What is so Frightening about Human Sexuality?

[Stravo]

We've seen the threads dealing with the censorship of porn, the abject terror of gay people marrying, the uncomfortableness of speaking to your child about sex, etc.

What is it about human sexuality that is so scary/embarassing? Is it really as simple as blaming the Judea/Christian religions? And if is on religion's doorstep what is it about human sexuality that god doesn't like? Is it more than that? Is there something about human society that is distinctly uncomfortable with sex?

Talk to me.

[Darth Wong]

I'm guessing it boils down to a man's knowledge of his own base instincts. Put simply, we're pigs, so we always assume that every other man is a pig too. That means that on some level, we're consciously or subconsciously afraid that every man is a potential rapist or molester, and we figure that a social atmosphere of restrictiveness about sexuality will tend to suppress that innate tendency. After all, we have our wives and daughters to worry about.

That's probably why we're so much more uncomfortable with gays as opposed to lesbians. In our chauvanistic way, we assume that lesbians would never molest anyone or rape anyone, because they're women. Homosexual men, on the other hand ...

[Molyneux]

I'm guessing it boils down to a man's knowledge of his own base instincts. Put simply, we're pigs, so we always assume that every other man is a pig too. That means that on some level, we're consciously or subconsciously afraid that every man is a potential rapist or molester, and we figure that a social atmosphere of restrictiveness about sexuality will tend to suppress that innate tendency. After all, we have our wives and daughters to worry about.

That's probably why we're so much more uncomfortable with gays as opposed to lesbians. In our chauvanistic way, we assume that lesbians would never molest anyone or rape anyone, because they're women. Homosexual men, on the other hand ...

I take offense at your characterization of all men as pigs, both because I feel that it is deeply flawed and since, well, I really don't like pigs. They're just creepy animals.

Every human being struggles between ethics and instinct; the only 'pigs' are those who allow instinct to rule them.

[NecronLord]

Every human being struggles between ethics and instinct; the only 'pigs' are those who allow instinct to rule them.

Precisely what Lord Wong was saying. And subconciously, people worry about said base instincts.

[FSTargetDrone]

What is it about human sexuality that is so scary/embarassing? Is it really as simple as blaming the Judea/Christian religions? And if is on religion's doorstep what is it about human sexuality that god doesn't like? Is it more than that? Is there something about human society that is distinctly uncomfortable with sex?

A large part of it really does seem the simply be the bizarre attitudes towards sex by current and past religious institutions. When you're talking about an organization (such as the Catholic Chruch) that sees human sexuality as something special and sacred, a gift from its very God, to be used primarily to produce offspring, and never for a form a pleasure shared between consenting adults outside of marriage, then it's easy to see where these warped views come from. Sex is to be hidden, especially from children, and discussed only in the briefest of ways. The idea that people would have sex purely for pleasure must be really alarming to a people who are part of an institution that sequesters them from there sexuality. And when you challenge them with the notion that there is no explicit banning of sex (let alone marriage) for priests and nuns in the Bible, it really gets them into a twist.

They seem to see sex as a necessary evil. Quick, do it let me pass my seed into your sinful womb and then we can pray about it after. YOu know? Apparently that polygomist society that's been in the news lately has an even tighter control on its members engaging in sex. From a few interviews I've seen given by people who have escaped, it seems they have sex only to produce children. Then again, some of these men have multiple wives (who seem to be forced to endure frequent pregnancies, so these very men are getting a bit more action than another man who is in a marriage with just one wife, who only has sex for reproduction.

[Drooling Iguana]

People who feel fulfilled in their everyday lives typically don't need to constantly turn to religion to fill in whatever they're lacking. Therefore, in order it perpetuate itself, it makes sense for a religion to attempt to demonise a basic human urge, thereby leaving all of its congregation with at least one gaping hole in their lives. Sex works well for that, since everyone instinctively wants it, but unlike things like food and air we can survive without it and continue to contribute to the Church's coffers.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Therefore, in order it perpetuate itself, it makes sense for a religion to attempt to demonise a basic human urge, thereby leaving all of its congregation with at least one gaping hole in their lives. Sex works well for that, since everyone instinctively wants it, but unlike things like food and air we can survive without it and continue to contribute to the Church's coffers.

Plus, it's great for producing guilt trips. Notice that it isn't just sex that's usually bad, but lust as well. It's human nature; tell someone not to think of something, and that is what they will think of. Tell someone that lusting after someone else is bad, and they'll constantly be thinking about how they look naked, and feel guilty the whole time.

As well, the repressive religions tend to be very much into negativity; no sex, no music, no fun of any kind; and we're all filthy scummy sinners who deserve punishment and should thank God for not immediately destroying us. That's another reason they don't like sex; it makes people happy, and they don't approve of happiness.

[Pablo Sanchez]

In 1984 Orwell said (by way of the Party) that sexuality had got to be suppressed because it represented ecstasy, a goal, an escape, and a society of two, all completely separate from the larger organization. That is, sex is an end in itself, disassociated with the Party (or, equally, the church); a good sexual relationship can be more rewarding that anything else, and it acts between two people, man to woman--or man to man, woman to woman, whatever--in a way that the larger controlling group can't control or replicate. This, in turn, creates an escapist second life for the sexual person that doesn't come from the Party/church. This is the power dynamic justification for demonizing sexuality.

Another reason is that it's just good business. By identifying the most basic biological imperative (reproduction) as sinful, the Church ensures unlimited repeat business. Apart from very unusual exceptions, everybody will have sexual desires, and if you train them to revile themselves for it, they will always go back to the church for forgiveness and healing.

A third reason is more benign and based on the primitive societies in which the anti-sex religions had their basis. Simply, the importance of patrimony and maintaining geneologies in early societies (see the Book of Numbers) means that people having lots of sex is bad, because it can result in illegitimacy--especially since there's no contraception. This starts as a simple "only have sex with women who are definitely in your household, and adultery on their part is punishable by death," but over time it can extend to all sexual activity.

[Alan Bolte]

With the possible exception of some nobles, it had been impossible to keep intimate knowledge of sexuality away from children until the industrial age. Relatively public sex was a fact of life, varying with place and time. I wouldn't assume that fornication was any less common historically than it is now: it just produced a lot more children, and earlier. The current variation of 'sex is evil' is fairly recent, perhaps stemming from Victorian times. That's not to say that the religious position on sex was any different than is being discussed; I just thought a bit of context was in order. I'd agree with Lord Wong on the likely origins of anti-sex beliefs, but that's just a guess on my part.

[Ford Prefect]

Odd that this topic appears when I've started to consider it myself in regards to my girlfriend*. There is a societal belief that human sexuality is a 'bad thing' and I really can't find any good reason for it on a societal level outside of the influence (in my country at least) of Christianity and the puritan values which have been touted by the Church for the longest time. I find Darth Wong's reasoning quite interesting, and I must wonder if that didn't figure into the Church's whole "Sex is a baaad thing, m'laddos" attitude.

*Note that ours is an odd case.

[PainRack]

Perhaps monotheistic religions require a universal "sin" for everyone so that their power could be secured. Therefore, sin.

Beside, I think that its only "human" for sex to raise extremely strong issues, considering what we do because and for it.

[dragon]

But why is it that its mostly Americans that feel that way, Europeans are very comfortable with sex, nudity, gays, drugs and so forth. Is it because they teach the kids at a young age its nothing to be ashamed of. Hell the schools gyms teams share common locker rooms here in Germany.

[Zor]

In my opinion, its because our insticts worked against a stable civilization early on. Humans have an abnormally long childhood for any animal, a considerable vunerability as children, suffer from a good deal of Deaths in birthing as well as being constantly sexually active. For the sake of maintaining order, some level of personal restraint is nessisary for any human civilization to work properly. This is the reason why marage exists, a partnership to assist in the caring of children during there years as well as some of the sexual moors (think being an unmaried woman with a child is tough today, try being one a thousand years ago). Like many facits in society rules interwoven with religion in which rules got fiddled and twisted around with over the centuries, Christianity's strict rules on the subject (along with Patriarchy and such) are simply an extreame version of said rules, combine this with the Fear of Damnation (a core element in Christian theology and still present today) and you have a strong cultural fear of Sex.

Zor

[Darth Wong]

It's also worth noting that a lot of sexually repressed people probably have terrible sex lives, so the jealousy and frustration factor will come into play when they think about hot young people having wild uninhibited sex.

[DPDarkPrimus]

It's also worth noting that a lot of sexually repressed people probably have terrible sex lives, so the jealousy and frustration factor will come into play when they think about hot young people having wild uninhibited sex.

They hate and despise sex because they are so lousy at it- but they're lousy at it because they act like they shouldn't be doing it. Like many irrationalities, it's self-perpetuating.

[Frank Hipper]

But why is it that its mostly Americans that feel that way, Europeans are very comfortable with sex, nudity, gays, drugs and so forth. Is it because they teach the kids at a young age its nothing to be ashamed of. Hell the schools gyms teams share common locker rooms here in Germany.

I blame the Puritan heritage of "If it's enjoyable, it's from Satan".

Fuck, my Southern Baptist grandfather felt that too much laughter was sinful.

[Elaro]

Well, I thought that (for modern society, anyway) humans didn't like to think about the whole sex thing for two reasons:

First, sex is, or was, primarily about making babies, and making babies is about surviving, not as individuals, but as a species, so sex reminds us of our own mortality. (In this vein, Judeo-Christian authorities might have seen sex as another way of achieving immortality, through children, instead of their way, through reaching 'God'.)

Secondly, sex reminds us that we are still animals, like dogs, sheep, or monkeys. Most individuals don't like to think of themselves as animals.

Well, that's what I think.

[Surlethe]

Well, I thought that (for modern society, anyway) humans didn't like to think about the whole sex thing for two reasons:

First, sex is, or was, primarily about making babies, and making babies is about surviving, not as individuals, but as a species, so sex reminds us of our own mortality. (In this vein, Judeo-Christian authorities might have seen sex as another way of achieving immortality, through children, instead of their way, through reaching 'God'.)

I really don't see how that follows. Admittedly, I'm a virgin, but nowhere in my mind do I associate "I want to fuck" with "I'm going to die". Sex is primarily about procreation, but it's so fun precisely because it's so important; it would follow, then, that humans want to do it even when it's not necessary. You could think about this in an analogy to games: they're ritualistic training for war, but because they're fun, we play games even when we're not preparing for war.

[wilfulton]

What is it about human sexuality that is so scary/embarassing? ...

Talk to me.

The results

[wolveraptor]

In 1984 Orwell said (by way of the Party) that sexuality had got to be suppressed because it represented ecstasy, a goal, an escape, and a society of two, all completely separate from the larger organization. That is, sex is an end in itself, disassociated with the Party (or, equally, the church); a good sexual relationship can be more rewarding that anything else, and it acts between two people, man to woman--or man to man, woman to woman, whatever--in a way that the larger controlling group can't control or replicate. This, in turn, creates an escapist second life for the sexual person that doesn't come from the Party/church. This is the power dynamic justification for demonizing sexuality.

To quote Julia: "When you make love you're using up energy; and afterwards you feel happy and don't give a damn for anything. They can't bear you to feel like that. They want you to be bursting with energy all the time. All this marching up and down and cheering and waving flags is simply sex gone sour. If you're happy inside yourself, why should you get excited about Big Brother and the Three-Year Plans and the Two Minutes Hate and all the rest of their bloody rot?"

[Lusankya]

But why is it that its mostly Americans that feel that way, Europeans are very comfortable with sex, nudity, gays, drugs and so forth. Is it because they teach the kids at a young age its nothing to be ashamed of. Hell the schools gyms teams share common locker rooms here in Germany.

I think it tends to be an anglosphere thing in general. It's just that America has a more powerful religious presence to back up the anglo culture.


ROAR!!!!! says GOJIRA!!!!!

[The Yosemite Bear]

I'm guessing it boils down to a man's knowledge of his own base instincts. Put simply, we're pigs, so we always assume that every other man is a pig too. That means that on some level, we're consciously or subconsciously afraid that every man is a potential rapist or molester, and we figure that a social atmosphere of restrictiveness about sexuality will tend to suppress that innate tendency. After all, we have our wives and daughters to worry about.

That's probably why we're so much more uncomfortable with gays as opposed to lesbians. In our chauvanistic way, we assume that lesbians would never molest anyone or rape anyone, because they're women. Homosexual men, on the other hand ...

I take offense at your characterization of all men as pigs, both because I feel that it is deeply flawed and since, well, I really don't like pigs. They're just creepy animals.

Every human being struggles between ethics and instinct; the only 'pigs' are those who allow instinct to rule them.

We're talking about the ignorant lowest common denominations those folks are very true to mike's description. Also "pigs" is on topic as biochemically pigs are closet to humanity particularly in terms of immune system and their nutritional value.

[Venomous]

But why is it that its mostly Americans that feel that way, Europeans are very comfortable with sex, nudity, gays, drugs and so forth. Is it because they teach the kids at a young age its nothing to be ashamed of. Hell the schools gyms teams share common locker rooms here in Germany.

As comfortable as Europeans may be about sexuality there are still those who would abuse that nature to serve their own urges. No matter where you live in the world, no matter how open or closed the discussion of sexuality is... there are child molesters, rapists, and humans being used as sex slaves. This proves that no matter where your religious values lie, the human desire can compromise that value. I.E: you can teach a child to have a healthy attitude about sex and nudity, let em run free and nude on a beach... but someone will be there taking pictures to get their jollies from it.

So I don't always thinks its about predjudice but about caution.