The Yavin IV medal ceremony

[Gil Hamilton]

*sigh* Again, Wedge got his ribbon/medal/badge for the run, but apperently didn't rate the medal (what ever it's significance) at the end.

Chewbacca didn't rate the medal either, but at least he got to stand up there and be part of the ceremony. C-3P0 didn't do anything and he got to be on the stage too. Wedge was a hell of a lot more involved in the Battle than Han Solo was, since he was, you know actually there for all of it, rather than showing up at the very end of it. Yet he and the other guy weren't even honored at the medal ceremony for destroying the Death Star.

Luke made the killing shot; Han made that shot possilbe. Yes, you can say that Wedge and Biggs and that dude who fueled Lukes X-wing made the shot possible too but they were not right there, at the time of the shot making it happen. The 'support' personel and those who were in the battle, I'm sure rate a medal, but probably not as high as whatever Han and Luke got.

Luke's fueling crew doesn't count, but Luke owed Wedge and Biggs every bit as much as he owed Han. They were both with Luke on the final trench run and which is where they got shot up (fatally in the case of Biggs). They would have been right there if Biggs hadn't exploded and Wedge didn't get his fighter chewed up, and even then he drew fire off of Luke. Both were covering him when he approached the exhaust port and both made it possible for him to actually reach it. If not for them, Vader would have aced him and that would be curtains for the Rebel Alliance. They directly assisted Luke in making the kill shot on the Death Star.

I really fail to see how people here can consider them less brave and less involved than Han Solo, who only there for the last minute and was in the right place at the right time. He spent most of the battle at a safe distance while Wedge and Biggs and the rest of the Rebel fighter pilots were up to their arseholes in angry gunnery stations and Vader's TIE fighters.

It could also be accumaltive; in so far as Han and Luke rescued the Princes from the DS and then again were instrumental in destroying it right afterwards. Again, Chewie got screwed, but Wedge wasn't on the DS after Alderaan.

That may be true for Luke, but Han was already paid off for rescuing the Princess. He gotten his reward and was going to get out of Dodge, hence the fight he had with Leia before the Battle of Yavin.

[RogueIce]

Maybe they just got some civilian medal, while Wedge and the Y-wing guy had a seperate military award? As for Chewie getting to participate, he served as a sort of Master of Arms or was just there because of Han. But he seemed to have a semi-official role in calling them to attention and with the center face bit.

As far as R2 and 3PO being involved, at the time they're pretty much still the personal possessions of Princess Leia (though R2 pretty much becomes Luke's droid later) so that's probably why they get to be up there.

Or it's like the one joke I heard where most of the soldiers are cardboard because all the real Rebel troops are off at Wedge's ceremony.

[Alex Moon]

Han may have warrented the medal because he was the captain of the Falcon, and thus the ultimate decision maker.

[Stark]

I thought in successful/dangerous missions where a medal was struck everyone present/involved got one, regardless of role etc? There really isn't a way to include Han and ignore Chewie without being racist. ZOMG IMPERIALZ ARE TEH RACIST.

[paladin]

The reasoning was that Chewbacca for all his bipedalism, is the "dog" in the movie, the faithful companion, and "nobody gives the dog a medal" according to Mark Hamil.

Yeah, he gots a belly rub and a wookie snack (like a Scooby snack but for wookies)!

[nightmare]

As I've mentioned before briefly, the comic novelization of ANH states that Chewie would get his medal later since Leia was too short to do it during the official ceremony. (One would think he could bend though...) If there's something contradicting it later, I don't know.

[Srynerson]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet but, at least in the Marvel comics, the Y-wing pilot panicked during the battle and broke off against orders. (He later deserted and was tracked down by Darth Vader during Vader's search for the pilot who destroyed the Death Star.) That would be the EU reason why he wasn't honored at the medal cermony.

[Anguirus]

Really? Then we have an EU contradiction! In the X-Wing computer game you play as that pilot. He's named Keyan Farlander, and he's been referenced a few times in the EU. His written account of the battle claims that he was caught up in dogfighting and just managed to survive, but his Y-wing was too slow to get over and help out Luke during the attack run. Never a mention of cowardice, and I believe he is awarded the Rebellion's highest honor for starfighter pilots.

[Srynerson]

Really? Then we have an EU contradiction! In the X-Wing computer game you play as that pilot. He's named Keyan Farlander, and he's been referenced a few times in the EU. His written account of the battle claims that he was caught up in dogfighting and just managed to survive, but his Y-wing was too slow to get over and help out Luke during the attack run. Never a mention of cowardice, and I believe he is awarded the Rebellion's highest honor for starfighter pilots.

Well, I should qualify my earlier statement based on new information. After plowing through Wookieepedia, I found the character I was thinking of (Tyler Lucian). As his bio is written it makes it appear he was not a part of the attack, but merely deserted prior to the battle. My Marvel SW comics are all packed, so if someone else could check the actual issue, that would resolve the matter.

+http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Marvel_S ... _Encounter

+http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tyler_Lucian

[Tychu]

the thing that pisses me off about that battle is that if Han wasnt so cocky, non of the wingmen would have died, plus the trench would have been a walk in the park.

Reason. If Han had been in the battle from the begining and having a ship with a hell of better shield he would be able to take some hits to defend the X's and Y's in the Trench.
2) his reverse turret he has would have been used to shoot the attacking TIEs.

That my friends would have saved some grief. Damn Han Solo and his Ego

Oh and for the Medals Chewie got screwed and Luke and Han recieved medals for the final trench run thats it
I guess they figured they couldnt have a huge cermony (3 more people) since they knew the Empire was coming back in a Day to mop them up

[Srynerson]

the thing that pisses me off about that battle is that if Han wasnt so cocky, non of the wingmen would have died, plus the trench would have been a walk in the park.

Except that (a) being larger, the Falcon would probably have had more difficulty evading the surface guns; (b) Tarkin would have ordered more fighters launched to swarm the Falcon; and (c) Vader would have had the element of surprise on Solo instead of the reverse.

[Tychu]

the thing that pisses me off about that battle is that if Han wasnt so cocky, non of the wingmen would have died, plus the trench would have been a walk in the park.

Except that (a) being larger, the Falcon would probably have had more difficulty evading the surface guns; (b) Tarkin would have ordered more fighters launched to swarm the Falcon; and (c) Vader would have had the element of surprise on Solo instead of the reverse.

your (b) element fails, Tarkin lost because he was to arrogant, he wouldnt have sent more ships. He only sent them because Vader wanted to

(a) fails, the Falcon got by the laser guns plenty of times in the movies, when it was the only ship being targeted. Plus even with Lando flying the Falcon in ROTJ the got by the guns, and was only hit when he flew into that pylon.

(c) the Falcon can take the quick first salvo from Vader and friends with its shields, the Falcon is the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy, the reason why the X-wings blew up was because they took thier shields off so they can get faster and more manuverability. With a fast falcon with a great fighter shield being the "shield" Vader would be a sitting duck


Biggs, Porkins, Red Leader, Y Dudes all died because of Hans arrogance
Remember Lukes statement "come on look around you, you know whats going to happen. We can use you, your turning your back on them". Luke seriously thought that Han would be a major impact on the battle

[Knife]

your (b) element fails, Tarkin lost because he was to arrogant, he wouldnt have sent more ships. He only sent them because Vader wanted to

Disagree; Tarkin had every right to be arrogant with the know set of variables. The fact that only four small ships escaped from the battle out of ~30 gives credit to the idea, let alone that out of the three people who shot at the target, the wanna-be Jedi was the only one who made the shot.

(a) fails, the Falcon got by the laser guns plenty of times in the movies, when it was the only ship being targeted. Plus even with Lando flying the Falcon in ROTJ the got by the guns, and was only hit when he flew into that pylon.

The Falcon got pegged plenty of times by the SD in ESB. So much in fact that her hyperdrive was screwed and one more shot in the aft quarter- she was doomed.

(c) the Falcon can take the quick first salvo from Vader and friends with its shields, the Falcon is the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy, the reason why the X-wings blew up was because they took thier shields off so they can get faster and more manuverability. With a fast falcon with a great fighter shield being the "shield" Vader would be a sitting duck

Funny how those Tie's kept up with her in the Hoth asteroid field then. Both a Cap ship and her fighter screen kept up with the 'fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy' while she was fleeing for her life. Plus, those slow capships and fighter screens were pounding the MF until her hyperdrive and shields in the aft quarter were shot.

[DesertFly]

Biggs, Porkins, Red Leader, Y Dudes all died because of Hans arrogance
Remember Lukes statement "come on look around you, you know whats going to happen. We can use you, your turning your back on them". Luke seriously thought that Han would be a major impact on the battle

Not neccessarily in the Falcon, though. Han was a great pilot, and at that point I imagine the Rebellion was throwing anyone who could fly a snubfighter into the cockpit.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

your (b) element fails, Tarkin lost because he was to arrogant, he wouldnt have sent more ships. He only sent them because Vader wanted to

True enough. I doubt the addition of a space van to the attack would have been enough to motivate Tarkin to send out the main squadrons.

(a) fails, the Falcon got by the laser guns plenty of times in the movies, when it was the only ship being targeted. Plus even with Lando flying the Falcon in ROTJ the got by the guns, and was only hit when he flew into that pylon.

When shot by Imperators, the Falcon was the target of capture, not destruction. Of course it survived the hits; they were meant to wear it down, not blow it up.
And when in the second Death Star run did the Falcon get hit by non-fighter weapons?

(c) the Falcon can take the quick first salvo from Vader and friends with its shields, the Falcon is the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy, the reason why the X-wings blew up was because they took thier shields off so they can get faster and more manuverability. With a fast falcon with a great fighter shield being the "shield" Vader would be a sitting duck

The Falcon may be the fastest hunk of junk, but that bit of hyperbole doesn't mean anything when it comes to military craft, and the Falcon is outrun by Imperators, so there's no evidence it's particularly fast sublight.
And while I don't have the dialogue memorised, I'm fairly certain the pilots never turned off their shields. They arranged them "double-front" to contend with the turrets in the trench, but they returned the geometry to normal when the guns stopped so as to protect against fighters.
Furthermore, assuming the Falcon survives the guns of the Death Star, it suffered damage from four TIEs making intermittent strafing runs. Three fighters, including Vader's heavier fighter, allowed to make near-continuous attacks on the Falcon in the trench could potentially bring down that ship.

Biggs, Porkins, Red Leader, Y Dudes all died because of Hans arrogance
Remember Lukes statement "come on look around you, you know whats going to happen. We can use you, your turning your back on them". Luke seriously thought that Han would be a major impact on the battle

Luke thought Han would be a help; he never indicated he thought Han's participation would "be a major impact". And that's what Han's participation in the initial attack would have been: help. Not the key to a "walk in the park".

And why does Han's decision piss you off? It's a very human thing, what he did. He just went and almost died in what should have been a routine (if off-the-books) shuttle run, risked his life to save a princess he probably never heard of, and got his reward for a long, dangerous day. That he didn't initially join in what was assumed to be a suicide mission is entirely understandable, even if not entirely commendable.

[Drooling Iguana]

It's a well-known fact that the trench run in ANH was heavily based on old World War II movies, and in that context it makes perfect sense for Han, the character who most strongly displayed traits associated with the United States, to sit on his ass for most of the battle, content to allow others to fight while he profited from it, and then swoop in at the last minute and take all the credit.

[Wicked Pilot]

It is possible that Wedge and the other pilot simply declined to receive their awards in public. There are people out there who prefer to just go to their commander's office to collect their medal and certificate and that's that as far as their concerned. There is another possiblity that Wedge is working to get his shattered squadron prepared to redeploy off Yavin before the eventual Imperial onslaught shows up.

[Darth Yoshi]

Wedge's characterization in the EU certainly lends credence to the idea that he declined a public ceremony.

[Isolder74]

It's a well-known fact that the trench run in ANH was heavily based on old World War II movies, and in that context it makes perfect sense for Han, the character who most strongly displayed traits associated with the United States, to sit on his ass for most of the battle, content to allow others to fight while he profited from it, and then swoop in at the last minute and take all the credit.

Yes one in particular.

THE DAM BUSTERS

Great example of a suicide mission if there ever was one.

[Tychu]

It's a well-known fact that the trench run in ANH was heavily based on old World War II movies, and in that context it makes perfect sense for Han, the character who most strongly displayed traits associated with the United States, to sit on his ass for most of the battle, content to allow others to fight while he profited from it, and then swoop in at the last minute and take all the credit.

ok mister i dont understand Democratic politics.
The problem with your little cirade is that 1) During WWII Americans felt it was a European problem much like the fiasco of the first World War. Our Founding father was very adamit that we stay out of European Affairs, and many people to this day believe in this. 2) It was going to be political suicide for FDR and the Democratic party to put us into WWII without the majority of the civilan consent (this coming from a very much Republican) 3) We went in when we were attacked (who cares about the conspiracy theories)
4) We went in when our allies needed us and theres the war

Tell me any nation that is jumping to help another nation fight a war when they dont feel threatend themselves?

PS. The US entered WWI when we intercepted the Zimmerman Note (ie. We where threatend)

[Cao Cao]

One could also twist the whole scene so that the Rebellion is racist (hence no medal for Chewie), elitist (hence no Wedge/other guy) and that Leia fancied Han (hence Han getting a medal).

Hey, it worked for the Empire in the EU..

[Drooling Iguana]

Tell me any nation that is jumping to help another nation fight a war when they dont feel threatend themselves?

Canada wasn't any more threatened than the US, but we were in the war pretty much from the beginning.

At any rate, I was mostly referring to a common perception about the US's role in the war in a joking manner, and didn't intend to hijack the thread into a debate about whether or not you were justified.

[Mr Bean]

Hold on, as someone who's acutal been to several award cermonies. Inculding the handing out of two DFC's I can tell you just what happened.

Typical award cermonies go like this.

Person A comes up, they read his sitation, present his award. Pin it on, shake hands, take a picture with the CO or presenting officer.
And then everyone claps, Person A steps down and Person B steps up.

In the case of crews getting awards(Like a six man crew on a Helio which all were present) they set up togther as one person then step back down as one with prehaps particular memebers of the crew stepping up to get their medals.


Or in other words, there was a whole lot more medal cermiony we did not see. What we saw was the first awards being handed out, the obligotry clap from everyone after each were presented and then the next people would have steped up(Chewie, Wedge or one of the other pilots) but we had a fade to black after the first set of awards rather than be subjected to twenty minutes worth of citation reading, people clapping and others comming to attention and the like.