Which Gundam series is worth watching?

[ZShade]

And this makes Zeon with it's colony gassing and colony dropping and nuke tossing morally superior how?

It doesn't. But Feds aren't clean by any means.

You're the one who's claim was "They've never been on top of the moral mountain." They're higher than Zeon or the others were.

But the fact that they sold it to him period brings they're morality into quesiton. They're were quite a few people in the room with a "WTF?" look on they're faces.

That means that they're appeasers, hoping that if they give him what he wants, he'll leave them alone. A far cry from dropping a nuke loaded asteroid on the planet. And incidently, Char's stated reason was to force humanity to move into space, someone you listed as a reason the Feds sucked.

The Crossbone Vanguard didn't, a faction within the Vanguard did. Most of the people on the damn ship that launched them were clueless. If i'm not mistaken they were planning on dumping them on earth.

Um, yeah, the faction led by the leader of the Crossbone Vanguard! And just so you know, Iron Mask's plot to kill everyone on Earth with the Bugs doesn't exactly help you.

You missed the point. The Federation allowed a massive military force to do as it pleased without so much as batting an eyelash.

Right. And the Federation never gave the Reinforce to the League Militaire, and Federation units never engaged the Zanscare, and there wasn't a major Federation fleet that engaged the Zanscare at the climax of the series.

Have you even seen Victory?

Yeah, the Federation completely missed the buildup and took a while to rouse itself out of inactivity. That means it's plodding and stupid. That doesn't mean it's "been the bad guy since the beginning..." as you dramatically put it.

[ZShade]

Yeah, how about Rise from the Ashes? Despite the problems in the game, it did some things right. Great use of established Mobile Suits, nice cockpit view (all the new games are third person), and a nice exploration of the Austrailian front. No Gouf Customs either. The real issues with the game was the weak weapons (how many times did you have to reload your 100mm machine gun?), small combat zones, and general shortness. The game also had some speed issues. The Blue Destiny games for Sega Saturn were really great for their time. One of few ground based Gundam games with a sense of speed.

Did you ever get to try the premium disc and face off against the White Base trio? I never did, but I heard it was insanely hard to stop Amuro.

[SylasGaunt]

The Gouf Custom is too much like a cheap copy of the flare of the original Gouf.

Eh? What do you mean by this? If you mean the decorative bits they're almost exactly the same in that respect.

I also seriously hate GIANT GATTLING GUNS.

Wow then you must hate a lot of mobile suit designs because just about every one of them with head vulcans has a giant (60mm) gatling gun or two.

Nevermind that damn silly handgun the original gouf had.

It didn't even have the heat whip, just some stupid tow cable looking thing. Ug. "That's not a Gouf, boy! Not a Gouf!"

It just cuts out the cutting effect. The original heat-whip did the shocky-thing as well, and Norris' was much better designed for that and according to the notes on MAHQ the reason they did that was to give it a much longer reach than the normal heat rod.

[VF5SS]

I have not played the Rise from the Ashes Premium disc. It was Japan only, right? I don't know how to make my Dreamcast play Japanese games. Although I do have mods for my Saturn, Playstation, and Playstation 2.

Hey SylasGaunt, thanks for misintrepretting what I said. I said giant gattling guns, not head vulcans. I'm talking wasteful things like the Gouf Custom's shield, the Strike Rogue's shield, the Gundam G-5's main weapon, the Gundam Leopard's big gun, etc. They're just that stupid showy macho crap that throws off a good design.

The original Gouf was a legend. Gouf Custom was a cheap knockoff of that legend. Less like, "Not a Zaku, boy!" and more like, "Rar! Gattling Gun! Rar!"

[Dendrobius]

The Gouf Custom's shield was used and did fine against the 100mm gun the 79[G]s were packing, what's the beef with that? Also, the shield IS THE SAME as the normal Gouf's...

Between a Gouf with a candy orange coloured heat saber and finger cannons, and a Gouf with a jet black heat saber and multiple effective ranged weapons (huge gatling, under shield gatling, more effective heat whip), I think Gouf Custom wins. Oh, not to mention, sure, no cutting effect on the whip, but now you can do grappling, and also use it as a bungee cord.

Strike Rouge's shield was about as useful as Strike's shield, and that held up against a bloody Lohengrin blast, so what's wrong with that? Blame the pilot not the machine.

IIRC, Tomino has said that the Federation is "corrupt and weak" but not outright evil per se. I think that's quite true, the Feddies are never depicted outright as the bad guys. The Zeons, the Titans, the Crossbone Vanguard, Jupiter Empire are the bad guys; White Base (close enough to independent from the EFSF), AEUG, Karaba, Londo Bell, League Militare are the good guys. The Feds are always the rotten meat in the sandwich.

[Dendrobius]

Ghetto edit: oh wait, you must mean the Strike IWSP pack's shield, not the Strike Rouge's own shield, on the theme of big fatass rotary cannons. My brain lapse.

[SylasGaunt]

Hey SylasGaunt, thanks for misintrepretting what I said. I said giant gattling guns, not head vulcans. I'm talking wasteful things like the Gouf Custom's shield, the Strike Rogue's shield, the Gundam G-5's main weapon, the Gundam Leopard's big gun, etc. They're just that stupid showy macho crap that throws off a good design.

I don't know what you call a 60mm vulcan gun if not gigantic.

Then that's leaving aside that the Gatling gun used by the gouf is an optional weapon and not built in like that damn stupid finger cannon in the orignal gouf which detracts more from the design than any number of gatlings could.

The original Gouf was a legend. Gouf Custom was a cheap knockoff of that legend. Less like, "Not a Zaku, boy!" and more like, "Rar! Gattling Gun! Rar!"

What are you talking about? You make such a huge deal over the gatling shield like it's some huge standout point about the Gouf Custom when it's only used in one of the two battles we see the thing fight, and even then only for part of it.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Why ya'll hatin' on Gundam Wing? That shit was hot.


When I was ten.

[Xess]

Why ya'll hatin' on Gundam Wing? That shit was hot.


When I was ten.

Please, it's at least good enough to last till eleven.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Please, it's at least good enough to last till eleven.

I know what I'll have until I'm well past that age:

Gundam Deathscythe Hell Custom Model? Fuck yes.

[Xess]

I know what I'll have until I'm well past that age:

Gundam Deathscythe Hell Custom Model? Fuck yes.

Can't argue with that. Deathscythe is the best Wing design. Wing Gundam looks too blah, Heavarms is just ugly, Sandrock is good but it's no Deathscythe and the Shenlong is the fugliest Gundam I've ever seen.

I will add that the Endless Walts Wing Zero is awesome in my mind though.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Can't argue with that. Deathscythe is the best Wing design. Wing Gundam looks too blah, Heavarms is just ugly, Sandrock is good but it's no Deathscythe and the Shenlong is the fugliest Gundam I've ever seen.

I agree on all accounts. Futhermore: Epyon rocked the fuckin' house.

I will add that the Endless Walts Wing Zero is awesome in my mind though.

That angel wing bullshit didn't do it for me, man. I'm like, "Why the fuck is this like this? That doesn't have any purpose!"

[Dendrobius]

That angel wing bullshit didn't do it for me, man. I'm like, "Why the fuck is this like this? That doesn't have any purpose!"

Angel Wing might not do it, but mechanical wing on the same body (ie Wing Gundam Ver Ka, not Wing Zero Ver Ka) does the trick for me.

http://www.gundammodels.com/model/0123714a.jpg

Although at the end of the day, no other Gundam design holds a candle to the F91. Best Gundam ever.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Angel Wing might not do it, but mechanical wing on the same body (ie Wing Gundam Ver Ka, not Wing Zero Ver Ka) does the trick for me.

That seems pretty standard issue, but yeah, that's the look to get.

Also, I'd like to add that I guess wings on mechs themselves don't really serve much purpose at all. But the angel thing? That's just one unnecessary thing to many.

[VF5SS]

I don't know what you call a 60mm vulcan gun if not gigantic.

They're not sticking out of the head for about ten feet, now are they?

Then that's leaving aside that the Gatling gun used by the gouf is an optional weapon and not built in like that damn stupid finger cannon in the orignal gouf which detracts more from the design than any number of gatlings could.

The Gouf design is all about internal weapons.

What are you talking about? You make such a huge deal over the gatling shield like it's some huge standout point about the Gouf Custom when it's only used in one of the two battles we see the thing fight, and even then only for part of it.

I am saying that in terms of aesthetics, design, choreography, and story execution the Gouf Custom is inferior to the original.

[Loner]

Although at the end of the day, no other Gundam design holds a candle to the F91. Best Gundam ever.

Pffft, no. It's the Nu that is the best.

[SylasGaunt]

The Gouf design is all about internal weapons.

Not it isn't. The A variant for instance dumps the finger guns entirely, and leaves it with a normal set of hands and even the original gouf is able to use the Zaku's weapon system so the majority of its available weapon systems are not in fact internal.

And it still doesn't change the fact that the finger machine guns on the original gouf are lame in the extreme.

I am saying that in terms of aesthetics, design, choreography, and story execution the Gouf Custom is inferior to the original.

Right. Whereas as far as I'm concerned about the only thing the original gouf design had going for it was the fact it was used by Ramba Ral who, lets face it, rocked.

[Battlehymn Republic]

Also, I'd like to add that I guess wings on mechs themselves don't really serve much purpose at all. But the angel thing? That's just one unnecessary thing to many.

I read from a Gundam FAQ that it was apparently used as a blast shield for atmosphere re-entries. Which is ludicrous considering that Gundanium uber-armor makes the whole point moot.

Out of the Zodiac MS, Aries was pretty cool.

[ZShade]

Also, I'd like to add that I guess wings on mechs themselves don't really serve much purpose at all. But the angel thing? That's just one unnecessary thing to many.

I read from a Gundam FAQ that it was apparently used as a blast shield for atmosphere re-entries. Which is ludicrous considering that Gundanium uber-armor makes the whole point moot.

Out of the Zodiac MS, Aries was pretty cool.

Something that is consistant about Wing is that even the Gundams cannot withstand re-entry unprotected. In Endless Waltz, when Wing Zero and Nataku fall to Earth, Wing Zero has it's wings wrapped around itself, and Nataku has ballutes.

[ZShade]

Not it isn't. The A variant for instance dumps the finger guns entirely, and leaves it with a normal set of hands and even the original gouf is able to use the Zaku's weapon system so the majority of its available weapon systems are not in fact internal.

Actually, the Gouf was an attempt to make a MS that was all about internal weapons. The A-type didn't have them because of a part shortage, and when they became available, the B-type swiftly replaced it, and is the standard Gouf. There are other variants that have even more weapons built in.

And it still doesn't change the fact that the finger machine guns on the original gouf are lame in the extreme.

Heh, yeah. I can't argue that.

Right. Whereas as far as I'm concerned about the only thing the original gouf design had going for it was the fact it was used by Ramba Ral who, lets face it, rocked.

Ramba Ral would have beaten Norris silly in a straight up fight. He was that much of a badass.

[SylasGaunt]

Actually, the Gouf was an attempt to make a MS that was all about internal weapons. The A-type didn't have them because of a part shortage, and when they became available, the B-type swiftly replaced it, and is the standard Gouf. There are other variants that have even more weapons built in.

The A-type came after the standard gouf was produced. But where are you getting the internal weapons thing because I don't ever recall hearing it anywhere before.

Ramba Ral would have beaten Norris silly in a straight up fight. He was that much of a badass.

Meh, I wouldn't go that far, but Ramba Ral is probably responsible for at least half of the original coolness factor of the normal Gouf.

[ZShade]

The A-type came after the standard gouf was produced. But where are you getting the internal weapons thing because I don't ever recall hearing it anywhere before.

Here's the write up on the A-type. Note that it's an early production model, the reasons why it was created, and that the standard is the B-type. And the B-type's entry states that they followed the -As into production, due to the parts shortage.

The internal weapons came from when Mark Simmons ran the Gundam Project. Basically, with the Gouf being an Earth-use MS, Zeonic designers felt they could use the space normally given for space-use equipment for internal weapons and improved land equipment. As we all know, the Gouf did perform better than the Zaku, but it's weapon loadout limited it, leading to things like the C-3 Heavy Arms Type.

And then of course, the Dom was produced and Zeon stopped building Goufs in favor of the much cooler machine.

Meh, I wouldn't go that far, but Ramba Ral is probably responsible for at least half of the original coolness factor of the normal Gouf.

Well, Norris does have a significant range advantage in his B-3 Gouf, I'll grant him that. So a straight up fight would be difficult. On the other hand, Ramba was the first person to really damage the Gundam, and his storming of White Base wasn't going that bad until Amuro cleaned house. So I still feel Ramba's the bigger badass.

[SylasGaunt]

Well, Norris does have a significant range advantage in his B-3 Gouf, I'll grant him that. So a straight up fight would be difficult. On the other hand, Ramba was the first person to really damage the Gundam, and his storming of White Base wasn't going that bad until Amuro cleaned house. So I still feel Ramba's the bigger badass.

And Norris was slapping the entier 08th MS Team around like a bunch of kids despite their advantages in suits, armament, and numbers. And probably the only reason he didn't kill the lot of them was because of his attachment to Aina and the revelation about Shiro.

Then there was that thing with the CoreEZs he owned.

[VF5SS]

Just going to あげ this thread for a little Zeta Gundam discussion. I am up to episode 27 and I have to say that I'm pretty well pleased with the show. I feel the best parts of the show were the invasion of Jaburo and the introduction of Four with the Psyco Gundam. Camille's return to space has slowed the show down a bit and it feels more like a bunch of random battles. I do enjoy some of the little details of the show, such as how Jerrid is destined to fail and how life just hates him. Fa is also under orders from the AEUG to never cover her legs under any circumstances.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Yeah, Zeta slows down a bit in the middle, picks back up soon. Some of the best stuff is in the last third of the series.

But I remember waaay back in like, 2002 or something, shortly before Bandai America licensed the series, I got into the fansubs up until shortly before they left Earth (about the first third, I think), then stopped because I decided to wait until the official release, not knowing I'd have to wait for like two years until it finally came out.

But I just absolutely loved it, it was such an awesome new thing to me. And I absolutely fell in love with Four; for a time she was simply the most wonderful girl in anime to me...