addresses the point about getting your weapon when the dangerous attacker has got the drop on you with theirs drawn...?

I believe I did so earlier:

It's all subject to your own 'read' of the situation of course, but when I worked at a '7-11' type store and legally carried a gun despite company rules to the contrary, I wouldn't have shot a robber if all he did was demand money and leave after getting it.
Instead the gun was there to give me one final option in case the situation deteriorated to me being forced into the back room and then being killed.
I might have died resisting, but better that than to die without resisting.

[Keevan_Colton]

A weapons control debate...and...unsuprisingly no one ever addresses the point about getting your weapon when the dangerous attacker has got the drop on you with theirs drawn...?

I believe I did so earlier:

It's all subject to your own 'read' of the situation of course, but when I worked at a '7-11' type store and legally carried a gun despite company rules to the contrary, I wouldn't have shot a robber if all he did was demand money and leave after getting it.
Instead the gun was there to give me one final option in case the situation deteriorated to me being forced into the back room and then being killed.
I might have died resisting, but better that than to die without resisting.

That doesnt address it...it says "I'll probably get killed going for my gun, but it's better than getting killed not going for a gun."

Though I was more annoyed with the likes of starblighter who doesnt understand that escelating the situation is not a good idea.

[Glocksman]

True.
It all depends upon your 'read' of what's going on.

The smart course of action is complying with his wishes if you think you'll survive the encounter as pride heals easier than a gunshot to your chest or the trauma of killing another human being.