DS2= 160km because of trig argument

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2006-06-15 08:19pm

Vympel wrote:I sent the ban form in. Dp4m replied, repeating his position. I continue to give my position, will see what happens.

Don't count on anything. I got banned from tf.net a year or so ago. I had just signed up. Dp4m flamed me right off the bat. I flamed him back and got banned. When I pointed out Dp4m's behavior to another mod, Dp4m's flaming was out-right denied, even after I showed them the posts and quoted the flames.

Fire Fly · Post by **Fire Fly** » 2006-06-15 08:26pm

The pattern seems to be pretty clear: the TF.net moderator staff treat those who dare question as a nuisance that must be removed immediately with prejudice and will back their fellow moderators to the end of the world, even if they are convicted of breaking their own rules and hypocrisy.

EDIT: It annoys me greatly when people use Occam's Razor and use it incorrectly.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-06-15 08:47pm

d4pm is just trying to force canon down our throats. Won't be the first time. Got into an argument with him over ISD stats which I pointed out, was inconsistent with what we have seen in the movies.

Alas, he just stubbornly stood his ground in WEG stats being correct. Pathetic fool.

Fire Fly · Post by **Fire Fly** » 2006-06-15 08:52pm

Does anyone know what some WEG stats are for the prequel movies are? I'm interested to see if they've adjusted their numbers accordingly or if it is still using erroneous numbers.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-06-15 09:00pm

Fire Fly wrote:Does anyone know what some WEG stats are for the prequel movies are? I'm interested to see if they've adjusted their numbers accordingly or if it is still using erroneous numbers.

I recall the numbers for the Venator actually matched those in ICS, but whether or not the firepower reflects what ICS put forth is another matter.

As yet, they have yet to scale down or scale up or both the WEG stats for the OT ships.

GunDoctor · Post by **GunDoctor** » 2006-06-16 12:36am

Fire Fly wrote:Does anyone know what some WEG stats are for the prequel movies are? I'm interested to see if they've adjusted their numbers accordingly or if it is still using erroneous numbers.

Uhhhhhhhhhhh.

You are aware that West End Games (WEG) no longer holds the liscence for Star Wars roleplaying material? Maybe you mean Wizards of the Coast (WOTC) ? As to what the d20 stats for various stuff is, sorry can't be bothered to invest in Dungeons and Jedi.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-06-16 01:04am

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:d4pm is just trying to force canon down our throats. Won't be the first time. Got into an argument with him over ISD stats which I pointed out, was inconsistent with what we have seen in the movies.

Alas, he just stubbornly stood his ground in WEG stats being correct. Pathetic fool.

He's just throwing his weight around because he can. He's probably still sore about The Canon Agrument he lost on Butler's "radio" show.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-06-16 01:57am

Lord Poe wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:d4pm is just trying to force canon down our throats. Won't be the first time. Got into an argument with him over ISD stats which I pointed out, was inconsistent with what we have seen in the movies.

Alas, he just stubbornly stood his ground in WEG stats being correct. Pathetic fool.
He's just throwing his weight around because he can. He's probably still sore about The Canon Agrument he lost on Butler's "radio" show.

How was he involved in that? I'm kinda confused as the webpage showed a verbal duel between Brian Young and a "Butler".

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-06-16 01:58am

Read the whole page. It was supposed to be Wayne vs dp4m. Instead, dp4m kept putting off, then finally responded and had Butler read it.

The locking of the thread is especially annoying- not only did Mange point out quite rightly that his Centrepoint quote proves postiviely nothing (as I suspected)- but Jim repeated the fact that the Databank being updated does not determine whether something is canon or not. Instead, dp4m tried to dress it up as contesting the old, incorrect 160km as being a rule violation based on his entirely made up on the spot, no evidence claim that the Databank must be updated for it to be so- EVEN AFTER Jim had already pointed this out, with a quote from Mr Chee to boot.

Oh, but no size debates allowed anymore.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-06-16 02:04am

Vympel wrote:As I suspected, dp4m somehow got it into his head that the Databank must be updated for a source to somehow be "validated". That's prima facie absurd, and someone should post that Leland Chee quote in a new thread, because this is the first time I've heard such a ridiculous concept.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Did you send him the quote by Chee that Jim asked for?

EDIT: It was a while since I read that page. So dp4m is on the "anti-Saxton" side...

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-06-16 02:05am

Mange wrote: That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Did you send him the quote by Chee that Jim asked for?

It's on the locked thread. Jim put it up. He ignored it and repeated the same BS.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-06-16 02:13am

Oh... ok.. apologies..

But it's interesting that the answers were delivered in a COMMITTEE...

Sounds familiar..

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2006-06-16 03:07am

has anyone ventured into the other forums other than lit? Its........... frightening sometimes to see what they contain.

I mean, this is supposedly a fanforum, manned by the most dedicated fans in SW. They're the ones who dig out future SW franchises, has interviews with SW authors/actors/whatever and are supposed to be hardcore fans.

Yet, we have fans who supposedly stated that the Tantive IV was present and destroyed at Endor, fans who melodramatically commpared SW to Macbeth, and screwed up the comparison, fans who go "ooooh, cooollll" at any new star wars bit and all kinds of random speculation. I mean, speculation is just fine, but when they throw in their "you can't go against the canon" line, it gets damn frustrating.

To be honest, I'm too afraid to venture into their movie forums anymore...........

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-06-16 03:27am

I hit the movie forums from time to time to post random EU bits. It either confuses or pisses people off.

I don't understand the draw of dedicated movie forums, anyhow. How many different discussions can you have about the same movie?

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-06-16 03:41am

000 wrote:I hit the movie forums from time to time to post random EU bits. It either confuses or pisses people off.

I don't understand the draw of dedicated movie forums, anyhow. How many different discussions can you have about the same movie?

That's pretty much the reason why I rarely take a look. There's nothing there to really talk about.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-06-16 04:15am

I dug up this quote by Chee last year. I said then that it worried me and in retrospect (considering the other issue which arose later last year) perhaps I had cause for concerns:

Tasty Taste wrote:I'm not going to say anything about Death Star II measurements.

Part of the long construction time is that the design and testing for the first Death Star still had to be hammered out as construction was proceeding. It's also possible that there are other unforseen complications which could be explored at a later date. Also, I don't have a start date for construction of the Death Star II, though I can confirm that the Star Wars Encyclopedia says that the Hammertong Project was specifically for the Death Star II.

Maybe the Death Star II was originally not a contingency plan, but rather part of a Death Star fleet. But once the first Death Star's primary flaw was exposed, Palpatine began to revise his plans. From Ep VI, it can be argued that the Death Star II's main purpose was not to act as a weapon of terror but to simply be bait. Very expensive bait that the Rebel Alliance just couldn't resist.

+http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa? ... start=0135

Chee said that he wouldn't "say anything about Death Star II measurements" and he then presented a rather strange theory. Now, it doesn't really matter what the Holocron says about the size of DSII as ROTJ shows that it can't be 160 kilometer in diameter (a figure that WEG pulled out of their asses, together with their figures for the Executor, the height of the AT-AT, hell, they couldn't even get the height for R2-D2 right), but as long as Chee remains silent on the issue, the Databank isn't updated (like it's the premier source of Star Wars canon

) or the size being explicitly mentioned in a published source (perhaps in the upcoming Death Star novel), then the WEG fanboys will continue to cling to that figure.

Ubiquitous · Post by **Ubiquitous** » 2006-06-16 07:27am

Traviss quote on the previous page raises an interesting point - does anyone get the feeling that in light of the drama over the recent retconning, that certain authors will post delibrately controversial things in their books in order to fuel sales? The publicity generated by the debate on the Clone Army has certainly raises the profile of Traviss no end - and must have increased sales. Whilst said increase in sales is probably not large, is it large enough for certain authors to slip in a few quotes such as '8KM SSD' in order to push up sales slightly with no real punishment in return, save for his/her demolition by 'Talifans' [:roll:]?

Of course it could work the other way - with authors now wanting to maximise SW technology so they are not on the receiving end of the wrath of the more intelligent fans that can make them look stupid in front of the TFN babies.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-06-16 08:07am

Mange wrote:I dug up this quote by Chee last year. I said then that it worried me and in retrospect (considering the other issue which arose later last year) perhaps I had cause for concerns:

Tasty Taste wrote:
Maybe the Death Star II was originally not a contingency plan, but rather part of a Death Star fleet. But once the first Death Star's primary flaw was exposed, Palpatine began to revise his plans. From Ep VI, it can be argued that the Death Star II's main purpose was not to act as a weapon of terror but to simply be bait. Very expensive bait that the Rebel Alliance just couldn't resist.

Lets look on the bright side.

An entire fleet of DeathStars? Take that minimalists.

DeathStarII was just a bait? Take that minimalists.

But somehow i have the feeling, that my spending on future SW-products is going to decline.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-06-16 09:07am

Well, let's face it. It's smart marketing to target the largest demographic, which is unfortunately people with minimal education. In the end, expecting a level of intellectual integrity out of a corporate entity like Lucasfilm is probably much too much. You might get that out of an individual person, but Lucasfilm is a bureaucracy. At the end of the day, they don't really give a shit about the quality or consistency of their literature as long as it keeps selling. Just ask the comic book companies, who have legions of fanboys despite having crossed the word "consistency" out of their dictionaries.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-06-16 11:23am

One could argue, that LFL still tries to keep consistency. Bad consistency and often lacking in common sense, but still consistency.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-06-16 01:28pm

One thing I found to be most disturbing with the debate over at TFN was that dp4m claimed to follow canon, but he seemed completely oblivious about the structure of LFL, the role of Leland Chee and he displayed a very rudimentary knowledge about how the canon actually works. He also made some statements that made me raise my eyebrows:

Chee works for the Licensing department. LFL Production hasn't said a word about it. Chee and Rostoni are the ones that are responsible for keeping track of the canon and Chee has said to the effect that they fully support Saxton's work in the books.
If LFL has said anything it would be that the DSII was intended to be 500 miles in diameter.

dp4m wrote:The actions taken by LFL to date would indicate that this is not so.

Of course, he wouldn't elaborate on the "actions".

Going over the thread, I realized that I had missed this gem:

dp4m wrote:The official canon size is 160 km. Any attempts at labelling anything different is patently false and, at this point, KNOWINGLY false.

Of course, argue that the movies, which are the highest canon, shows something differently than an old arbitrary figure which has since been corrected, is to knowingly push for a false figure.

No sense in beating a dead horse, but only a few concluding observations.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-06-16 09:36pm

Frankly I'm annoyed the thread was closed. Anyway, I'll do it over PM.

Good work on Centrepoint station, btw.

Fire Fly · Post by **Fire Fly** » 2006-06-16 11:07pm

Well, we all know who Master_Uxi is now: Gary Sarli.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-06-16 11:22pm

Fire Fly wrote:Well, we all know who Master_Uxi is now: Gary Sarli.

Really?

Fire Fly · Post by **Fire Fly** » 2006-06-16 11:35pm

Upon further inspection, I may have spoken prematurely. In the opening post, I was confused by the awkward juxtapositioning of Master_Uxi's post and the mentioning of GM Sarli.