Would you follow Palpatine..

[Trytostaydead]

Been watching EpIII on HBO again, and I was wondering, if you had a mentor like Palpatine who treated you like he did to Anakin before the transformation, grandfatherly, protective, etc.. would you have a hard time turning against him knowing what he is?

[Qwerty 42]

Absolutely it would be a challenge. I like to think that I would turn away from him, although whether or not I actually would is a whole different animal.

[NecronLord]

Been watching EpIII on HBO again, and I was wondering, if you had a mentor like Palpatine who treated you like he did to Anakin before the transformation, grandfatherly, protective, etc.. would you have a hard time turning against him knowing what he is?

No. Because I'm not thick as a brick. The second it's revealed that he's a teradeathcrime committing Sith Lord, it would be obvious that he's a creepy old man who's been lusting after my power for his own ends. Lightsaber straight through old bastard's face.

Can you imagine just how betrayed Anakin should feel, realising that this 'mentor' has been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of jedi and trillions of innocents, and has recently tried to murder his second best friend? If Anakin really was so quick to anger, you'd think he'd be pretty furious, no? I most certainly would be.

[Cao Cao]

Can you imagine just how betrayed Anakin should feel, realising that this 'mentor' has been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of jedi and trillions of innocents, and has recently tried to murder his second best friend? If Anakin really was so quick to anger, you'd think he'd be pretty furious, no? I most certainly would be.

Was it even revealed to Anakin that the Sith Lord was playing both sides against each other? For all we know to Anakin "Lord Sidious promised us peace!" just meant that Palpatine had feigned an armistice to get the Seperatists killed.
Also, Anakin was virtually sociopathic in his obsession with saving Padme. Nothing would take her away, nothing. Palpatine presented a way for her to live and that's what was important to him.

Anyway, as for me.. even if I did know everything that Sidious did.. he basically just accelerated the inevitable; if war wasn't a possibility without him then it would've happened eventually. Possibly with a lot more casualties and the complete fall of the Republic into anarchy.
And if I had a choice between my mentor of many years and a monolithic, stodgy, inflexible Jedi Order who distrust me.. I'd chose the mentor. No contest.

[NecronLord]

Was it even revealed to Anakin that the Sith Lord was playing both sides against each other? For all we know to Anakin "Lord Sidious promised us peace!" just meant that Palpatine had feigned an armistice to get the Seperatists killed.

The entire plot of LoE is that they're close to the Sith Lord. And Anakin even says 'you're the Sith Lord' in the canon. He knows that Sidious is behind the CIS. What with Dooku being his apprentice n' all, he'd have to be monolithically retarded, even by jedi standards, not to figure it out.

Also, Anakin was virtually sociopathic in his obsession with saving Padme.

Indeed. Fortunately, I'm not that dumb/maladjusted. If I'm any kind of judge of my own character, I'm pretty sure I'd be incredibly angry at the revalation that my mentor's the guy who's responsible for the war that's got loads of my friends (and almost me) killed.

[Steven Snyder]

I would be willing to follow in the path of Anakin. Palpatine seemed to be a geniunely likeable guy as far as Anakin was concerned.

However there would come a time when he turned on the "Bad Guy Voice", killed Mace by throwing him out the window while ranting of ULTIMATE POWER, and then asked me to slaughter a temple full of children. At about that point I expect there would be a be an unfortunate accident where he 'slipped on his tea' and broke his neck.

[Big Orange]

Anakin was a fucking sociopath and not particularly bright anyway. He was holding this irrational grudge against his Jedi colleagues and Obi Wan Kenobi. Palpatine was offering Anakin a chance to keep Padme forever and visit retribution on the Jedi Order for Anakin's self aggrandizement. Why turn it down?

[The Jazz Intern]

I'd feel bad about it, but I could turn him in, and not sae him. Heck, I could almost attack him!

[Coyote]

In TPM, after Darth Maul was killed, it was asked "which did we kill, the Master or the Apprentice?" and then, in AOTC and ROTS, the Jedi are openly fighting Dooku-- a person who is fighting on the Jedi side will assume that Maul was the Apporentice and Dooku must have been the Master. Any hint of a third Sith would not be aceptable to them because "always two there are". The Force was blurred and clouded to them, so tales and rumors of the Sith uber-puppetteer might easily have been dismissed as BS until it was too late...

So I can easily see Anakin being sucked along without fear or concern about Palpatine; and by the time he realizes who and what Palpy is he has already gotten involved so deep and put so much of himself behind his support for the Chancellor that it is too late to turn around.

And of course, no matter how many others Palpy may have killed or had killed in his name, he still held out the secret of cheating death, for Anakin and Padme both. Anakin made a judgement call and decided that eternal life for Padme was worth it... that was how his value system had become warped from the little boy that said "the biggest things that's wrong in the Galaxy is that people don't help others..."

[Darth Servo]

In TPM, after Darth Maul was killed, it was asked "which did we kill, the Master or the Apprentice?" and then, in AOTC and ROTS, the Jedi are openly fighting Dooku-- a person who is fighting on the Jedi side will assume that Maul was the Apporentice and Dooku must have been the Master. Any hint of a third Sith would not be aceptable to them because "always two there are". The Force was blurred and clouded to them, so tales and rumors of the Sith uber-puppetteer might easily have been dismissed as BS until it was too late...

Except its pretty well established that Dooku turned to the dark side around the time Maul died and the Jedi know it.

[Spartan]

Coyote wrote:

In TPM, after Darth Maul was killed, it was asked "which did we kill, the Master or the Apprentice?" and then, in AOTC and ROTS, the Jedi are openly fighting Dooku-- a person who is fighting on the Jedi side will assume that Maul was the Apporentice and Dooku must have been the Master. Any hint of a third Sith would not be aceptable to them because "always two there are". The Force was blurred and clouded to them, so tales and rumors of the Sith uber-puppetteer might easily have been dismissed as BS until it was too late...

The Jedi never thought that Darth Tyranus was the Sith Master. He'd didn't have time to become a Sith Lord and train a new apprentice to Darth Maul's stature. Indeed, Yoda never even calls Dooku a Sith in AOTC; only that he is tainted by the darkside.


To ask the original question: Hell no! I'd have to be retarded. The guy did try to have him killed by Dooku. He killed numerous jedi, caused the deaths of billions if not trillions of people. Never mind that he put Padame's life in danger numerous times! I wouldn't be so stupid to challenge him alone though. I'd go get a LAAT and blow up every thing with in 100 meters of him though. Then go tell the council.

[freker]

I think that if anakin had realised that sidious had tried to kill padme, he would have gotten really angry and sodious wouldn't stand a chance.
in fact, all he had to do was push the saber 5 inches forward

[Camel]

If Anakin really was so quick to anger, you'd think he'd be pretty furious, no? I most certainly would be.

Anakin was looking ahead, and planned to let sidious formalize the creation of the empire while becoming even more powerful. Then over throwing him; allowing Anakin and Padme to rule the galaxy and "make things the way *we* want them to be".
He learned to embrace his ANGER and ambitions, and not be a "pawn of the Jedi counsel". Which is exactly what you would have done. No matter how much you claim to embrace hate.

Anakin refused to kill Palpatine when he first learned of his true identity. When asked if he would kill him, Anakin responds:
Anakin: "I would certainly like to."
Then Palpatine adds:
Palpatine: "I can feel your angahh."
Palpatine: "It gives you Focus! Makes you Strongahh!"

I think, he was relying on his Jedi training for empty guidance. Which, among other things, insists you suppress anger at all costs.
If Anakin was truly ignorant and unable to detect Palpatines true identity before that dialogue exchange. Then how could Anakin sense how strong Palpatine was, and his ability to defeat him right there? He may have just been smart, and declined battle against a potentially devastating enemy. I think he was relying on his Jedi training half-heartily initially. Of course he just throws that crap away and does the exact opposite in the end.

He could have chose either of these options:
Ascend to the ultimate power that other Jedi "Didn't even dream of". Have Padme at his side and make everything exactly how *they* want them to be.
Or..
Seemingly, kill Padme with inaction. Accept his eternal role as a second class Jedi. Never trusted or allowed any authority or personal freedom.

I would have done exactly what Anakin had done. With hindsight, I wouldn't have destroyed myself fighting Obi Wan, of course.

[NecronLord]

It's basically, how would you react if your dad turned out to be Hitler and Stalin combined, and you've been fighting in WW2 for several years. I'm pretty sure I'd react violently if possible, and given that Anakin was armed and Palpatine not... Fried sith brains coming right up.

If Anakin really was so quick to anger, you'd think he'd be pretty furious, no? I most certainly would be.

Anakin was looking ahead, and planned to let sidious formalize the creation of the empire while becoming even more powerful. Then over throwing him; allowing Anakin and Padme to rule the galaxy and "make things the way *we* want them to be".
He learned to embrace his ANGER and ambitions, and not be a "pawn of the Jedi counsel". Which is exactly what you would have done. No matter how much you claim to embrace hate.

Kindly don't presume to know me better than I do myself. While the prospect of becoming all-powerful certainly holds appeal, the prospect of becoming a complete monster does not. Nor does the prospect of trusting any duplicitous snake like Sidious with my life. Not to mention, if I've been having various visions and omens about bad shit happening to me and my loved ones, I'm not going to decide that trusting in the most evil man in the galaxy who has been lusting over my potential since I was a kid is a good idea.

Anakin refused to kill Palpatine when he first learned of his true identity.

And I wouldn't.

When asked if he would kill him, Anakin responds:
Anakin: "I would certainly like to."
Then Palpatine adds:
Palpatine: "I can feel your angahh."
Palpatine: "It gives you Focus! Makes you Strongahh!"

I think, he was relying on his Jedi training for empty guidance. Which, among other things, insists you suppress anger at all costs.
If Anakin was truly ignorant and unable to detect Palpatines true identity before that dialogue exchange. Then how could Anakin sense how strong Palpatine was, and his ability to defeat him right there?

This isn't Wankatine. Lightsaber through the head - that's the end of Palpatine. Palpatine was using himself as 'bait,' again, he was unarmed, what's more, he'd not be able to arm himself or counterattack before Anakin got him. I have not been raised by an order of policeman-monks. Even assuming I had a total brainfart and didn't figure out his identity in the opera scene (which, I point out, if you factor in LoE, Anakin really should have) and am merely dropped into the 'revalation' scene in place of Anakin, with his abilities, and relationship to Palpatine, I'm not going to try and take Palpatine alive - I'm going to kill him. If given the opportunity, I'd kill Kim Jong Il, Hilter, Mao, Stalin, and so on too. I am not going to boast, I'm quite aware that killing someone is a difficult thing to do, and normally I'd not be able to, but thankfully, the sheer anger I would have at the revalation that my mentor's been responsible for having most of my classmates and friends killed would more than make it possible.

And that's not even assuming I am at this stage a hardened killer like Anakin was, too.

[Camel]

NecronLord,
Palpatine was armed the whole time. He was wise, he knew Anakin. He knew Anakin wouldn't kill him. Watch the movie. When Samuel L Jackson boldly states that Palpatine is under arrest. Palpatine says:
Palpatine: "It's Treason then.."
*then he produces a light saber that was hidden in his sleeve the entire time*
He could have defended himself against Anakin if his plan catastrophically backfired; and won probably.

If my dad turned out to be Hitler...

I would have been loyal to him to the death. I would never betray my family, especially not my father. Even provided that I had a luger and was alone with "hitler". No, I would destroy the milky way before I would kill my father.

[NecronLord]

Palpatine was armed the whole time.

You haven't read the novel, have you?

EDIT:

He was wise

Ehehehehheeheh. This is the guy that repeatedly uses himself as bait for traps. Wise my foot.

[GeneralTacticus]

If Anakin really was so quick to anger, you'd think he'd be pretty furious, no? I most certainly would be.

Anakin was looking ahead, and planned to let sidious formalize the creation of the empire while becoming even more powerful. Then over throwing him; allowing Anakin and Padme to rule the galaxy and "make things the way *we* want them to be".
He learned to embrace his ANGER and ambitions, and not be a "pawn of the Jedi counsel". Which is exactly what you would have done. No matter how much you claim to embrace hate.

Anakin refused to kill Palpatine when he first learned of his true identity. When asked if he would kill him, Anakin responds:
Anakin: "I would certainly like to."
Then Palpatine adds:
Palpatine: "I can feel your angahh."
Palpatine: "It gives you Focus! Makes you Strongahh!"

I think, he was relying on his Jedi training for empty guidance. Which, among other things, insists you suppress anger at all costs.
If Anakin was truly ignorant and unable to detect Palpatines true identity before that dialogue exchange. Then how could Anakin sense how strong Palpatine was, and his ability to defeat him right there? He may have just been smart, and declined battle against a potentially devastating enemy. I think he was relying on his Jedi training half-heartily initially. Of course he just throws that crap away and does the exact opposite in the end.

He could have chose either of these options:
Ascend to the ultimate power that other Jedi "Didn't even dream of". Have Padme at his side and make everything exactly how *they* want them to be.
Or..
Seemingly, kill Padme with inaction. Accept his eternal role as a second class Jedi. Never trusted or allowed any authority or personal freedom.

I would have done exactly what Anakin had done. With hindsight, I wouldn't have destroyed myself fighting Obi Wan, of course.

Yes, those evil evil Jedi. How dare they try to keep their students from becoming homicidal maniacs who take out their psychological issues on the galaxy at large. Shame on them...

[NecronLord]

As a Jedi shuttle settled to the landing deck outside, the shadow sent its mind into the far deeper night within one of the several pieces of sculpture that graced the office: an abstract twistof solid neuranium, so heavy that the office floor had been specially reinforced to bear its weight, so dense that more sensitive species might, from very close range, actually perceive the tiny warping of the fabric of space-time that was its gravitation.

Neuranium of more than roughly a millimeter thick is impervious to sensors; the standard security scans undergone by all equipment and furniture to enter the Senate Office Building had shown nothing at all. If anybody had used an advanced gravimetric detector, however, they might have discovered that one smallish section of the sculpture massed slightly less than it should have, given that the manifest that had accompanied it, when it was brought from Naboo amoung the then-ambassador's personal effects, clearly stated that it was a piece of soild-forged neuranium.

The manifest was a lie. The sculpture was not entirely solid, and not all of it was neuranium.

...

The darkness within the sculpture whispered of the shape and feel and every intimate resonance of the device it cradled. With a twist of its will, the shadow triggered the device.

The neuranium got warm.

A small round spot, smaller than the circle a human child might make of thumb and forefinger, turned the color of old blood.

Then fresh blood.

Then open flame.

Finally a spear of scarlet energy lanced free, painting the office with the color of stars seen through the smoke of burning planets.

Palpatine was unarmed until Mace Windu's posse was actually landing on his office building. This is why sensors didn't detect the Supreme Chancellor carrying a lightsaber around whenever he entered the building.

Even so, he let Anakin put his lightsaber right up to his face without reacting. You seriously think he's so fast that he can draw and parry before Anakin could just flick the saber forwards and burn through his head?

[Camel]

NecronLord and GeneralTacticus,
No, I haven't read the novel(s). I was under the impression that only dialogue and events witnessed in the films are cannon. If that is true... then how am I wrong at all?
Though, I will recognize your obvious superior and dedicated knowledge as far as Star warz shit is concerned :solute: .

NecroLord, I must apologize for not responding to ALL of your points in your post. Apparently we were writing a response to each others post at the same time. I happened to anticipate and answer it like shit.

As far as Anakin's ability to stab the "emperor" in the head....
In my understanding of the force. Palpatine would have known a few seconds before hand, at the very least, that Anakin was going to kill him. He was THE sith lord. Anakin may have been awesomely skilled. Palpatine still would have been armed and would been able to read him enough to react in time to answer his attack.

[NecronLord]

NecronLord and GeneralTacticus,
No, I haven't read the novel(s). I was under the impression that only dialogue and events witnessed in the films are cannon. If that is true...

It's not. The Star Wars canon basically includes everything with the Star Wars label on it, no matter how abominably bad. It's covered here

then how am I wrong at all?
Though, I will recognize your obvious superior and dedicated knowledge as far as Star warz shit is concerned :solute: .

NecroLord, I must apologize for not responding to ALL of your points in your post. Apparently we were writing a response to each others post at the same time. I happened to anticipate and answer it like shit.

As far as Anakin's ability to stab the "emperor" in the head....
In my understanding of the force. Palpatine would have known a few seconds before hand, at the very least, that Anakin was going to kill him. He was THE sith lord. Anakin may have been awesomely skilled. Palpatine still would have been armed and would been able to read him enough to react in time to answer his attack.

Given how conspicuously Palpatine lowers his guard, and reveals this fact to Anakin while unarmed, I suspect he's just trusting in his prophecies again, rather than actually capable of handling things. Look what happened when his prophesying ability failed, after all. He's not a man of caution. He puts himself into absurdly dangerous situations for the benefit of his convoluted plots - Invisible Hand anyone?

So, if anything, I suspect Palpatine would not tell me like that, and try and think up something more subtle and/or just kill me/torture me into compliance.

[Camel]

It's not. The Star Wars canon basically includes everything with the Star Wars label on it, no matter how abominably bad.

Well, you've thrown the very foundation of my argument into question. I don't have time to fuck with this at the moment. Though, I would like to research this and reference this. I must prepare for work and RL. Interesting dialogue nevertheless.
Signing off...

[Surlethe]

The gist of his sudden revelation to Anakin is that Palpating trusts Anakin, as Mace Windu learns to his surprise at the end of their battle. The man is so arrogant, he believes that every time he throws the dice, he'll win -- he is probably the luckiest man alive in the galaxy. Of course, that's not to say he wasn't preparing Anakin for this moment for years; he's been grooming the boy and slowly, subtly preparing the rift between the chosen one and the Jedi order. If I were Anakin, Palpatine would have probably done it in a completely different manner, but in the end, it would have been just as seductive, I think.

[CDiehl]

At that moment, my first desire would be to whip out the sabre and cut the Chancellor to pieces. He didn't just betray me and my trust, but the Republic, and the entire galaxy. However, I'm not sure that would be the wisest course of action. I'd like to believe I'd have the presence of mind to get away from him and go back to the Council.

In addition to telling Windu of my suspicions about the Chancellor, I would be forced to inform him of the other part of the problem, my relationship with Padme and her expecting a child of mine. After all, this is the hook on which Palpatine is hanging his manipulation of me, and the best thing to do is neutralize that. I would ask to inform the Council of my actions at the earliest convenience, and to look after my family. Otherwise, I'd be willing to take responsibility for my decision and accept the consequences of them.

In other words, I would like to think I would act like an adult who actually cares about other people, rather than a weak, cowardly perpetual adolescent. If it means passing up being a Jedi Master, a member of the Council or even the Chosen One, so be it. At least I won't be a slave to anyone ever again, and especially not to a Sith.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

First, after the Opera scene, I'd immediately inform Mace of the Chancellor's words, implying my clear suspicion that he is the Sith Lord. This is prep. I also need to emphasize that we need a little more evidence before we just up and kill the supreme leader of the Republic.

When Palpatine does his schtick and tries to woo me, I decapitate him. I then contact Windu and inform him that the Chancellor was indeed a Sith Lord, has been dealt with, and may have magically teleported with Force uberness to Byss.

[NecronLord]

When Palpatine does his schtick and tries to woo me, I decapitate him. I then contact Windu and inform him that the Chancellor was indeed a Sith Lord, has been dealt with, and may have magically teleported with Force uberness to Byss.

Presumably you wouldn't know about that. But it's quite clear from Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader that Palpatine has yet to learn that technique, anyway.