This is how I spent the last hour: Italicized is me, bold is her. Apologies in advance for the hideous formatting, but it's from a chat. I put breaks in where we shifted topics, but nothing is omitted.How do you reconcile contradictions in the Bible?
There are no contradictions.
The first two chapters of Genesis provide conflicting accounts of the same event.
What event?
The creation of the world.
Nothing conflicting there. Simply one expounds on the other.
Untrue. The order of the creation is different. Genesis 1:25-27 "And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image." Animals created before man. Genesis 2:18-19 "And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof." Animals created after man, who names them. Genesis 1:11-13 / 27-31 "And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so .... And the evening and the morning were the third day. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them .... And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." God makes plants on Day 3, and man/woman on Day 6. Genesis 2:4-7 "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth ... And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground." Plants are created after humans.
No. In the explaination, God doesn't need to put the order. He's already done so. Now He's just telling what He did with them.
How about the extent of God's power? Is it infinite, or not?
God is all-powerful.
Judges 1:19 "And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."
Hebrews 6:18 "It was impossible for God to lie."
::smiles:: God doesn't do everything for us. He wants us to do things as well. Otherwise we would have a genie in a bottle, instead of a wise God.
That doesn't address that flat-out statement of Hebrews 6:18 that God is unable to lie.
He doesn't lie.
It doesn't say that. It says it's not possible. If it read "It was against the character of God to lie," that'd be one thing. Doesn't say that.
It isn't possible for God to lie, because He IS truth.
Which means something exists he cannot do.
"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by me." There are things that He WILL not do, but nothing that he CAN not do.
Yet it flat-out states that it's impossible for him to lie.
Also, when your children were born, did the priest kill a lamb, dove, or a pigeon?
Of course not. Sacrifices were done away with when Christ gave the once-and-for-all sacrifice on the cross. The veil in the temple was rent, and we have direct access to God ourselves now. We don't need an early priest.
Leviticus 12:6-8 is pretty clear about making sacrifices. And Jesus is pretty clear about following it.
Mark 7:9-10 "And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death"
Jesus came to fulfill the law. He was the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sins of the world. Once He had paid for sins, no other sacrifice was necessary. It was finished on the cross.
So, if a child ever says anything bad to their parents, they should be killed, according to Jesus, for violating a commandment.
No.
But Jesus said as much.
Honor you father and mother so your days shall be long upon the earth.
That's the commandment, sure. But according to Mark, Jesus explicitly states that violation of this commandment should merit death.
If you refuse to honor your parents, your life will not be as long as it would have been otherwise. He was talking about man's tradition, and that they put more merit in that than in His word. He was trying to show them that there is a difference. The law was sent to convict people of sin, and in the OT it was kept... to the letter. That was man's tradition. Now that grace is upon us, the effect of the law is not the same. We don't stone people today. We pray for them. "Love your enemies, and pray for those who despitefully use you." Before it was... and eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.
Let's talk a little about Noah. How big was the Ark?
Bigger then most people think it was.
And also... Noah took animals of every KIND with him, not every SPIECIES. And nobody said they were adult animals.Genesis 6:15 "And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadh of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits."
Some could even have been eggs which would hatch along the way.
Have you ever seen a baby elephant?
Yes... and if man was 13' tall at that time, how would that change the calculations? Because it was based on the length of a man's forearm or something.
The largest length of a wooden boat is 300 feet, with iron ribbing for re-inforcement. A boat as big as the Ark would've collapsed, that's even if one assumes a standard size for the length of the cubit. 300 cubits, incidentally, is about 450 feet under modern reckoning.
God is able to do above all that we ask or think. He could design an ark that would hold all that was needed, without any problem. Remember, it was HIS design. Not Noah's. Noah just followed directions. And the earth was different back then. More oxygen in the air. You have to take into account many things.
Looks pretty clear to me that Noah was given some general guidelines, and then had to build it himself. And what the heck does more oxygen have to do with this?
That only comes from ignorance of how God works in the lives of His believers. I believe God was with him every step of the way. Look. More oxygen meant that everything grew a lot larger than it does today. Bigger plants, hence the trees would have been bigger and sturdier. Bigger people and animals. It all would make a difference.
More oxygen means shorter lifespans. Oxygen is a corrosive substance. Yet Noah and his bunch lived well in excess of 500-odd years or so.
Do you know that a man grew a cherry tomato plant in an environment he believed to be like what was in Genesis before the flood, and it grew to 20 feet, and produced something like 30,000 tomatoes?
I'd like you to show me an article talking about that.
I'll see what I can do. It was in a mall somewhere so I'm sure there must be articles on it.
I'm aware of a tomato tree that allegedly grew to 40 feet in height and produced 15,000 tomatos a year due to massive exposure to CO2 concentrations and limited light intake, both of which are well-understood results in botany.
That may be it. If there was a canopy over the earth, which I believe there was prior to the flood, the conditions it would cause would make sense. Also air pressure would have been affected.
Which means what, exactly? That behavior of plants -- excessively large growth in the absence of light, but with concentrated CO2 availability -- is well-understood. And specific to plants, not animals.
I'm not a scientist, but I know that there are major differences in the earth of today vs the earth of Noah's day.
The Earth of Noah's day, according to you, was only 6,000 years ago. The differences are minimal, except with regard to the proclivity of greenhouse gasses -- namely, CO2. If anything, things should be larger now than they were then, not vice versa.
Nope. Things are getting worse, not better. Look at dinasours. They couldn't even breathe in today's atmosphere. They'd need a lot more oxygen in the air to survive.
I can find no indication to support that claim.
Tell me, are you referencing Kent Hovind for your arguments?
Indeed I am, and no, you're not going to change my mind, so don't waste your time or mine in trying to do so. I'm actually hoping to take a trip to Pensacola this summer, with some friends. Lord willing. I want to see his museum.
You have no qualms about being closed-minded?
I'm not closed-minded. I'm Christ-minded. Or at least I'm trying to be. I listen, and then I pray, and then I do what the Lord says is right. Most of the time.
"You're not going to change my mind." In other words, you're unwilling to consider another conclusion than the one you've already reached. That's the definition of closed-mindedness.
That's a true statement. If anyone is going to change my mind, it would be God. Everything has to go through Him.
::shrugs:: If anyone's going to change your mind, it's going to have to be you. All anyone else can do is give you the information. Though, this conversation has done much to confirm pre-existing assumptions I had about you.
My final authority is the Word, and the One who wrote it. I try to live my life by that. I'm not perfect, but I am striving for a closer walk with my Creator.
In case it's not abundantly clear, my view is that the "word" was written by a bunch of different men with agendas of their own, and that your "creator" is your mother (and father).
I know what you believe. Doesn't change what I know to be true. When you have known the Lord personally, you cannot be told that He does not exist. It's like trying to tell me there's no such thing as chocolate or cheesecake. I've *tasted* it. It's real. You are free to believe what you want. I will believe in what I know in my heart, soul and spirit to be true. And I will continue to pray for your soul. Because believe it or not... Jesus loves you too.
::shrugs:: If Jesus loves me, then Jesus won't send me to Hell when I die. If Jesus is a self-possessed bastard, as he appears to be from his attitudes in the Bible, then he'll send me there. Or, if he simply doesn't exist, I've lost nothing. At least I won't have wasted my time, and embarassed myself by pretending reality adheres to a set of rules that is blatantly contradicted at every turn.
I did the best I could to refute her stuff on its own grounds rather than using science, because science is the product of the devil of course, but she kept on throwing these ludicrous things at me that I wasn't at all prepared for. I submit it here as a case study, more than anything else.
I mean, not as cool as Alladin's Genie, but pretty cool too.
