PS2 vs. Xbox: GPU Technical Comparison

GUTB · Post by **GUTB** » 2002-12-15 10:10am

RENDERING PIPELINES

A rendering pipeline is the largest part of the GPU; it is responsible for taking the raw polygon data and filling them out with textures. Consider these to be like the displacment of a car engine; the more pipelines, the more polygons can be pumped out in a clock cycle.

NV2A: This GPU is completely identical to a GeForce 3, but with two vertex shaders (we'll deal with the vertex shaders later). As such, it has four rendering pipelines. Each pipeline has two texturing units -- that means that for each clock cycle, each pipe can apply two textures to the same polygon. If two textures have to be applied to a polygon for special effects, this can be done without forcing the polygon to go through the pipe again. This is where Microsoft gets it's extremly high fillrate claim -- but having extra texturing units per pipeline has no impact on performance in the case of only one texture is needed for a polygon. One pipeline can put out a maximum of one polygon per clock cycle no matter how many texturing units it has.

Graphics Synthesizer: 16 rendering pipelines, but each one only has one texturing unit, so any special effects need to be passed through again. So, in the case that a polygon needs to have more than one texture applied, the effective throughput is cut in half.

LIGHTING AND TRANSFORMS

Lighting and transformation effects are what are responsible for many reflective surfaces, curved edges, and special lighting effects. This is important for performance, because doing it in software is very CPU intensive.

NV2A: Like the GeForce 3, it has full DirectX 8.1 compatability, and can support all lighting and transformation effects in hardware, freeing the CPU from having to do it. This is crucial, because the 733Mhz Celeron is much to slow to be able to handle this in software mode, and cause 3D performance to drop to almost nothing.

Graphics Synthesizer: No hardware support whatsoever; it relies on the Vector units to supply any special transformation or lighting effects. The Vecotrs are powerful enough for this kind of work without using the main CPU, but it is up to developers to write code specially to make this work.

PIXEL SHADING

The latest and coolest 3D manipulation effect introduced by DirectX 8 are the programmable pixel shaders. This allows developers to program exact shading and lighting effects for every pixel on a texture -- allowing for very high levels of detail.

NV2A: This is where this GPU differs from the GF3; instead of one vertex shader, it has two. Many effects of pixel shading require two passes of the vertex shaders, so having two will save the GPU from having to run a polygon through the shader a second time.

Graphics Synthesizer: Again, no native hardware support whatsoever. The Vector units are powerful enough to provide this, but it is up to the developers to code this in.

MEMORY BANDWIDTH

No matter how matter how many features or pipelines a GPU has, it must in the end rely on texture and geomotry data being fed to it on a regular basis in order to keep itself full and working at top speed.

NV2A: Features a 256-bit bus connected to the main system memory equalling 64-bits for each pipeline with a theoretical top performance of 6.4GB/s. It also supports hardware texture compression, which does cause a virtual increase in texture bandwidth.

Graphics Synthesizer: Has a massive 2,560-bit bus, but only 512-bits is assaigned for texture data to the pipelines for 32-bits per pipe. It is fed directly with a 4MB video buffer of 48GB/s, and beyond that by the main system memory of 3.2GB/s.

CONCLUSSION

The NV2A is the clear leader in features and native hardware support. All of the code nesicary to make use of these features is available to the developer.

The Graphics Synthesizer is a polygon rendering monster, capable or absolutely staggering power. Per every equalized clock cycle, it can output 16 polygons compared to the NV2A's 6.5 polygons.

Faram · Post by **Faram** » 2002-12-15 10:39am

All i can say is all that tecnical stuff don't matter it's the games that matter.

Btw have ps2 and an x-box.

Gta3 Vice City is so fun but Splinter Cell also rawks

C.S.Strowbridge · Post by **C.S.Strowbridge** » 2002-12-15 10:57am

PS2 has better games. End of story.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-15 11:21am

Damn straight. Good X-Box games are few and far between. PS2 r0XX0rz ... or whatever.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2002-12-15 11:23am

C.S.Strowbridge wrote:PS2 has better games. End of story.

Plus outta the b0x it's a DVD player....

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-12-15 11:32am

Vertex shaders and pixel shaders are seperate things that operate at different stages of the 3D pipeline. Having 2 vertex shader units doesn't mean jack shit to the pixel shading performance. Vertex shaders are used for things like shadowing, applying 'bones' to movement and various special transformations. Pixel shaders are used for things like per pixel lighting and other per pixel effects.

Lighting and transform unit is responsible for every transformation that doesn't use vertex shaders (duh) not just special effects. The lighting part is often overriden with a pixel shader program because per vertex lighting is a bit passe nowadays

salm · Post by **salm** » 2002-12-15 11:33am

i´ve only played dead or alive III on xbox and tekken 4 on psII
and doaIII ownez tekken 4.
way better grafics, tag team mode, way cooler intros and outros (the drunken master guy has such a cool outro, the one in which he meditates for a whole year and the seasons go past in fast forward), cooler levels, cooler danger zones...
the only thing that´s cooler n tekken IV is the boxer guy because he´s completely different from the other characters. i hope they develope this and come up with a whole bunch of completely different characters like him in tekken V.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-12-15 12:54pm

Between the two...so far X-Box has Halo(eh) Splinter Cell(personally I like it more than MGS2), and ....ummm Sports games(hey some people dig them a lot)

PS2 has a good slew of games and GTA:VC...so far the PS2 has gotten more playtime with the exception of my Cube which may not pump as many as either but have game I personally get more enjoyment out of(damn PSO and it sucking my time away!!!!)

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2002-12-15 03:16pm

Will GTA: VC come out on the computer?

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2002-12-15 03:16pm

the PS2 is better supported by software houses. And it gives me a handy dvd player in my room so i can watch porn DVD's

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-12-15 03:22pm

Doesn't the X-box have a DVD player?

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2002-12-15 03:25pm

apparently you have to buy an upgrade to get that.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-12-15 04:24pm

The GameCube and the X-Box are both more powerful than the PS2. and are kind of the same power. GameCube can do better graphics but not as fast as the X-Box(if I remember correctly it was like 8 cycles or something ever two seconds for the cube and 4 cycles a second for X-Box) I may have them reversed. But I agree, PS2 has a much wider array of good games, X-Box is all flashy and shit, but good games are few and far between. Ofcourse PS2 has been out for longer and also has all of the old and new PS1 games, a smart move by Sony.

I myself prefer the Gamecube, I grew up with Nintendo, and they usually have quality games, thats not just the same shit, rehashed over and over and over again until the series as a whole is dead. It knows that for a Character to be in a game it doesn't have to be exactly like it was in the previous game. Star Fox: Adventure, Luigi's Mansion, Mario Sunshine, Metroid Prime come to mind. Plus It's going to have all of the RE games on it, which I am a big fan of, although I will miss not getting to play RE Online. And RE:0 was good, it was different, provided some plot hole filler(ofcourse they had to fill old plot holes by making new ones, but oh well), and I, never before playing the original RE, really like the Remake. The Crimson Heads, and especially the Twin Character controlling in RE:0 made it different enough that it was still fun.

Although this is not always true, usually when they do rehash an old game with a few changes they wait before they do it, Metroid Fusion took, what? 8 years to come out, and even though a lot of it is similar, the memories of Super Metroid are faint in my head, and it adds a nostalgia effect to it. Also Super Smash Bros. just added some new attacks and did a hell of a lot of balancing, but it's still fun and we probly won't be seeing the next SSB til the next Nintendo system. Same thing with the new Super Mario cart, from what I heard, but Super Mario Kart 64 came out not long after the N64, and we haven't had a rehash of it every fucking year.

Also if what I've heard from some friends is correct, the Megaman X series will be returning to Nintendo as well as staying with Sony, and FF maybe returning as well(depending on how negotiations go, Sony ownz 11% of Squaresoft, but Squaresoft wants to work with the GBA, Nintendo said not without gamecube support, and FF Tactics will be coming out for GBA soon, so either Nintendo caved, or the next FF(not necessarily 11) will be on the GC.

The whole DvD player thing doesn't mean shit to me, I have a player and a DVD-Rom drive, I don't need a third way to watch The Matrix.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-12-15 04:32pm

Darth Pounder wrote:apparently you have to buy an upgrade to get that.

The Microsoft Empire rears its ugly head once more.

Say, what are the average load times for the three systems, anyway? For most Gamecube non-port games the absolute slowest load time is about three seconds, IIRC.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-12-15 04:44pm

Darth Yoshi wrote:
Darth Pounder wrote:apparently you have to buy an upgrade to get that.
The Microsoft Empire rears its ugly head once more.

Say, what are the average load times for the three systems, anyway? For most Gamecube non-port games the absolute slowest load time is about three seconds, IIRC.

Usually it's longer than that, allthough it's not nearly as bad as some PS1 games I've played. Ussually the Nintendo made games have little to no loading time though.

And also Microsoft just bought Rare complete, for no other reason than to hurt nintendo, and a lot of the Characters they have been working with and been with an agreement with nintendo, DK and StarFox are going to be taken off their list of games they make.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2002-12-15 05:32pm

the only thing the X-Box has going for it is Halo

C.S.Strowbridge · Post by **C.S.Strowbridge** » 2002-12-15 08:14pm

If we're going to bring up teh Game Cube, I played Bomberman on the game cube and it rocked. One of the funniest games I've played in a long time.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-12-15 08:35pm

anarchistbunny wrote:And also Microsoft just bought Rare complete, for no other reason than to hurt nintendo, and a lot of the Characters they have been working with and been with an agreement with nintendo, DK and StarFox are going to be taken off their list of games they make.

Well of course. DK and Star Fox are 1st party creations. Which reminds me. Presumably, the Donkey Kong Country series belongs to Rare, not Nintendo. Seeing as the modern image of DK is from that series, will Nintendo have to revamp the DK design?

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2002-12-16 12:04am

Be some real god damn console gamers and play a fucking Dreamcast! Sega forever!!!

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2002-12-16 09:38am

I still have my Dreamcast. mores the pitty, i was offered buttons for it when i tired to hock it in the second hand shop.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2002-12-16 10:15am

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:
C.S.Strowbridge wrote:PS2 has better games. End of story.
Plus outta the b0x it's a DVD player....

Oh yeah, and the PS3 is rumored to be on the surface, and it's supposed to be able to read one's mind and such...

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2002-12-16 10:45am

You're all evaluating the consoles on good points, but here's the clincher:

X-Box: No point. If all you want to do is play Halo, wait till it hits the PC, because the PC IS BETTER. Ditto a lot of games like NOLF, Medal of Honor, etc. The PC is more flexible and can be more powerful. Rule of thumb: DON"T buy any console games that you can get on the PC. The only redeeming factor is Microsoft's recent purchase of Rare, which will at least give the X-Box a needed shot in the arm.

PS/2: Serious contender. Again with the slew of games you can get for the PC (MGS and MGS2 on PC are a reality). HOWEVER...and people may forget this...you not only get the lots of Capcom and Square games on the PS/2 that you can't get elsewhere, but ALL THE PS/1 games, and therein lies the cinch - the PS/1 has a truly amazing set of games, like Castlevania: SotN and some of Square's best products (also nice packages of old SNES square games on collection CDs, and great classics like Einhander and others). The PS/2 is the system of choice for game gourmets.

Gamecube: Semi-serious contender. On one hand, they have lots of games that you can get on any system (007:Nightfire, some sports games). On the other hand, if you are like me and remember every Mario, Zelda, and Metroid game dating back to the NES, you have to get the Cube just because you WILL NEVER GET THOSE GAMES ANYWHERE ELSE. The bottom line in buying a Cube is, "Am I a Nintendo generation person?". True children of the NES would buy a Cube if all it did was make soft-serve ice cream.