Dawn of Forever, Part L (Unity Chapter 250)

[Sonnenburg]

Wow, it's over. Good of course. Very good.

I;m still not entirely convinced by the additional crossovers being added in, but they certainly worked properly in this chapter.

Good, I'm glad. I realize some of you didn't care for them, and I'm always sorry to disappoint, but obviously it was too late to turn back.

I was really expecting Sebastian to just die. Find peace in death and all that. The ending was rather suprising then. It's certainly a fiting ending, although again I'm not 100% convinced by the use of Doctor Who to achieve it. Ill withold judgement on that though untill I go back and read the chapter in which the doc-tor and that lot appear I've forgotten what happened in it and want a look. Can anyone point me to that chapter?

It's in the Prologue, actually.

Nice ending for the Oracle. And while I supose you did sort of killed Janeway, but I'm not quite sure that's what the "kill Janeway already" loby was hoping for.

It's a very strange sort of murder-suicide going on there...

Anyway, a great ending to a great series. You have my sincere gratitude for writing it and allowing us all to read it.

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it.

[Sonnenburg]

Cool.

So Janeway's like that Alien City, Seven told the story about? Appearing from no where to kill herself? Where did the Oracle come from, really? Head explodes.

Oh, gold star!

"What I mean is, this was obviously the light side of the Force. If it could save a world from extinction..." Morgan shivered. "What kind of horrors could the Dark side unleash?"

[Sonnenburg]

Bravo, for giving both Seven and Sebastion the ending they deserve. For not making Solo an idiot, and finally for insuring Janeway never ever possibly gets an end.

Bravo .

I like to think of myself as an instrument of karma.

Thanks!

[Sonnenburg]

That was an excellent ending for Janeway and indeed the entire series. Just absolutely wonderful... and dammit, I can't believe I forgot about that random corpse.

*claps*

Thank you. Now, how many of you recalled the Oracle's insane mutterings in Chapter II?

"Just have to remember to be rational... have to think... have to remember... I can do it right this time. I have the knowledge, and with that they can't hope to fool me. This time I'll have the edge. Just have to be careful. Have to remember. Can't have a temporal paradox. Paradoxes are dangerous things. Paradoxes will swallow you up. Nature abhors a vacuum, and a vacuum in time even more so. There's so much to remember... so much that has happened... or has it already happened... can't think with the displacement... I'll need this. This can be reversed; the Sith have the power to do anything. Just have to remember it all... I can do it this time..."

Also (since I feel like rambling) there was an important turning point in Chapter XXX that was in there by design. Annika points out to the Oracle that she's had her revenge now, that why doesn't she just stop. It's the one chance where the Oracle is being offered a way out, a way to escape from the paradox. All she has to do is say yes, and she'd be free of it. But she never will, her love for power is what ultimately condemns herself to this sorry state... that's an important part: her punishment is self-imposed.

[Sonnenburg]

Hmm, infinite recursions, so infinite possibilities. Which means infinite opportunities for Sebastian to beat Janeway to death with his cane. Which means that from a certain point of view, he did in fact repeatedly beat her to death with it. I can live with that.

If you're happy, I'm happy.

Such an incredible number of threads tied together. Why can't Janeway bring Jorri back to be pointlessly cruel? Because they're omnipotent, bitch.

Good eye! Right on target!
It's the same reason, incidentally, that the Oracle wasn't able to restore the dead Janeway. Her powers are great, but the powers of time are greater, no matter how much she might brag otherwise.

Turning the 'Ohmigosh the vision of my lost loved one I must drop my guard like a retard' cliche on its head was a wonderful touch as well.

Thanks; Jaina didn't get a lot of "screen time" but in my view handling the training of the students is going to mean that she's one wily customer. She's not going to fall for some apprentice's simple tricks.

Well, now I have to revise my previous assessment. Total ranking no more than 45 on the angst-ometer. How the hell you pulled a reasonably happy ending out of that(well, aside from all the dead people who weren't reuinited with their lost loves) is beyond me, and I saw you lay it all out.

I figure of all the characters in the series, Sebastian deserved the most to have his dreams come true.

Incidentally, while I haven't deliberately written it to be this way, I like to think that in part, this was Q's doing. After all, as he remarked, bringing Jorri back in a manner that would matter to Bastian (i.e., making sure she's truly the one he'd loved and not a doppelganger) was beyond even his power... the only way he could possibly do it would be to bring in other omnipotent beings to help, like, say, tempting them with an amusing game... "I'm not without some mercy." Of course, like the Jorri-Bastian encounter in Act II, I'm deliberately leaving it open to however anyone wants to interpret it.

[Sonnenburg]

Since this is the end, I have a couple final questions I'd like to ask you guys, and I'd really appreciate it if you could answer them.

1) Did you think when the planet blew that Sebastian died?

2) At what point did you deduce what Annika's plan was to dispose of the Oracle?

3) When did you realize that Sebastian would finally be re-united with Jorri?

4) There's one point I deliberately left unstated, but was wondering if it was caught. Q, as you notice, isn't in his judges robes and on his throne, he's in his usual garb and lounging about. The implication was that the trial was now over, that Sebastian had finally proven that he deserved the power he was going to be given. I was going for subtle, of course, but I'm curious if that was caught or not?

Thanks in advance, and thanks to everyone for all your remarks and patience over the years. This is, by the way, truly the end for Unity. While small stories could no doubt be written of the adventures of Han and his new crew, or of the Protector's journey, or of Bastian's daily struggles, or how Morgan would fulfill her own destiny, I think it's better to leave them to the imagination. Unlike AAO, I haven't left a backdoor this time, so as Death puts it, it's time for me to put the chairs on the table, turn out the lights, and lock the universe behind me as I leave.

[CERC]

well done. I think you are right, that is about the best way it could end.... even though Janeway didn't technically die, I like the thought of her being stuck in a looping hell for the reminder of eternity. Bravo!

Just so you guys know, it was always the intention of Janeway being stuck this way, so you have no idea how much I have laughed over the years at people saying how they're looking forward to seeing her die, and knowing what was actually going to happen...

sadist


CERC

[CERC]

Since this is the end, I have a couple final questions I'd like to ask you guys, and I'd really appreciate it if you could answer them.

1) Did you think when the planet blew that Sebastian died?

2) At what point did you deduce what Annika's plan was to dispose of the Oracle?

3) When did you realize that Sebastian would finally be re-united with Jorri?

4) There's one point I deliberately left unstated, but was wondering if it was caught. Q, as you notice, isn't in his judges robes and on his throne, he's in his usual garb and lounging about. The implication was that the trial was now over, that Sebastian had finally proven that he deserved the power he was going to be given. I was going for subtle, of course, but I'm curious if that was caught or not?

Thanks in advance, and thanks to everyone for all your remarks and patience over the years. This is, by the way, truly the end for Unity. While small stories could no doubt be written of the adventures of Han and his new crew, or of the Protector's journey, or of Bastian's daily struggles, or how Morgan would fulfill her own destiny, I think it's better to leave them to the imagination. Unlike AAO, I haven't left a backdoor this time, so as Death puts it, it's time for me to put the chairs on the table, turn out the lights, and lock the universe behind me as I leave.

1. No I didn't. I didn't know exactly how he wasn't going to die, but it seemed logical he wouldn't. Whether it was to become one with the Force or live.....

2. About the time she said six.

3. Figured that would happen right after she was killed by Ben actually.

4. Yeah, I thought that was what you were going for.

CERC

[Spice Runner]

Excellent end to an era Chuck. Its odd, I've gone from loathing Janeway to actually pitying her towards the end. Truly great writing.
As for your questions,

1. Yeah pretty much. I was thinking that Sebastian did his part to bring the different races and governments together. I remember one of the characters, probably Sisko, mentioning that Unity had to be established from within and that no one could impose it so I assumed that Sebatian completed his job and was going to die. Heh, I'm glad I was wrong though.

2.) I had some gist of what she was planning when she had that epiphany at around the line "Six...6..."

3.) I didn't think Jorri would be reunited with Sebastian until at the end when Q changed things.

4.) I was wondering why Q was dressed in a starfleet uniform.


There is something I don't understand though. In this infinate timeloop that Janeway has become stuck in, is she going to keep on failing everyime? Isn't there some chance that she might actually suceed in her plans? Can she still pose any threat to our heros in the present or has the Oracle been shunted off into another universe? Thanks for the clear up, multiple timelines and temporal matters always confuse the hell out of me.

One more thing. Who or what was that being that Sebastian was talking to in chapter XLIX? I'm referring to the entity that appeared in the form of the cosmos and told Sebastian the story of Prometheus and Epimetheus.

[Ghost Rider]

Since this is the end, I have a couple final questions I'd like to ask you guys, and I'd really appreciate it if you could answer them.

1) Did you think when the planet blew that Sebastian died?

In some ways, yes...until reading Cirule's bit. That was a twist, and I did wonder if there was really going to be nothing left for Bastion.

2) At what point did you deduce what Annika's plan was to dispose of the Oracle?

For me, nearly the end. I look back and see where you gave hints but I was reading more of Bastion then Annika's that I missed a few hits.

3) When did you realize that Sebastian would finally be re-united with Jorri?

Honestly at Cirule. Literally who the hell was he going to tell about Bastion's death personally.

4) There's one point I deliberately left unstated, but was wondering if it was caught. Q, as you notice, isn't in his judges robes and on his throne, he's in his usual garb and lounging about. The implication was that the trial was now over, that Sebastian had finally proven that he deserved the power he was going to be given. I was going for subtle, of course, but I'm curious if that was caught or not?

It was nice, because you gave the room, but like you said, he was just there. It was a nice little point you gave.

Thanks in advance, and thanks to everyone for all your remarks and patience over the years. This is, by the way, truly the end for Unity. While small stories could no doubt be written of the adventures of Han and his new crew, or of the Protector's journey, or of Bastian's daily struggles, or how Morgan would fulfill her own destiny, I think it's better to leave them to the imagination. Unlike AAO, I haven't left a backdoor this time, so as Death puts it, it's time for me to put the chairs on the table, turn out the lights, and lock the universe behind me as I leave.

Nah, like you pointed out, time to clean up. You told the tale that needed to be told. You achieved the vision that you set out, all else is frosting.

[Star Empire]

1) Did you think when the planet blew that Sebastian died?

I really wasn't certain. From Seven death statements I was sure the he would live, but when we got to that point, I wondered and was leaning toward him having actually died. I certainly wasn't completely sure until he showed up again.

2) At what point did you deduce what Annika's plan was to dispose of the Oracle?

Do you mean of throwing her in a loop? If that, not until it actually happened. I didn't forget the body. I was actually wondering at the beginning of the chapter what you would do with it, but didn't piece it together correctly until the end unfortantely (although it all made immediate sence then.

3) When did you realize that Sebastian would finally be re-united with Jorri?

Not until the absolute end. Those were the prices of unity and I didn't think it would be undone. That said, I loved it. It was a happily ever after, but only sort of. The work will still be extensive (putting it mildly), and that isn't ignored, but he still gets what he wants more than anything in the world back. He has his family and with them, he'll go through anything.

4) There's one point I deliberately left unstated, but was wondering if it was caught. Q, as you notice, isn't in his judges robes and on his throne, he's in his usual garb and lounging about. The implication was that the trial was now over, that Sebastian had finally proven that he deserved the power he was going to be given. I was going for subtle, of course, but I'm curious if that was caught or not?

This I did catch. I was expecting it to be explicitly stated that the trial was over. When it wasn't I wasn't entirely sure whether, as we have been reminded in the past, it continues, or if it had ended.

Thank you again for his story. I loved it, especially the last chapter. Putting Q and the lot in where great. Janeway's end was so fitting. I look forward to continuing reading the revised blood of heros and then will probably go back and reread his one again (couldn't keep up, despite the attempt with this weeks furry of revisions). Now that the whole story is told, I'm trying to think of which individual story I liked best. The problem is that I keep changing my mind. Other than WWE and Paradise Lost (both of which I still love), I feel somewhat inclined to put them all there. I guess I'll side with Shadows in the Night, but Blood of Heros and Dawn of Forever are close, and Against All Odds is not far behind them either.

Thanks again. Good luck with everything.[/quote]

[Dalton]

1) Did you think when the planet blew that Sebastian died?

Yes, I thought so. He had nothing to live for anymore.

2) At what point did you deduce what Annika's plan was to dispose of the Oracle?

Not until Janeway wound up back in her own past.

3) When did you realize that Sebastian would finally be re-united with Jorri?

When Q corrected him. There was a lump in my throat when I read that

4) There's one point I deliberately left unstated, but was wondering if it was caught. Q, as you notice, isn't in his judges robes and on his throne, he's in his usual garb and lounging about. The implication was that the trial was now over, that Sebastian had finally proven that he deserved the power he was going to be given. I was going for subtle, of course, but I'm curious if that was caught or not?

I totally missed it, honestly.

[Dalton]

Hate to toot my own horn here, but there's a new Unity page for the Archive

[2000AD]

1) Did you think when the planet blew that Sebastian died?

2) At what point did you deduce what Annika's plan was to dispose of the Oracle?

3) When did you realize that Sebastian would finally be re-united with Jorri?

4) There's one point I deliberately left unstated, but was wondering if it was caught. Q, as you notice, isn't in his judges robes and on his throne, he's in his usual garb and lounging about. The implication was that the trial was now over, that Sebastian had finally proven that he deserved the power he was going to be given. I was going for subtle, of course, but I'm curious if that was caught or not?

Apart from "Yes, i thought Sebastion had died" all i can say is that i just sat there and read it, i didn't try to predict the plot or guess any deep meanings.

[Crazedwraith]

1) Yes I thought he was dead.
2)When it became obvious. As in Oracle just killed Janeway obvious
3)When you showed Jorri alive and well.
4) Nope missed it. (not one for subtext I'm afriad)

Also We can do the list of surviving main characters now:

Bashir
Crusher
The Doctor
(Why did you always let the Doctor of the series live?)

Naomi Wildman
Harry Kim
Han Solo.
Jaina Solo
Anakin Solo.

Anybody I've missed?

Edit: Oh and love the AAO Dice. That is all.

[Chris OFarrell]

Hate to toot my own horn here, but there's a new Unity page for the Archive

Jorri is LIV TYLER?

I can see why Sebastian instantly chose to jump back into Reality!
Nice webpage.

As for the final chapter, I could gush all over it but in complete honesty, I have to say that the leadup with Seven and Mara running into alternate universes (especialy the comic universes) really jared me and I didn't have time to get over that. The Doctor Who thing jared me even more, to be fair I've never been a huge fan of it but I frankly think the whole thing could have been just as easily done by Q, perhaps even showing him as something OTHER then a cold and heartless barstard.

That said, there were some moments I damn well cheared my lungs out or my eyes started to water up.

The Queens arm appearing out of nowhere and grabbing the Vongs, then a bizzilion Borg just appearing to confront the Phantom Army in that implacable...it was just so perfectly done. I could HEAR the Queen with that slight smile saying "NO Borg stands alone". It was just so....Borg! So perfect.

I still think it would have been perfect if as Sebastian got into the pod, he could have muttered something about not feeling too hapy about this, so a Drone steps up with a Fruit Basket

Sebastian's "Ok, NOW I'm pissed" was also *perfect*, so Luke/Annika

His 'Final Orders' speach had a lump in my throat, never thought "Commence Primary Ignition" could sound so heroic...

Janeways timelooping...well, it's a fitting punishment for the "Master of Time" As brilliant a villian as you turned her into, I still was chearing at her defeat.

I am seriously going to miss this saga. As Q said, "All Good things..." but damnit I didn't want THIS to come to an end. Speaking bluntly, you and this fanfic (along with Stavo and his) inspired me to try writing my own fanfic...but NOT to write fanfic, like I had tried a few times before, but failed after a chapter or two.

YOU and he told me how to TELL A STORY, *not* write fanfiction...and frankly thats a gift that I can't express my thanks enough for.

[Stuart Mackey]

Its been a supurb story Chuck, well done.

[Sonnenburg]

There is something I don't understand though. In this infinate timeloop that Janeway has become stuck in, is she going to keep on failing everyime? Isn't there some chance that she might actually suceed in her plans? Can she still pose any threat to our heros in the present or has the Oracle been shunted off into another universe? Thanks for the clear up, multiple timelines and temporal matters always confuse the hell out of me.

Well, to be practical, she can't break the cycle any more. As Annika observed, both the living and the dead Janeway "belong" in this universe; unless she could restore her dead self back to life, it's impossible for her to escape the loop; she'll just be stuck making the same mistakes.

One more thing. Who or what was that being that Sebastian was talking to in chapter XLIX? I'm referring to the entity that appeared in the form of the cosmos and told Sebastian the story of Prometheus and Epimetheus.

It's open to interpretation. Simplest would be to think of it as being a living embodiment of the Force, similar to what spoke to Luke when he rejected the Dark side right before his death. But the underlying intent was for Sebastian to somewhat meet the... destiny, I guess you might say, that's been compelling him throughout his life, to essentially find out from it that regardless of all the horrible things it's heaped on him, that it has always loved him and wants to see him become what he will become.

I suppose, when you get down to it... I suppose it's me.

[Sonnenburg]

Hate to toot my own horn here, but there's a new Unity page for the Archive

And this looks so freakin' sweet.

[Sonnenburg]

Jorri is LIV TYLER?

I can see why Sebastian instantly chose to jump back into Reality!
Nice webpage.

Yeah, we cast the part for Jorri.
Now I'm kind of wondering what Morgan looks like. I mean, Jeri Ryan and Liv Tyler's looks together...

As for the final chapter, I could gush all over it but in complete honesty, I have to say that the leadup with Seven and Mara running into alternate universes (especialy the comic universes) really jared me and I didn't have time to get over that. The Doctor Who thing jared me even more, to be fair I've never been a huge fan of it but I frankly think the whole thing could have been just as easily done by Q, perhaps even showing him as something OTHER then a cold and heartless barstard.

I understand, and I'm sorry so many people seem disappointed by that aspect. It's pretty much why I pushed through it early on and quickly, but I was pretty much committed at this point.

That said, there were some moments I damn well cheared my lungs out or my eyes started to water up.

The Queens arm appearing out of nowhere and grabbing the Vongs, then a bizzilion Borg just appearing to confront the Phantom Army in that implacable...it was just so perfectly done. I could HEAR the Queen with that slight smile saying "NO Borg stands alone". It was just so....Borg! So perfect.

After being, essentially, the means for Sebastian to rise up and take his place over the course of the last sixty chapters, it seemed wrong not to let them have some special place in the grand scheme, and Bastian really did need some way of facing off against the mind.

I personally think too much of the view of the Borg sees their interdependency as a weakness, probably because of the BOBW ending, and never really recognize its strength.

I still think it would have been perfect if as Sebastian got into the pod, he could have muttered something about not feeling too hapy about this, so a Drone steps up with a Fruit Basket

I really, really had to keep myself in check, basically allowing Roger to be the comic relief, to keep the story mostly in the right tone. But I will admit I so, so wanted to do the following:

“You do realize you’re just borrowing that body,” Mara said.
“This isn’t wise,” Six commented.
Annika held up her hands. "Okay, okay," she said, "before we go any further, I just want to mention the name of one man who is very relevant to this." She took a deep breath, then ran around the corner. "LEEEEROOOY JENNNNKIIIINSSS!!!"

Sebastian's "Ok, NOW I'm pissed" was also *perfect*, so Luke/Annika

Thanks, that's pretty much what I've gone for, that Bastian's his mother's son (e.g. both of them tending to say "son of a bitch" when they have a revelation).

His 'Final Orders' speach had a lump in my throat, never thought "Commence Primary Ignition" could sound so heroic...

Thank you. By now I'm sure you've seen my love for taking what we know and trying to turn them inside out (such as the ending of chapter 40, which is obviously lifted from the end of ANH, except with the good guys in the role of the Death Star this time).

Janeways timelooping...well, it's a fitting punishment for the "Master of Time" As brilliant a villian as you turned her into, I still was chearing at her defeat.

Janeway's final revenge on me, however, is that everyone I tell about her just kind of rolls their eyes at me. "Yeah yeah, Darth Janeway... freakin' fanboy weirdo..."

I am seriously going to miss this saga. As Q said, "All Good things..." but damnit I didn't want THIS to come to an end. Speaking bluntly, you and this fanfic (along with Stavo and his) inspired me to try writing my own fanfic...but NOT to write fanfic, like I had tried a few times before, but failed after a chapter or two.

YOU and he told me how to TELL A STORY, *not* write fanfiction...and frankly thats a gift that I can't express my thanks enough for.

Thank you. The only rewards to fanfics are a) the personal satsifaction of accomplishment, and b) the remarks of those who read it. I've heard many of the years, and the ones that I always appreciate hearing are when someone has in some way felt something for the characters I love, or that it has in some way given them something even more than just a good story. That is by definition what art is, and it remains perhaps the greatest of all compliments to receive, and I wish you luck in your endeavors so that you can know exactly what I mean, having experienced it yourself.

[Sonnenburg]

Its been a supurb story Chuck, well done.

Thanks!

[Crayz9000]

You know, one thing I had been trying to figure out right up until the very end was that moment where Annika opened the casket and found Janeway's body inside. I do seem to remember someone suggesting that Janeway managed to kill herself though, but I had thought that somehow she managed to bring another Janeway in from another universe and that she died...

Then the end hit, and it was like all the pieces suddenly clicking into place, to use a well-worn phrase. I still don't know how you can manage to do that, Chuck.

[Sonnenburg]

You know, one thing I had been trying to figure out right up until the very end was that moment where Annika opened the casket and found Janeway's body inside. I do seem to remember someone suggesting that Janeway managed to kill herself though, but I had thought that somehow she managed to bring another Janeway in from another universe and that she died...

Then the end hit, and it was like all the pieces suddenly clicking into place, to use a well-worn phrase. I still don't know how you can manage to do that, Chuck.

Thank you. I'd like to say there's a trick to it, but really it is a lot of hard work. You map out where the characters and plot events are going to go until their resolution, and then you see if they can be added back into the equation again without causing the wrong kind of interference, or of giving away too much of what is planned. It's easy to say, but takes a great deal of time and thought to make sure you don't miss anything, especially with someone whose backstory is as complex as the Oracle's is. But the reward for pulling it off is a hoot, I must say.

I'm reminded of something Tom DeFalco said: a story doesn't have to be complicated to be complex.

[Dalton]

Hate to toot my own horn here, but there's a new Unity page for the Archive

And this looks so freakin' sweet.

Eventually though I'll replace Luke's headshot there, because it's overexposed.

[LordShaithis]

Having derived years and years worth of entertainment from this story, I really have no right to bitch about a few niggling things. But since getting slagged by readers for the 1% of your output they object to is part of the author's trade, I'm going to do so anyway.

Okay, first off, fuck Battlestar Galactica. That is where Six comes from, right? I don't know for sure, because I don't watch or give a shit about Galactica, and I pretty much skipped all the Seven & Mara parts after I realized they were just going to be a plausibility-breaking series of shout-outs to every single sci-fi franchise the author has ever enjoyed. Get that shit outta here, I'd be reading BSG fanfic if I gave a damn about it.

And please tell me I didn't spend seven years reading the greatest Trek/Wars crossover ever, just to get peckerslapped with a Doctor fucking Who reference in the last twelve seconds. I don't even know what the hell Doctor Who is, except that it's British and gets talked about on this forum a lot.

This sudden urge to turn a years-long SW/ST story into SW/ST/BSG/Doctor Who/Whatever Was On Sci-Fi This Weekend story just mystifies me. I mean, Chuck, remember the time Lt. Hit-Man had a contest for SW/ST/Terminator crossovers? And you entered sort of reluctantly, figuring that a three-way crossover was sort of a dubious proposition? You were right then, and this silly overly-referential sort of "victory lap" you made in the last two chapters didn't do this otherwise-epic story any service.