Clones who killed the conehead..

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2006-06-19 04:55pm

What type of Clone troopers were those dressed in red that killed the Jedi Master Conehead (don't know his name)?

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2006-06-19 05:06pm

Galactic Marines in cold assault armor led by Commander Bacara.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-06-19 05:10pm

And the Jedi Master's name was Ki-Adi-Mundi, by the way.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2006-06-19 05:17pm

He probably enjoys MASS QUANTITIES of beer, though!

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-06-19 05:21pm

Elfdart wrote:He probably enjoys MASS QUANTITIES of beer, though!

Did you post in the wrong thread?

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2006-06-19 05:39pm

Noble Ire wrote:Did you post in the wrong thread?

Either that or it's the most brilliant non-sequitor I've ever seen.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2006-06-19 06:00pm

Noble Ire wrote:
Elfdart wrote:He probably enjoys MASS QUANTITIES of beer, though!

Did you post in the wrong thread?

The Coneheads love MASS QUANTITIES of things. It was on-topic, especially since Trytostaydead called him 'The Conehead'.

Grasscutter · Post by **Grasscutter** » 2006-06-19 06:01pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
Noble Ire wrote:Did you post in the wrong thread?
Either that or it's the most brilliant non-sequitor I've ever seen.

The Coneheads.

Kids these days...

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2006-06-19 06:06pm

Bah, old-timers and their stories.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-06-19 06:26pm

Grasscutter wrote:
Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
Noble Ire wrote:Did you post in the wrong thread?
Either that or it's the most brilliant non-sequitor I've ever seen.
The Coneheads.

Kids these days...

Oh...

Eh, I didn't really like that movie anyways.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2006-06-19 06:31pm

By the way one thing that struck me about that battle scene is that the clones were involved in a heavy firefight trying to take that bridge, so hard fought that Ki Adi Mundi was rallying them to go forward "Come on!" before he was gunned down. Without a Jedi's help I wonder if those clones got blasted all to hell after his death. Sometimes you have to wonder whether the clones could have waited maybe just long enough until Ki helped them win before giving him the ol' 66. Maybe many clone units were killed after losing their Jedi in the midst of heavy combat.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2006-06-19 06:34pm

Could very well be that many clones died giving that command. I don't think it was too big of a concern for Palpatine. Both sides were his armies anyways.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-06-19 06:36pm

Stravo wrote:By the way one thing that struck me about that battle scene is that the clones were involved in a heavy firefight trying to take that bridge, so hard fought that Ki Adi Mundi was rallying them to go forward "Come on!" before he was gunned down. Without a Jedi's help I wonder if those clones got blasted all to hell after his death. Sometimes you have to wonder whether the clones could have waited maybe just long enough until Ki helped them win before giving him the ol' 66. Maybe many clone units were killed after losing their Jedi in the midst of heavy combat.

Order 66 seemed to be just a pre-programmed order to "Kill all Jedi". It was probably not even a concious thing for the clones. One minute they're following their General into battle, the next it's "Blast him!".
So yeah, they probably were killed. Palpatine had the droid armies shut down shortly afterwards so it's really no matter.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-06-19 06:48pm

Noble Ire wrote:
Grasscutter wrote:
Darth Garden Gnome wrote: Either that or it's the most brilliant non-sequitor I've ever seen.
The Coneheads.

Kids these days...
Oh...

Eh, I didn't really like that movie anyways.

Uh, yeah. Are you at least old enough to know it was a series of sketches on SNL before that?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-06-19 06:53pm

Uh, yeah. Are you at least old enough to know it was a series of sketches on SNL before that?

I'm not quite that ignorant, Spanky.

Yes, I do remember that it was an SNL skit, and I've seen most of them; they weren't actually that bad (indeed, most of the early SNL material was quite good), but I generally associate them with the later movie, which wasn't as good.

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2006-06-19 08:22pm

Stravo wrote:By the way one thing that struck me about that battle scene is that the clones were involved in a heavy firefight trying to take that bridge, so hard fought that Ki Adi Mundi was rallying them to go forward "Come on!" before he was gunned down. Without a Jedi's help I wonder if those clones got blasted all to hell after his death. Sometimes you have to wonder whether the clones could have waited maybe just long enough until Ki helped them win before giving him the ol' 66. Maybe many clone units were killed after losing their Jedi in the midst of heavy combat.

We're talking about Palpatine here, the most ruthless Sith ever; he sees the Jedi Knights, droids, Republic citizens, Separatist members and clone troopers as expendable pawns to be sacrificed in their tens of billions to further his selfish plans. Would he care if a few thousand troopers die soon after they finished their task in eliminating the Jedi?

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-06-19 08:31pm

Big Orange wrote:We're talking about Palpatine here, the most ruthless Sith ever; he sees the Jedi Knights, droids, Republic citizens, Separatist members and clone troopers as expendable pawns to be sacrificed in their tens of billions to further his selfish plans. Would he care if a few thousand troopers die soon after they finished their task in eliminating the Jedi?

To say nothing of his own apprentices, who he uses and throws away as a matter of course.

Also, this unfilmed scene for RotS shows how little Clone survival meant regarding Order 66.

The Art of Star Wars Episode III Screenplay, page 243 wrote: EXT . KASHYYYK - EDGE OF VILLAGE - DAY
The Jedi QUINLAN VOS is riding on top of a CLONE TURBO TANK. The main cannon of a second tank slowly swings to point right at him and a COUPLE OF CLONES. The cannon fires, and QUINLAN VOS and the CLONES disappear in a huge EXPLOSION.

Though cut from the movie, this shows that the intent for Order 66 was that the Clones were to pay no heed to their own survival. The Jedi had to die by any means necesarry.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2006-06-20 04:45am

Cao Cao wrote:
Order 66 seemed to be just a pre-programmed order to "Kill all Jedi". It was probably not even a concious thing for the clones. One minute they're following their General into battle, the next it's "Blast him!".
So yeah, they probably were killed. Palpatine had the droid armies shut down shortly afterwards so it's really no matter.

It wasn't pre-programmed according to Dark Lord at least. They just knew what Order 66 was and consciously had to follow it because they were genetically programmed to "Accept any order without question"

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-06-20 04:56am

I think the point is not, if Palpatine cared for the clones or the losses they suffered while/after executing Order 66, the question is about the clones being aware or caring, that killing their supernaturally gifted Generals during combat might not be such a good thing for them themself.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-06-20 06:56am

Crazedwraith wrote:It wasn't pre-programmed according to Dark Lord at least. They just knew what Order 66 was and consciously had to follow it because they were genetically programmed to "Accept any order without question"

Having not read Dark Lord yet I can't comment much on that.
But Cody's "Yes my lord." seemed like a pre-programmed response to me.

FTeik wrote:I think the point is not, if Palpatine cared for the clones or the losses they suffered while/after executing Order 66, the question is about the clones being aware or caring, that killing their supernaturally gifted Generals during combat might not be such a good thing for them themself.

Whether or not Order 66 is a programmed action or not, clones must obey. They're conditioned to obey. Their own lives mean squat as the unfilmed scene with Quinlan Vos clearly shows.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-06-20 08:07am

I don't doubt, that the clones must obey an order. The question is, how much liberty/initiative can they have/show in executing that order.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-06-20 10:31am

Order 66 (which, in its totality, is probably a single line, such as "The Jedi have become treasonous. They are now enemies of the Republic") would simply label the Jedi as enemies. They probably became priority targets because they were nearer to the clones than the Separatist war machines were. There's nothing magical about that.

The clones, even if they had no advance knowledge that 66 would suddenly be executed, also know that the easiest time to kill the Jedi would be when they had their guard down. It would become more difficult if a Jedi became aware that the clones were hostile (either through immediate retatliation or Force speed attempts to escape). They could just continue to fight the Separatist forces after taking a moment or two to kill the trator in front of them.
At that level, there's no magical malicious plan at work.. just simple tactical logic.

Even if it disrupted their coordination temporarily, a spate of clone casualties hardly mean anything for two reasons:
1) Firstly, there's only a few thousand Jedi commanders in the galaxy. Even if the slaying of each one caused a few clone troopers to die, it hardly makes a difference in a galactic war involving billions or trillions of troops.
2) Secondly, a few clone units getting creamed hardly seems relevant when if you take into account that it wasn't much later that Palpatine saw to it that every CIS war droid was shut down remotely.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-06-20 11:57am

FTeik wrote:I don't doubt, that the clones must obey an order. The question is, how much liberty/initiative can they have/show in executing that order.

In all cases seen in both the movie and the script, Clones execute their orders immediately using whatever they have available.
Cody has a tank blast Obi-Wan, Ki Adi-Mundi is gunned down, Aayla Secura is shot in the back, Vos is blown up in his tank, etc. etc. all within moments of recieving the order.
So, they have initiative on how they kill their target Jedi but they have no liberty. They do it as soon as possible with no concern for what happens to them afterwards.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-06-20 12:35pm

Well, as I said, the odds of successfully terminating a Jedi drop exponentially with every passing moment, once they've realized that their clones have become hostile. The clones are well aware of what those Force users can do, being allowed to observe the combat, evasion and escape capabilities of a Jedi firsthand.

Therefore, the clones make the (correct) tactical decision to kill them ASAP.. even at the cost of their own battlefield assets, in the case of Quinlan Vos.

Ar-Adunakhor · Post by **Ar-Adunakhor** » 2006-06-20 02:14pm

Cykeisme wrote:Even if it disrupted their coordination temporarily, a spate of clone casualties hardly mean anything for two reasons:
1) Firstly, there's only a few thousand Jedi commanders in the galaxy. Even if the slaying of each one caused a few clone troopers to die, it hardly makes a difference in a galactic war involving billions or trillions of troops.

*Sigh* Don't you get it yet, you blasted talifan? If the Jedi manage to cut down a few clones without those clones achieving a 10,000:1 kill ratio, the war will be lost! Clearly Palpatine the chess master must have magicked the clones into taking no casualties from attempts to kill the precognitive blaster-deflecting battlegods of doom.

Anyway, you have to remember that one Jedi getting away could be far *far* worse than losing one tank, a starfighter, or even a regiment of troops. They could eliminate key people in the Empire and Grand Army in much the same way Yoda goes for Palpatine, so it only makes sense to sacrifice a few troops now over a major figure in the Imperial political machine later. Of course, I doubt they thought about that. An order is an order, and the one to kill the Jedi came from the very top of the totem pole. Far be it from the modified obedient supersoldiers to question the Big Man.