Would the world *actually* be better off Christian?

[Lagmonster]

Okay. Christians are always trumpeting that the world would be a stunning utopia if everyone would just convert and sing praises to Jesus. So I figured I'd take a semi-serious approach to the proposal. Would the world be measurably improved if, due to whatever superb brainwashing or leverage, every last human on earth was a Bible-believing Christian?

Would a unified religious comraderie manage a stable global economy, environmental care, and world peace, or is similarity of religion simply insufficient to make any difference against the combined forces of tribalism, greed, racism, and stupidity?

For the sake of comparison, say we compare the Catholics - an already experienced bureaucratic and powerful international entity, and the fundamentalists - with rage and zeal and the willingness to knock the tar out of any dissenters.

[Lagmonster]

Frankly, I already think this is a turkey shoot, but it'll appease my Catholic friends, so here we go.

The Catholics have the edge in crushing and oppressive guilt and boredom to suppress human urges, which means that I would give them an edge over the rage-and-fear fundies in managing a mostly mundane population. But beyond that little bit, I don't give them a hope; Christianity doesn't welcome diversity as openly as it says it does, and just because everyone wears crosses won't stem the tide of gays, non-whites and unwanted teen pregnancies. So they get a failing grade from me on preserving world peace.

The economy doesn't have anything to do with faith; People rarely ask a shopkeeper his religious beliefs, so I don't understand the basis of this claim either.

The environment, under Christian rule, would get the shit kicked out of it. Who has time to plant trees when Jesus is coming back any day now? Frankly, Christian claims that they are more caring for the dominion god gave them are insane.

I'm actually hoping that someone can point out a counter-point that would indicate that globally homogenized belief systems would be a better thing than I think it is, but I'm not crossing my fingers.

[Ghost Rider]

On some levels...it would seem nice, but the levels of greed and deception would just be in different areas and the level of intolerance would be insane. Just give a gander of how the Church does regulate itself. More then a few interesting cases of immense greed, just instead of Senator we call them Bishops.

Also let's take into account that while everyone may be under the same umbrella, would that mean they are of the same mindset? Having another group say their way is right in such a world would be far worse then it is ours.

That and any advancement would grind to nearing stunning halt. The world would have to consult what is good and bad according to bunch of dusty tomes. Things that are percieved violations would never be touched upon, regardless of benefits.

Honestly this is really one of those things that to some it sounds good on paper, but when even in small doses you can see how it can turn absolutely horrifying.

[Darth Wong]

Iraq is all Muslim, but that doesn't seem to be slowing down the religious violence. I can't imagine that a world where everyone was Christian would be any different than medieval Europe in terms of religious discord.

[Molyneux]

Iraq is all Muslim, but that doesn't seem to be slowing down the religious violence. I can't imagine that a world where everyone was Christian would be any different than medieval Europe in terms of religious discord.

No, actually, there is a small Christian population in Iraq.

[Flagg]

Iraq is all Muslim, but that doesn't seem to be slowing down the religious violence. I can't imagine that a world where everyone was Christian would be any different than medieval Europe in terms of religious discord.

Actually, I believe there were, and are still about 800,000 Christians living in Iraq.

Link
Of course according to that, they are now faced with violence since the protection they got from the Baathists is gone.

[Talanth]

Iraq is all Muslim, but that doesn't seem to be slowing down the religious violence. I can't imagine that a world where everyone was Christian would be any different than medieval Europe in terms of religious discord.

It seems to be that once everyone is of the same religion then it's time to start snipeing at people of other sects. Or other tribes. Or simply other countrys. Humans throughout history seem to do very little but invest in some form of conflict with each other.

Realy does make me despare for our species sometimes.

[Darth Wong]

Iraq is all Muslim, but that doesn't seem to be slowing down the religious violence. I can't imagine that a world where everyone was Christian would be any different than medieval Europe in terms of religious discord.

No, actually, there is a small Christian population in Iraq.

Wow, that point just flew right by, didn't it? Which groups are fighting? Is it the tiny minority of Christians against the Muslims? Nope, it's Sunnis against Shiites.

[Zero]

People would find new things to faction and divide over anyways, even if religion was gone. That being said, there would probably be LESS religious violence and factioning if the world had at least a common belief system, much like factioning and violence might decrease if the world were all one race.

On the whole, though, the world would be a worse place, because anything seen as going against arbitrary religious codes would probably be restricted irreguardless of all practical value. I mean, this would be broken occasionally, but breaches would be seen much like greed is now, because it would seem another example of breaking societal standards for dubious purposes. Technological progress would decrease, and since religion would be beyond question, faith-healing would probably be advertised as just as effective if not better than medical practices that actually worked. All in all, Mike's probably right, the world would end up regressing back towards how it was in medieval times.

So yeah, the world would be worse off, in all probability.

[K. A. Pital]

An all-Christian world... um... you know, right? There was a time when religion ruled the world. It was called the Dark Age. How the fuck is that supposed to be better?

Oh, and we'd also stop scientific progress wholescale, because Christian mentality in general is retrogradish and anti-science.

Would a unified religious comraderie manage a stable global economy, environmental care, and world peace, or is similarity of religion simply insufficient to make any difference against the combined forces of tribalism, greed, racism, and stupidity?

If there was any "camaraderie" in religion, I'd be compelled to say yes, however, in religion, there's God, not "camaraderie". Humans are waste, according to religion.

1) Religion despises enviromentalism, and religion proclaims man's "king of nature", christianity particular. That mentality leads to fucking Earth up in many ways and not even giving a shit.

2) Global Economy? Puh-leeze, religion is about enriching the higher ups, and dominating those below. Because educated people would rise against religion anyway sooner or later, religion INVARIANTLY supresses any kind of social justice and keeps the "sheep" poor, blind and obedient.

3) World Peace? Religion has been responsible for bloodiest wars. Imagine some Christian decides that he knows better. You will have a Great Heretical War. Welcome back to Middle Ages.

4) Combined forces of greed, tribalism and racism is what religion INCORPORATES. Especially the Christian one (funny how it says that greed is a sin, however it says you should give all your posessions to Sky Pixie - that's just sick). The Christian religion IS racist, and was a major help to racism in the US. Hell, Christian "god-given Slavery Mandate" was enough to understand that Christianity incorporates racism in it's doctrine or at least racism-supporting elements. Tribalism is what Judeo-Christianity was born off.

Welcome to the Dark Age, and don't forget to open your Bibles in your Science Class.

[Lord Zentei]

Iraq is all Muslim, but that doesn't seem to be slowing down the religious violence. I can't imagine that a world where everyone was Christian would be any different than medieval Europe in terms of religious discord.

No, actually, there is a small Christian population in Iraq.

Wow, that point just flew right by, didn't it? Which groups are fighting? Is it the tiny minority of Christians against the Muslims? Nope, it's Sunnis against Shiites.

Then perhaps the question should be whether the world would be a Utopia if all were converted to the same sect.

<looks at historic racial segregation in the South>

<looks at the Middle Ages in Europe where mostly everyone was Catholic>

More reasons for asshattery exist than differing religions, and religion has a history of justifying or facilitating such asshattery.

[K. A. Pital]

religion has a history of justifying or facilitating such asshattery

Yes, exactly. And being in "the same sect" doesnt' work, since all "sects" invariantly break in a few years because they are not a movement, and there would be christians who know better what the Bible means. If general sect says it's not against gays, there'd be massive division between homophobes and "liberal" christians. If the general sect accepts evolution, we will have fundies split and declare war on science anyway and anyhow.

Making it [Christianity] a whole world religion means simply making all those little quarries between sects grand events on a World War scale.

[Darth Wong]

What the Muslim and Christian religions do in particular is teach their followers that it is a sin to teach incorrect interpretations of their religion.

The ferocity with which believers punish others for violations of this rule varies with time and place, but make no mistake: both of those religions consider it a terrible sin to say anything about their religions which is deemed "incorrect".

You can't just say that it's human nature or the nature of religion; a world full of 100% Buddhists would be much more peaceful than a world full of 100% Christians or 100% Muslims. There are certain particular aspects of certain religions which lead inevitably to strife.

[Infidel7]

It would have the stabalizing effect that any and all homogenization has. This is the reason why so many authoritarians/dictators seek unity under religion. It allows for more streamlined and effective social control, though it is not flawless. There will always be dissenting views even within an existing religion (see protestant revolution). From a rulers perspective, homogenized religion = easy mode.

[Lagmonster]

More reasons for asshattery exist than differing religions, and religion has a history of justifying or facilitating such asshattery.

Naturally, the Catholics I know maintain that they'd do so much better than the Muslims, because Christians built the Free West.

I imagine that the Christian notion that they can build a better world is rooted squarely on the oft-repeated lie that they built the new world, whereas we already know that modern civilization doesn't really owe anything to the faith. I almost wonder if that hasn't crossed Bush's mind too - the idea that only Christians can build a better world because they've somehow already done it before. Lord knows it's crossed the pope's mind; he's been ranting about it of late and the office Catholics have taken up this mantra.

In fact, the notion that Christianity would be so good at running things smoothly is consistent with their need to shovel it onto other people and judge other people by it even if they don't subscribe to the same beliefs. I suppose at the heart of it, everyone just wants to rule the world.

[Eleas]

In fact, the notion that Christianity would be so good at running things smoothly is consistent with their need to shovel it onto other people and judge other people by it even if they don't subscribe to the same beliefs. I suppose at the heart of it, everyone just wants to rule the world.

Indeed. And to rule the world, one must have subjects.

Which inescapably leads to the conclusion that in order to get this utopia, it's really best to retain a few heathens. In a religion defined by the division between the Righteous and the Wicked, the need to be counted among the former means you have to contrast yourself against the latter. And thus will arise a real and indisputable need for scapegoats and villains. How can you reassure yourself that you're better than the sinners if no sinners are there to be objects of your scorn?

[Elaro]

Wasn't Pre-WW1 Europe all-Christian or something? I also remember France and England fighting side by side, even though they were of different sects (England=Anglican, France=Catholic). And wasn't Germany Catholic?

[Lord Zentei]

Wasn't Pre-WW1 Europe all-Christian or something? I also remember France and England fighting side by side, even though they were of different sects (England=Anglican, France=Catholic). And wasn't Germany Catholic?

Germany is part Catholic, part Prodestant. Hitler was Catholic.

[Molyneux]

Iraq is all Muslim, but that doesn't seem to be slowing down the religious violence. I can't imagine that a world where everyone was Christian would be any different than medieval Europe in terms of religious discord.

No, actually, there is a small Christian population in Iraq.

Wow, that point just flew right by, didn't it? Which groups are fighting? Is it the tiny minority of Christians against the Muslims? Nope, it's Sunnis against Shiites.

I never said that the Christian population of Iraq was involved in the violence, just correcting a factual error.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

Wasn't Pre-WW1 Europe all-Christian or something? I also remember France and England fighting side by side, even though they were of different sects (England=Anglican, France=Catholic). And wasn't Germany Catholic?

Southeastern Europe has had heavy Muslim influence ever since the Ottoman Empire destroyed and took the place of the Eastern Roman Empire in the 15th century. And England and France aren't the best examples for religious diversity. The Central Powers included Germany (Protestant/Catholic), Austria-Hungary (Catholic), Bulgaria (Orthodox), and the Ottomans (Muslim); the Allied Powers included the United Kindom (Protestant/Catholic*), France (Catholic), Russia (Orthodox), Serbia (Orthodox), Romania (Orthodox), and later Italy (Catholic).


*At this point, all of Ireland was part of the United Kindom.

[Count Dooku]

If you think the oppression of science, free thought, individualism, and homosexuals is a good thing, than an all Christian world would be great.

[Wicked Pilot]

Just in case no one saw it earlier:

Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies

In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy, and abortion in the prosperous democracies

Give me a striped shirt and a beret because I'd rather be French.