Darth Wong wrote:Asshole_Slash has made an argument which contains an unspoken premise: the assumption that everyone who is not a "conservative" must be a Maoist.
Please show me where in my earlier post I implied that. I do not believe that nor do I think that was part of my argument.
Spyder wrote:Lets see if I can guess the response;
Something about communism being the ultimate form of liberalism perhaps, therefore conservatism is obviously the logical opposite?
Nope. I'll try to explain what my thinking was. Anti communism is a definative principle for conservatives. If you asked a conservative (pre 1990's lets say, just for simplicity because communism was still around back then) what there political beliefs were, anti communism would be one of the central ones. However, being anti communist does not automatically make you a conservative. It merely means you agree with conservatives on the issue of communism. Or, that conservatives agree with you. Same difference.
Pablo Sanchez wrote:So, if someone opposes the extremist Left, he is a conservative?
Nope. Not once have I said that Lennon himself was conservative. I think that it is pretty clear he is not. That being said (and assuming his political beliefs follow the words of the song), he appears to agree with conservatives on principle that extreme, Maoist/Stalinist communism is bad. That belief is a conservative one. Aparrently, it is also a "utopian Communist/pacifist" (
lennon-ist) belief. Since this song expresses a belief that conservatives agree with, then it can be classified as a conservative song. It could also be a "utopian communist/pacifist" song, because on the issue that the song deals with, both politcal movements agree.
Pablo Sanchez wrote:"We all want to change the world," "you better free your mind instead," "we're doing what we can" (to help change the world). These don't sound very conservative to me, maybe you could point out to me which part of the fucking song is conservative.
John Lennon wrote:You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
Everybody, no matter there political belief, wants to change the world in some way. And the way this verse is said, it implies that Lennon is against, or at least hesitant towards "revolution." Sounds a bit conservative to me.
John Lennon wrote:You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out
I'll give you that this line is pacifist, and that pacifism is not conservative. However, loosely interpreted, this line just says that Lennon wants no part of
communist violence and destruction. Thats kind of conservative. All in all, while tis verse may tend towards being un conservative, it doesn't counteract or outweigh the general message of the song.
John Lennon wrote:Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
I would interpret this verse as meaning that, either by leaving things the way they are, or by working through the system peacefully as opposed to a violent revolution, that things are going to "be all right." While maybe not strictly conservative, this definately tends towards conservatism.
John Lennon wrote:You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We're doing what we can
This verse says no, I don't want to give you a "contribution," I'll do my own thing because I think my own thing will be better than your communism. Thats fairly conservative.
John Lennon wrote:But when you want money
for people with minds that hate
All I can tell is brother you have to wait[
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
Ah
ah, ah, ah, ah, ah...
You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You better free you mind instead
Now by "free your mind," does Lennon mean do drugs? If not, then this means that you should change your head instead of the constitution, and "free your mind" from revolutionary violent communist beliefs, because they are more of a problem than "the institution." Yup, thats conserative.
John Lennon wrote:But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
This last bit with Mao is blatantly anti communist, and thus conservative.
Overall, this song was not writen as a conservative song. To Lennon, it would be a "utopian communist/pacifist" song. To someone with conservative beliefs, since this song agrees with there beliefs, it would be a conservative song.