Just what is "Liberal Arts" anyway?

[Dennis Toy]

I keep hearing of this so-called bullshit degree called "Liberal Arts". This is the degree that supposed to keep people who get it from getting a good job. Just what does it do? what is it good for? and why do colleges offer it?

[Darth Wong]

I keep hearing of this so-called bullshit degree called "Liberal Arts". This is the degree that supposed to keep people who get it from getting a good job. Just what does it do? what is it good for? and why do colleges offer it?

It refers to a whole category of degrees, not any particular one. Basically, the liberal arts encompasses things like music, art, history, English literature, drama, and many of the so-called "soft sciences" like sociology and psychology.

When used in a derogatory fashion, it tends to refer to any university-level field of study where mathematics is either not required at all or is needed only at the most rudimentary level, like "statistics".

[Darth Raptor]

It's like a big boy's high school diploma. Since high school diplomas are virtually useless for anything beyond grocery sacking, there needs to be an indicator of minimal intelligence that employers can use.

Beyond that, it's nothing but a stepping stone towards something greater and ultimately more usefull. Under no circumstances would I consider an AA or BA to be a completed education. Only one that was abandoned at a convenient cutoff point.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

It refers to a whole category of degrees, not any particular one. Basically, the liberal arts encompasses things like music, art, history, English literature, drama, and many of the so-called "soft sciences" like sociology and psychology.

When used in a derogatory fashion, it tends to refer to any university-level field of study where mathematics is either not required at all or is needed only at the most rudimentary level, like "statistics".
_________________

A Liberal Arts degree here is also something that refers to a general education degree, instead of being simply a slew of potential majors. For example, I my degree is History, a Humanity which is a type of Liberal Art, or I could get a Liberal Arts degree, which, according to our booklet, has no focus. It seems for people who are absolutely clueless and don't know what they want to do in life.

I didn't know if you knew, or maybe if they just have that type of degree here and not there.

One of my friends is actually a Liberal Arts degree candidate. His classes have been a lot like general ed part 2.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

BA to be a completed education. Only one that was abandoned at a convenient cutoff point.

Here in NJ, I believe they have to have a MA to teach, but you can start off teaching with a BA. I don't know if that's the new standard or how long that has been in place. Perhaps some of the Humanities teachers on the forum could correct me.

[Jaded Masses]

While being a math/science person (elitist) , I personally don't consider a liberal arts degree to be useless or worthless. To the contrary I think it's vastly better then no degree. While it may not have great (direct) worth for jobs; so what? It still has worth for the person, maybe they like the subject... It rounds people out, maybe not as well as a hard science degree but it still puts more in their heads then otherwise.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

While being a math/science person (elitist) , I personally don't consider a liberal arts degree to be useless or worthless. To the contrary I think it's vastly better then no degree. While it may not have great (direct) worth for jobs; so what? It still has worth for the person, maybe they like the subject... It rounds people out, maybe not as well as a hard science degree but it still puts more in their heads then otherwise.

[

Well, they aren't useless at all. Some types are. My Liberal Arts degree will be very useful, for example. They are only useless when stupid people take bullshit courses as a part of a specifically nonsensical Arts degree that has no practical value in reality, but that's not all of them. Several of the arts are also very useful to society, although they are not as difficult to learn as sciences. Naturally, this would be so.

There are several Liberal Arts degrees that, if chosen wisely can be useful for jobs. Science degrees are good, but they aren't to be confused with the only degree that can used for a job.

A lot of the problem aslo comes from people who go after the actual Liberal Arts degree, since that's made for people who are undecided. It's a way of doing nothing, but paying for it so the university can milk you for money.

[Nephtys]

While being a math/science person (elitist) , I personally don't consider a liberal arts degree to be useless or worthless. To the contrary I think it's vastly better then no degree. While it may not have great (direct) worth for jobs; so what? It still has worth for the person, maybe they like the subject... It rounds people out, maybe not as well as a hard science degree but it still puts more in their heads then otherwise.

It's better than no degree, but many holders of these humanities and such degrees feel that they've worked 'just as hard' as us science, engineering and math students. Which of course, is rubbish.

There's a reason probably why math/science/engineering student's don't party weekly/nightly, as many english or business or somesuch students do.

[Jaded Masses]

They are only useless when stupid people take bullshit courses as a part of a specifically nonsensical Arts degree that has no practical value in reality, but that's not all of them.

I agree, but I don't think of practical value in reality as the only benchmark - I think getting a degree just because is a perfectly acceptable reason if you can get around practical considerations.

[Jaded Masses]

I definitely agree that liberal degrees are vastly easier then science ones, and represent far less work and effort.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

Science has a powerful practical application in reality, and that's a big bonus for it. However, people create a demand for other type sof degrees for entertainment and the fact that people are interested in having artists, art critics, writers, historians etc. It won't save us from a giant meteor, though.

But foremost, I think that when people go to college, they have to ask themselves where this can lead them; if they got some money to blow and nothing better to do, then more power to them. It might be nice to study some of the other topics in the Liberal Arts, yea. I would love to learn about all kinds of things, but I have to eat and pay bills, so I think finding an arts career that can land me a job, like a teacher, would be a better investment in my future than studying Marxist Feminism of the 19th century.

Even psychology can be a useful career, but I don't see much call or use for say, Feminist Film Critique. Although, there probably is some market for it.

[Jaded Masses]

To use the example of a friend of mines sister who just graduated from UCI: she doubled in comparative literature and womens studies.

...

yeah, but now she's going to UCLA for graduate studies in library /information/archival science - A good and practical degree. This covers the bases, satisfying personal and professional needs.

[McC]

Depends on the nature of the major. My degree is technically "Art," but the concentration is in digital animation. And I will be glad to step outside with anyone who would like to suggest digital animation is in any way, shape, or form "easier" than something like engineering. Harder? Not necessarily. Easier? Definitely not. I will, however, confidently say that compared to every other individual I know, I put in far more time and effort into my schoolwork (and that includes engineers, mathematics, and computer science/engineering majors).

However, animation is probably the exception rather than the rule, when it comes to "liberal arts" degrees.

[Simplicius]

In vague reference to the first two posts here, one thing that puzzles me to no end is that my school explicitly designates courses in the hard sciences as fulfilling a "liberal arts" requirement, while actual courses in the liberal arts are not so designated. So, tell me again, Mr. Course Catalog Author - Physics is a liberal art, and Creative Writing is what, exactly?

[AK_Jedi]

In vague reference to the first two posts here, one thing that puzzles me to no end is that my school explicitly designates courses in the hard sciences as fulfilling a "liberal arts" requirement, while actual courses in the liberal arts are not so designated. So, tell me again, Mr. Course Catalog Author - Physics is a liberal art, and Creative Writing is what, exactly?

I suppose the courses designated "liberal arts" would be more general type courses without as much math involved. Believe it or not, it is possible to create a low level physics course that does not go beyond high school math. You won't get much out of it though. I guess that it would just be assumed by everyone that creative writing etc. would already by liberal arts.

[Xess]

I would say that Psychology is a worthwhile degree. I know I benefit greatly from seeing my psychologist.

Judging from my parent's degrees I would say that arts degrees aren't overly usefull. My father has a degree in Recreation, he now works as an air traffic controller. My mother has two degrees, statistics and history. I say the best thing she got from that is excellent research skills.

While they may not be practical degrees in the real world, they do have personal value to the holder.

[Coalition]

There are several Liberal Arts degrees that, if chosen wisely can be useful for jobs. Science degrees are good, but they aren't to be confused with the only degree that can used for a job.

One story from techcomedy.com had different tech support people comparing their degrees with their actual tech support job. There was a policeman, a pair of musicians, and a history major who said he was best qualified.

The History major had specialized in the history of the Russian Civil War. The politicking and backstabbing involved was almost a direct match for a large company.

The key with a degree is that it tells an employer that you can be trained, and are willing to self-train in order to get the necessary skills. That is probably the biggest reason for a degree.

[Ryushikaze]

The entire point of the Liberal Arts degree, as was explained to me, was to make sure that even if you decided to go the arts route, you got a comprehensive level of scientific background (Two sciences, hard or soft), and at least some concept of higher math, (at least one of calculus level, which can be substituted out via comp sci courses, unless you're headed towards comp sci, cuz that's part of the study path) to make sure you're not a complete chunderhead when you graduate and make it into the real world.

That's at my alma mater, though. Your milage may vary.

[Aaron]

I would say that Psychology is a worthwhile degree. I know I benefit greatly from seeing my psychologist.

I too greatly benefit from seeing mine, in fact I'd be swinging from the rafters if it wern't for her. She charges 160$ an hour too, so she's making a lot of money and she's always booked two weeks in advance so she's doing well for herself. Of course it helps that she's on Veterans Affairs referal list which is how I came to see her.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I'd like to say that statistics isn't exactly a basic form of maths that denotes a useless degree. Statistics as we know them today were completely reinvented for biology because the original methodology was pretty useless for such experiments in the field, or regarding cell culture. The use of statistical mathematics is a big deal in biology and biochem, though you get to more hardcore stuff with specialised fields there like Michaels-Menten plots and cytoplasmic ion interactions.

[Trytostaydead]

I'd like to say that statistics isn't exactly a basic form of maths that denotes a useless degree. Statistics as we know them today were completely reinvented for biology because the original methodology was pretty useless for such experiments in the field, or regarding cell culture. The use of statistical mathematics is a big deal in biology and biochem, though you get to more hardcore stuff with specialised fields there like Michaels-Menten plots and cytoplasmic ion interactions.

Don't forget epidemiology. FUCK BIOSTATS. Sigh.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Personally, I find ecological models to be annoying, but anything involving enzyme molecular kinetics is a bitch. The numbers of formulae I had to memorise was a bitch enough, and I suck at maths as it is. It's really more understanding why you input the numbers and get the result, not just knowing what ones to calculate.

And knowing is half the battle.

[Lord Poe]

When I went to film school, I took 3 years of crap classes before I even got a foot in the door of any cinema classes. Example: Four hours of "Animal Handling". All lecture. No animals.

My last year, I went to the dean and asked to be put fully in the cinema courses, because I couldn't give a shit about broadcast radio or TV. He said I'd have to "skip" my A.A. degree to do that. Basically, I said...."so?"

I left soon after,because cinema classes were few and far between, the instructor was the only one allowed to load film into the camera, and so on.

Damn, I thew away my A.A. degree....

(Yes, that's sarcasm, folks.)

[UCBooties]

While I am aware that there is a large amount of technical work to be done for a science degree, I find the arogance of implying that they are the only form of "real" higher education to be quite irksome. I am a politics major and that must sound like a laugh off degree to many of you. However, it has held my interest and given me a direction in life whereas I have never been inclined towards the pursuit of pure science. After graduation I intend to join the USAID and do civil development work in the third world for several years before gaining my law degree to study International Corporate law. Development, aid, and foriegn relations are very important to our respective soiceities, and I would like to see some justification for the claim that the pursuit of a career in these fields is somehow less laudible or worthwhile than a career in science.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

If it can be put to use, and it's not something you can do while sleeping, it is real work. It may not be has hard as other real work though. I mean, political science isn't as difficult as electrical engineering.