How should Chewbacca have died?

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Post by Winston Blake »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Death... by snu snu!
I believe that was already mentioned:
Sonnenburg wrote:I'll sum it up for you in as few of words I can:

Chewie goes down swinging.
Lord Pounder wrote:I agree with one thing Chewie should have gone out standing over the corpses of several dead Vong. I'd have had him and Han facing certain doom. Chewie would go into a Wookie Berzerker Rage and wipe them all out, just as he roars in triumph a half dead Vong stabs him with a Amphistaff killing him instantly.
Personally for once i wouldn't mind seeing minor characters neither die instantly or remain more-or-less unscathed. How about wiping out all the Vong but but being stabbed in two places and later dying in a field hospital? You get your action in the battle and your drama at the bedside without fusing the two into an unrealistic 'Where's Chewie? A moon fell on him :wtf:.' scene.
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Post by Cao Cao »

FTeik wrote:Bah, i thought the moon was okay. And not everybody can go out in a blaze of glory. And aside from the problem of realism and science, being killed by a moon is an original and unique way to go (as far as SW is concerned).
Chewie isn't "everybody", he's a main character from the movies. Loved by many.
Such a death would be fine for a more minor character from the books, but Chewie? Hell no! It's like if they ended RotJ with the Emperor slipping on a banana peel and breaking his neck instead of being tossed down a reactor shaft by his apprentice.

Also, not only was it a bad death.. but since Lucas forced the writers to kill off Anakin Solo later on, his sacrifice was in vain too! :x
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Post by Darth Wong »

I still don't see why every SW novel has to involve so many main characters or progress their personal life stories as if it's some kind of soap opera. A galaxy is a very large place, and there should be plenty of room for stories that take place in and around major events but don't necessarily involve the soap-opera life developments of movie characters.

Look at Zahn; his most beloved character work involved his own made-up character, Grand Admiral Thrawn.
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Post by FTeik »

Cao Cao wrote:
FTeik wrote:Bah, i thought the moon was okay. And not everybody can go out in a blaze of glory. And aside from the problem of realism and science, being killed by a moon is an original and unique way to go (as far as SW is concerned).
Chewie isn't "everybody", he's a main character from the movies. Loved by many.
Such a death would be fine for a more minor character from the books, but Chewie? Hell no! It's like if they ended RotJ with the Emperor slipping on a banana peel and breaking his neck instead of being tossed down a reactor shaft by his apprentice.

Also, not only was it a bad death.. but since Lucas forced the writers to kill off Anakin Solo later on, his sacrifice was in vain too! :x
And why can't a main character met his end by slipping in the shower or dying of old age in his sleep? Does every fictional "main" character have to go down in a way, that there can be no doubt about his warm welcome in Walhalla?

And how is Chewbacca's sacrifice in vain? Thanks to him Anakin Solo was a pain in the ass to the Vong for nine or ten novels. Were the sacrifices of the French Revolutaneries for liberty and equality in vain, because Napoleon crowned himself emperor?
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Post by Cao Cao »

FTeik wrote:And why can't a main character met his end by slipping in the shower or dying of old age in his sleep? Does every fictional "main" character have to go down in a way, that there can be no doubt about his warm welcome in Walhalla?
I have no issue with characters dying of old age.
But Chewie didn't die of old age, he died because of an event that was meant to be oh so meaningful and dramatic, but wasn't.
And how is Chewbacca's sacrifice in vain? Thanks to him Anakin Solo was a pain in the ass to the Vong for nine or ten novels. Were the sacrifices of the French Revolutaneries for liberty and equality in vain, because Napoleon crowned himself emperor?
One could say their efforts were in vain more due to Robspierre's reign of terror. :P
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Post by Noble Ire »

Darth Wong wrote:I still don't see why every SW novel has to involve so many main characters or progress their personal life stories as if it's some kind of soap opera. A galaxy is a very large place, and there should be plenty of room for stories that take place in and around major events but don't necessarily involve the soap-opera life developments of movie characters.

Look at Zahn; his most beloved character work involved his own made-up character, Grand Admiral Thrawn.
That does seem to be a major failing of the EU; authors are either too uncomfortable to write without using known characters as crutches, or they lack the creative capacity to make compelling original ones. Fortunately, there seems to be a recent trend, at least in the EU, to focus either on very minor characters, or just a single major one. The Medstar books, Dark Rendevous, and, though it sickens me to say it, Hard Contact, were all quite good, at least compared to the majority of the post ROTJ fiction, and relied heavily on original characters.
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Post by Kurgan »

Chewbacca should have outlived all of them, and died peacefully in his sleep.

Nothing ignoble about that! I almost picture some kind of Robin Hood ending for Han and Chewie.
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Post by Darth Culator »

I'm gonna have to agree with the "not dying" option. In fact, I've been pondering a sort of alternate NJO with him in it.

I prefer the idea of Anakin force-pushing Chewie onto the Falcon, and then getting crushed himself.

Then Han blames Chewie for Anakin's death, and they both get all angsty and tense for a while, but then reconcile and proceed to kick copious Vong ass.

Chewie lives for another 300 years. His presence somehow allows the NJO and Legacy eras to not suck.
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Post by Anarchist Bunny »

FTeik wrote:
Cao Cao wrote:
And why can't a main character met his end by slipping in the shower or dying of old age in his sleep?
Ackbar died of old age. Sure he's not a main, main character, but he is a much liked character that was in the movie and even had lines(unlike Dengar getting offed).
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Post by Anguirus »

Ackbar died of old age. Sure he's not a main, main character, but he is a much liked character that was in the movie and even had lines(unlike Dengar getting offed).
What? When did Dengar die?

Also, didn't Mon Mothma die of old age? Though, she was weakened by that disease in the JAT.
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Post by Sonnenburg »

FTeik wrote:And why can't a main character met his end by slipping in the shower or dying of old age in his sleep? Does every fictional "main" character have to go down in a way, that there can be no doubt about his warm welcome in Walhalla?
Old age, okay; slipping in the shower, not okay. Slipping and dying in the shower is a pointless accident... where in Chewie's character arc does it suggest that a pointless accident is a fitting end for him? How does it cap the life we've followed? All it points to is the fragility of life, and that's not what Chewbacca brings to mind. He's been a symbol of strength throughout the series, of devotion to friends above all else. The reason that Chewie goes down swinging is not to make him some Klingon, but because his death reflects the life he lived, going to the end trying to do what he's always done. Slipping in the shower is how Jar Jar dies.
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Post by Anarchist Bunny »

Anguirus wrote:
Ackbar died of old age. Sure he's not a main, main character, but he is a much liked character that was in the movie and even had lines(unlike Dengar getting offed).
What? When did Dengar die?

Also, didn't Mon Mothma die of old age? Though, she was weakened by that disease in the JAT.
Dengar: iirc, Mara Jade kills him in the Zahn Duology, I don't think its every outright stated that its Dengar, but that is HEAVILY insinuated.
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Post by Darth Fanboy »

Mara Jade kills a bounty hunter named Gunner Groth impersonating Dengar in "Dark Force Rising", which is part of the original Thrawn trilogy.
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Post by Anguirus »

Yeah, I remember that guy from DFR...his name was Dengar, but he did not fit the description of movie Dengar in the least. He just had the same name and profession. Claiming that he's "impersonating" the movie Dengar seems like an unnecessary retconning. It's a big galaxy.

Besides which, we see the movie Dengar in Dark Empire, a year later.

I think the first movie character they killed in the EU was Madine.
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Post by FTeik »

Sonnenburg wrote:
FTeik wrote:And why can't a main character met his end by slipping in the shower or dying of old age in his sleep? Does every fictional "main" character have to go down in a way, that there can be no doubt about his warm welcome in Walhalla?
Old age, okay; slipping in the shower, not okay. Slipping and dying in the shower is a pointless accident... where in Chewie's character arc does it suggest that a pointless accident is a fitting end for him? How does it cap the life we've followed? All it points to is the fragility of life, and that's not what Chewbacca brings to mind. He's been a symbol of strength throughout the series, of devotion to friends above all else. The reason that Chewie goes down swinging is not to make him some Klingon, but because his death reflects the life he lived, going to the end trying to do what he's always done. Slipping in the shower is how Jar Jar dies.
That is not the point.

The point is, WHY can't people die a pointless death. Why has the life of a character to follow a set pattern to and including the bitter end (which IT DOES in Chewie's case, but some people are not satisfied and bitch around, although it took a moon to kill him, while he was sacrificing himself for the son of his best friend).
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Post by Sonnenburg »

FTeik wrote:
Sonnenburg wrote:Old age, okay; slipping in the shower, not okay. Slipping and dying in the shower is a pointless accident... where in Chewie's character arc does it suggest that a pointless accident is a fitting end for him? How does it cap the life we've followed? All it points to is the fragility of life, and that's not what Chewbacca brings to mind. He's been a symbol of strength throughout the series, of devotion to friends above all else. The reason that Chewie goes down swinging is not to make him some Klingon, but because his death reflects the life he lived, going to the end trying to do what he's always done. Slipping in the shower is how Jar Jar dies.
That is not the point.

The point is, WHY can't people die a pointless death. Why has the life of a character to follow a set pattern to and including the bitter end (which IT DOES in Chewie's case, but some people are not satisfied and bitch around, although it took a moon to kill him, while he was sacrificing himself for the son of his best friend).
No, that exactly IS the point. The character arc is a measure of the life of that character, and is told through the story. The death of said character is the culmination of that arc, and therefore needs to fit that. Having Chewbacca die of a pointless accident is no different than having him shave off his hair and become a transvestite, or of ending Return of the Jedi by having the Emperor slip on a banana peel and plummet to his death. It doesn't fit the events which precede it, and thus strips them of meaning.
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Post by Crazedwraith »

Does Chewbacca even have a "character arc" anyway? He's pretty much a constant as far as Star Wars goes: The loyal sidekick of Solo.

Anyway, I don't see how Chewbacca getting sliced and diced by a Sithified Luke Skywalker while saving Han Solo's familly "culminated" his "arc" any differently than getting crushed by a moon while Saving Han Solo's familiy.
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Post by Batman »

I rather suspect that Chewbacca got chosen for termination because he can effectively have no dialogue, which makes him moderately hard to write.
And frankly one (or by preference all) of the Solo brats dying while Chewie got away would have been vastly more satisfying.
Anyway, I don't see how Chewbacca getting sliced and diced by a Sithified Luke Skywalker while saving Han Solo's familly "culminated" his "arc" any differently than getting crushed by a moon while Saving Han Solo's familiy.
The difference is that by slowing down the sithified Luke (which is a ridiculous concept in and of itself) Chewie would have bought the Solos' safety with his life, as per his 'Life Debt' angle. He could have lived, but chose to die so the Solos could live. As per the stupid 'moon falls on him' scenario he dies anyway.
Needless to say, I'm in the 'Chewie should have lived, period' camp.
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Post by Sonnenburg »

Crazedwraith wrote:Does Chewbacca even have a "character arc" anyway? He's pretty much a constant as far as Star Wars goes: The loyal sidekick of Solo.

Anyway, I don't see how Chewbacca getting sliced and diced by a Sithified Luke Skywalker while saving Han Solo's familly "culminated" his "arc" any differently than getting crushed by a moon while Saving Han Solo's familiy.
Chewie's development is one of movement away from his responsibilities as a Wookiee to one of responsibilities for the man who spared him, to one of responsibility in the lives of this extensive family. Chewie's motivation is always a personal one, which means that his death should likewise be personal, face-to-face with his destroyer. His action is expected, but the instrument is flawed when it comes to a moon. A slip in the shower fits neither.
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Post by Sonnenburg »

Batman wrote:The difference is that by slowing down the sithified Luke (which is a ridiculous concept in and of itself)
Edit again: withdrawn.
Last edited by Sonnenburg on 2006-06-17 07:26pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Batman »

Sonnenburg wrote:
Batman wrote:The difference is that by slowing down the sithified Luke (which is a ridiculous concept in and of itself)
Say it to my face next time, fucker.
Come again? I apologize if the sithified Luke was your idea, I didn't realize that, but sorry given the feats that standard EU Luke is capable of, the idea that Chewie might slow down a sithified pull-out-all-the-stops Luke by any meaningful margin IS ridiculous.
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Post by Sonnenburg »

Apology accepted, Captain Needa.

And no, it was not pull-out-all-the-stops, it was half-my-brain-tied-behind-my-back.
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Post by Batman »

Sonnenburg wrote: And no, it was not pull-out-all-the-stops, it was half-my-brain-tied-behind-my-back.
Doesn't that hurt?
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Post by Sonnenburg »

Yes, especially when your girlfriend with three times normal human strength punches you in the ribs. :wink:

But we're getting off the subject (or rather, it's on the subject of character arcs, but tangential to the real issue of Chewie's demise).
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