Flak guns in ROTS

LongVin · Post by **LongVin** » 2006-06-03 11:09pm

Right now I am watching ROTS on one of the 8 HBO channels I get. Its the very beginning of the movie and during the battle I am noticing puffs of black smoke appearing out of nowhere.

Now these puffs of smoke look exactly like a flak shell exploding. So does this mean either the Republic or the Seperatists use Flak guns or is there some other explanation?

I cant fathom a reason why they would just use a flak gun since the power of shrapnel would obvioulsy do nothing against shields or even armor of a typical star wars ship.

Rawtooth · Post by **Rawtooth** » 2006-06-03 11:20pm

There are flak guns involved, as the novelization states.

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-06-03 11:35pm

Flak guns can be pretty effective against unshielded starfighters-- as was the case with most droid fighters and Actis inteceptors.

LongVin · Post by **LongVin** » 2006-06-04 12:54am

000 wrote:Flak guns can be pretty effective against unshielded starfighters-- as was the case with most droid fighters and Actis inteceptors.

wouldn't the armor still be too strong for fragmentation to be of any effect?

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-06-04 03:39am

Well you'd think so based on current technology levels, since an unshielded fighter's armour has to be capable of deflecting micro-meteorites and the like impacting the hull at incredible speeds. Presumably therefore these bursts are either some form of very advanced flak weaponry, or another weapon that only takes on the appearance of flak.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2006-06-04 09:20am

it should be noted while it may not cause any damage, a flak brust may be enough to mess with the piloting of a fighter (by adding unexpected new force (blast wave and any shrapnel hitting the fighter)

PREDATOR490 · Post by **PREDATOR490** » 2006-06-04 10:22am

Lord Revan wrote:it should be noted while it may not cause any damage, a flak brust may be enough to mess with the piloting of a fighter (by adding unexpected new force (blast wave and any shrapnel hitting the fighter)

Those kind of weapons would be excellent against ejected pilots... rather gruesome but highly effective at taking out large concentrations of objects that are small and vulnerable.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-06-04 10:29am

Thats a bit of a narrow use for a weapon really. Why bother mounting a weapon which can only cause damage to non-combatants? A point defense laser, ion cannon or warhead launcher would be more effective. Same with your idea Revan, I can't see how the use of a weapon to 'shake pilots up a bit' is legitimate use of a vessels weapons mounts. Anyway, wouldn't inertial compensators prevent any physical effects anyway? Its surely far more likely that the weapons are some form of area-of-effect anti-starfighter weapon; to be powerful enough to cause damage it would have to be exotic in some way. Perhaps the shells use hypermatter or somesuch to force the shrapnel out at extreme velocities.

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2006-06-04 10:34am

Has anybody had this idea before? - What if the flak guns are a kind of 'Chicken-Out Golden BB' defense, where ridiculously cheap, simple, reliable projectile weapons are intended to be concentrated into fighter formations such that they scatter just in case something finicky gets hit with all those tiny bits of shrapnel spraying everywhere. Hell, with SW tech they could be thermonuclear shells.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-06-04 11:01am

Hmm... the Soviets/Russians use nukes for anti-Ballistic missle defence (kinda like fighting fire with fire)... probably the most effective around right now... I say nukes with huge blast radius would fit the bill.

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2006-06-04 11:24am

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Hmm... the Soviets/Russians use nukes for anti-Ballistic missle defence (kinda like fighting fire with fire)... probably the most effective around right now... I say nukes with huge blast radius would fit the bill.

Well, by thermonuclear i meant 'weak/common', by SW standards. Just a shell version of a concussion missile/proton torpedo that might manage to kick a relativistic speck right through a cracked armour plate or something. Harassment weapons.

Jaepheth · Post by **Jaepheth** » 2006-06-04 01:51pm

Maybe they're anti-warhead or scatter matrerial designed to interfere with enemy transmitions or weapons locking systems?

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-06-04 04:16pm

Sub munitions with SW grade explosive might be a good starfighter/area weapon.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-06-04 09:06pm

Although it's much higher up the scale than that flak, the Slave I's seismic charges show that area-effect, anti-starfighter ordnance does exist in relatively small packages.
Those flak puffs, although they clearly use a different physical mechanism, could very well be energetic enough to damage starfighters near to the blast.

Jaepheth wrote:Maybe they're anti-warhead or scatter matrerial designed to interfere with enemy transmitions or weapons locking systems?

Some sort of chaff? Maybe.

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2006-06-04 11:33pm

Cykeisme wrote:
Jaepheth wrote:Maybe they're anti-warhead or scatter matrerial designed to interfere with enemy transmitions or weapons locking systems?
Some sort of chaff? Maybe.

That's quite interesting. An out-there idea idea i just had is that, given that Seismic Charges are generally considered to produce an exotic forcefield effect and that ECM in the Death Star Trench Run was physically restricting the X-Wings' maneuverability, we could even imagine that these weapons are intended for 'long-range ECM'. Forcefield generators may be limited to affecting the surrounding area, whereas a bunch of shells can fly long distances and then detonate like SW-tech EPFCGs.

Shadowtraveler · Post by **Shadowtraveler** » 2006-06-05 12:11am

I would say it's just a flak round, considering it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck.

Of course, then there's the Canadian Quacking Cat....

Vanas · Post by **Vanas** » 2006-06-05 02:52pm

Cykeisme wrote:Although it's much higher up the scale than that flak, the Slave I's seismic charges show that area-effect, anti-starfighter ordnance does exist in relatively small packages.
Those flak puffs, although they clearly use a different physical mechanism, could very well be energetic enough to damage starfighters near to the blast.

Wasn't there some hugely expensive flak missile device in one of the books? I recall it doing unspeakable things to a group of Y-wings.

As for the flak bursts, I'm not sure. Not sheild impacts like we see with the LAAT in AotC, as there's nothing there. Maybe it's one of those psychological things, filling the sky with flasing lights and smoke to confuse and channel fighters. You know, like opening up with a warship's MGs against low-flying fighters, Falklands style. Might not hit anything, but you sure as hell make sure they don't want to come closer.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2006-06-05 04:21pm

Vanas wrote:

Wasn't there some hugely expensive flak missile device in one of the books? I recall it doing unspeakable things to a group of Y-wings.

I don't remember the one your talking about but according to the EGV&V the Mon Cal ships mount blisters on their hulls that detonate area effect grenades at a short distance from the hull to counter fighters. If, I recall correctly they sounded somewhat like the reactive armor employed by modern tanks.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2006-06-05 04:32pm

Vanas wrote:
Cykeisme wrote:Although it's much higher up the scale than that flak, the Slave I's seismic charges show that area-effect, anti-starfighter ordnance does exist in relatively small packages.
Those flak puffs, although they clearly use a different physical mechanism, could very well be energetic enough to damage starfighters near to the blast.
Wasn't there some hugely expensive flak missile device in one of the books? I recall it doing unspeakable things to a group of Y-wings.

Diamond-boron missile. The damage was apparently from the size of the explosion, not from any sort of 'flak' effect IIRC.

Lord Insanity · Post by **Lord Insanity** » 2006-06-06 01:56am

In Ep1 when they were first leaving Naboo the turbolasers were "flak-bursting" all around the ship when they didn't hit it out right. That actually happens more often than not in all the movies. The first scene in Ep4 is the only one I can think of off the top of my head were the bolts don't do that.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-06-06 07:04am

The anti starfighter blisters which Spartan talks about were detailed in the EGW&T as 'Cluster Bombs'. They are mounted on Mon Cals, Nebs etc and are 'effective close range anti-starfighter weapons'. Apparently they emit readings similar to a sensor array, which attracts fighters to a target of opportunity. The cluster bombs then detonate when a group of enemy fighters comes close enough, thrusting shrapnel and 'magnetised' proton and concussion grenades. These grenades then home in on fighters, effectively creating a minefield.

There is at least one instance in the EU of the cluster bomb's use. During the Thrawn campaign, the Chimaera jumped a convoy which was escorted by a Neb, and Thrawn warned fighters away from a cluster bomb on the vessels hull, which nevertheless exploded and took a few Interceptors with it.

As for the turbolaser 'flak' effect, I'm pretty sure that's been discussed already, but I'm not sure what the outcome was.