The Size of the Droid Army "Retconned"

[Darth Wong]

Not to mention the fact that in order to make this house of cards stand up, it is necessary to make the Star Wars Insider magazine higher in canon than the Star Wars Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith novelization. We're quite literally at the point of saying that the "omniscient observer" narrator of the ROTS novelization was deceived by Emperor Palpatine's propaganda because Karen Travesty says so!

[apocolypse]

Not to mention the fact that in order to make this house of cards stand up, it is necessary to make the Star Wars Insider magazine higher in canon than the Star Wars Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith novelization. We're quite literally at the point of saying that the "omniscient observer" narrator of the ROTS novelization was deceived by Emperor Palpatine's propaganda because Karen Travesty says so!

Well you see, Palpatine was a very powerful Sith Lord, so it's entirely conceivable that he was able to use the Force to manipulate the narrator's perspective.

This thing has spiralled all out of proportion because one author would rather cry sexual harrassment and twist fucking G-level canon than to flat out admit it was the fuck-up that we can all clearly see.

[Mange]

This is from TFN:

In the latest SW Insider there is a page showing a variety of CloneTrooper armor. In the copy, it states that George Lucas' plan is to show the full galactic scope of the Clone Wars in Episode III, with battles happening in many locations. The script and animatics reflect this as well.

Of course, DM and Wampa spinned it two ways from Sunday.

EDIT: DM locked the thread. The closing post must be seen to be believed. It contains gems such as:

The more I look at the issues presented here, I see ..what...6? 8? fans complaining about a number, and they can't even back up the basis of the complaint with plausible evidence that there's been some sort of "mistake."

What about that, uh?

+http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa? ... start=0600
Perhaps one ought to take this to feedback, as Sue Rostoni promised fans to "discuss freely" about this.

[VT-16]

I see ..what...6? 8? fans

For a guy who likes to stalk people over the internet, you'd think he'd have a more precise idea of just how many people annoy him. :P

And of course, after most of the evidence has been laid out and don't favor his personal beliefs, he closes the thread and concludes by himself. How quaint.

[Jim Raynor]

Is their any channel where we can send a complaint, other than the moderated feedback forum? I want this douche of a moderator out of the job. Is there anybody at LFL who we can e-mail (and who would care) and present evidence of DM's actions to?

[Elfdart]

What a lying, cowardly, smarmy little prick Dark Moose is! He's far worse than Darkstar.

[Edi]

What a lying, cowardly, smarmy little prick Dark Moose is! He's far worse than Darkstar.

Only because he has been given a position of power to abuse.

edi

[Elfdart]

Is their any channel where we can send a complaint, other than the moderated feedback forum? I want this douche of a moderator out of the job. Is there anybody at LFL who we can e-mail (and who would care) and present evidence of DM's actions to?

You might try a regular letter to Lucasfilm. I doubt they would bother with e-mails (I delete almost all of mine). I would recommend that those who subscribed to Hyperspace and/ or have accounts on the official site write a VERY polite letter to Lucasfilm, explaining your complaints about the site, about Dark Moose, and about Traviss. They will almost certainly send you a reply. What happens next depends on the reply. If they blow you off, send another letter informing them that they have just lost a paying customer, as you refuse to do business with those who insult patrons. And that will be the end of that.

I quit Star Wars EU around 1995-96 when they insulted my intelligence a few dozen times too often. If I can do it, so can you.

[Vympel]

It's pretty easy to see why he locked it- he was being a deliberately facetious dumbfuck who wasn't answering his opponents points- why? So they would lose their cool, and he'd have an excuse to ban them. Clearly, they knew that was exactly his plan and didn't oblige him, and stayed on message. He never responded to the substance of their arguments, strawmanning the fuck out of them and never answering questions instead, thusly:

- the hundreds of assault ships groaning with troops that attacked Muunilist:

- He focused on "it's a noise". No matter how many times he was told the noise was fucking irrelevant, and that the meaning of the expression "groaning with [insert here]" means that the object in question is fucking full, he stayed on "it's a noise". He never responded to repeated challenges to quantify just how many troops he thinks were on these hundreds of assault ships, nor the obvious point that everyone knows exactly what the expression means.

- He called "omnipresent" "vague hyperbole". Of course, no evidence or reason to believe it was hyperbole, and again, not really the fucking point. The quote in question from Labyrinth of Evil establishes quite clearly that Clonetroopers were everywhere on Coruscant, conducting obvious security missions. The point was made that even if all 3,000,000 clones were on Coruscant, your chances of seeing one for an entire year would be slim. He never responded to this.

- He tried to make out that the reference to Grievous being a slaughterer of billions and having overseen the death of entire planets in the RotS novel was in relation to his entire military career, not the Clone Wars. A categorically absurd claim given Mace Windu's thoughts of the death of planets later in the same novel and the RotS:ICS reference to Grievous' atrocities- never mind the obvious bloody context of the quote itself, which is specifically in relation to the Clone Wars.

- He ignored the millions of divisions quote from the AotC:ITW outright and only deigned to respond to it to say that it was a "deviation" or some such nonsense- how convenient.

And so on.

[Lord Poe]

The more I look at the issues presented here, I see ..what...6? 8? fans complaining about a number, and they can't even back up the basis of the complaint with plausible evidence that there's been some sort of "mistake."

That's strange...he keeps bragging that he's banning the half dozen "talifans"...and the number remaining doesn't get any smaller...

[Ar-Adunakhor]

Ever since they started in with the "zomgz there are only like 8 of you lol" angle, I have been wondering the exact count on how many people consistently come to defend the 3-million BS.

I can think of... what? 10 at most? Less? The rest just vulture when they can and fade away when they get slapped.

[Crom]

What's there to do? It sounds like this asshole will just keep banning people that don't agree with him?

[Cykeisme]

..and they can't even back up the basis of the complaint with plausible evidence that there's been some sort of "mistake."

Um, lol?

[Connor MacLeod]

I see ..what...6? 8? fans

For a guy who likes to stalk people over the internet, you'd think he'd have a more precise idea of just how many people annoy him.

And of course, after most of the evidence has been laid out and don't favor his personal beliefs, he closes the thread and concludes by himself. How quaint.

I suppose he has to maintain the illusion of fewer than "a dozen fans" who are angry about Karen's numbers, doesn't he?

[Connor MacLeod]

The more I look at the issues presented here, I see ..what...6? 8? fans complaining about a number, and they can't even back up the basis of the complaint with plausible evidence that there's been some sort of "mistake."

That's strange...he keeps bragging that he's banning the half dozen "talifans"...and the number remaining doesn't get any smaller...

Got a record of him saying that? Maybe you should update the page where the talifans are such a small minority with that info

[18-Till-I-Die]

Well i've said this before and i feel it bears saying again with the nonsense that DarkMoose and his 'kind' ar pushing. But it will probably offend some. Its a question that comes from this whole debacle making me become almost completely disillusioned with Star Wars and especially with the EU.

Anyway...

I have a question, where the hell is Lucas? No seriously where is the actual owner of Star Wars in all this.

Surely he must READ the OFFICIAL magazine about his movies? Surely someone must inform him about what is written in his books, and weather or not his fans are displeased. Certainly he must have someone to keep tabs on them, and what they say to the fans who pay for his lifestyle.

Is he really that divorced from the actual product?

See, whatever else happens, however big a cunt Traviss is or DarkMoose and their ilk--this comes from having a guy who refuses to even put the slightest effort into controlling his 'spin off' universes, while wallowing in the mountains of cash they rake in.

He doest write the EU, i'm rather positive now that he doesnt read it, nor does he, i'm also fairly certain now, try to find out how it goes over with fans. He EXPECTS that fans will eat it up without caring weather or not its good. Its as bad as those idiots that destroyed Star Trek...no, in fact, its the precise same mentality only Lucas actually has some tallent himself instead of just being a hack writrer like those two were. But the same "Let them eat cake!" mentality is there.

Its up to us fans to write letters, and debate, and put up websites to do HIS job, which is to reign in renegade employees and their mindless peons. He doesnt care about us, or the fandom, he cares about our money which we give to him and all we get in return is every few decades a good movie trillogy and heaping piles of EU shit.

How'd that old Nazi joke go..."If Hitler only knew?"

[Mange]

Well i've said this before and i feel it bears saying again with the nonsense that DarkMoose and his 'kind' ar pushing. But it will probably offend some. Its a question that comes from this whole debacle making me become almost completely disillusioned with Star Wars and especially with the EU.

Yes, it's certainly this kind of things which gives a negative impression of the EU and how it's maintained. To be frank, save for the major plot points, it doesn't seem to be managed very well.

Anyway...

I have a question, where the hell is Lucas? No seriously where is the actual owner of Star Wars in all this.

Surely he must READ the OFFICIAL magazine about his movies? Surely someone must inform him about what is written in his books, and weather or not his fans are displeased. Certainly he must have someone to keep tabs on them, and what they say to the fans who pay for his lifestyle.

Is he really that divorced from the actual product?

Yes, I think he is. Except for the major plot points and giving directions as to what can and can't be done in the EU, I really don't think that George Lucas cares very much about it. He has said that he reads the comics, but that he never has read one of the EU novels. The EU has, as he said, a life of its' own.

See, whatever else happens, however big a cunt Traviss is or DarkMoose and their ilk--this comes from having a guy who refuses to even put the slightest effort into controlling his 'spin off' universes, while wallowing in the mountains of cash they rake in.

He doest write the EU, i'm rather positive now that he doesnt read it, nor does he, i'm also fairly certain now, try to find out how it goes over with fans. He EXPECTS that fans will eat it up without caring weather or not its good. Its as bad as those idiots that destroyed Star Trek...no, in fact, its the precise same mentality only Lucas actually has some tallent himself instead of just being a hack writrer like those two were. But the same "Let them eat cake!" mentality is there.

Its up to us fans to write letters, and debate, and put up websites to do HIS job, which is to reign in renegade employees and their mindless peons. He doesnt care about us, or the fandom, he cares about our money which we give to him and all we get in return is every few decades a good movie trillogy and heaping piles of EU shit.

How'd that old Nazi joke go..."If Hitler only knew?"

Yes, this is ruining the franchise and might, in the end, make the SW EU a big joke. We have authors (Traviss) who tries to redefine the Clone Wars to fit to her vision of how it would be, she is not trying to make it fit with George Lucas' vision. What makes things even worse is that the continuity people (it seems to me as if it's Sue Rostoni in particular) goes along with it. What could the reason be? Traviss is a decent author, her RC novels have sold really well and they have been well recieved by the SW community. Could this be one of the reasons as to why they cut her so much slack?

[18-Till-I-Die]

Yeah its insane, in any other business renegade employees who go out of their way to antagonize the customer and collect cliques of mindless peons to help them enforce this, would be out on their ass. That is, if their employer is half-way aware of what is happening.

And i've said this before too...Lucas shouldnt let the EU run rampant if he wants to preserve Star Wars and not let it go the way of Trek. Yes he CAN just make huge, incalcuable sums of money if he does nothing. But really, it should be more important to him to try and create a quality product instead...should, not is.

Really i've been very disillusioned by Star Wars, the EU, and Lucas in this whole debacle. Far as i'm concerned he's just another money hungry writer looking to milk the franchise for all its worth and let it crash and burn when its time has passed, like those two retards (whose names i forget) that drove Trek into the ground. And if anyone had said that a few years ago, i'd have punched them in the mouth.

[VT-16]

What could the reason be?

OMG THE CLONE WARS ARE IRAQ! PALPATINE IS BUSH !!1111 WE'RE SO SMART TO SEE THE PARALELLELLSSS LOLOLZ

That's probably the cause of this. Even so, it has no parallells to SW other than Palpatine causing a war on false pretenses, and the story of the CW was written long before the Iraq war. Hell, AOTC was almost done when 9/11 hit.

And as we see in Iraq, too few troops will not make any progress. The GAR were kicking ass towards the end of the Wars, something I don't see the undermanned, underequipped US army doing anytime soon.

[Mange]

What could the reason be?

OMG THE CLONE WARS ARE IRAQ! PALPATINE IS BUSH !!1111 WE'RE SO SMART TO SEE THE PARALELLELLSSS LOLOLZ

That's probably the cause of this. Even so, it has no parallells to SW other than Palpatine causing a war on false pretenses, and the story of the CW was written long before the Iraq war. Hell, AOTC was almost done when 9/11 hit.

And as we see in Iraq, too few troops will not make any progress. The GAR were kicking ass towards the end of the Wars, something I don't see the undermanned, underequipped US army doing anytime soon.

I've only seen a single person advocating that and who is backed up by DM and his ilks: Traviss. I've never seen a statement from anyone in an official position backing this up. What we have are non-canon claims made by Traviss in blogs etc. to justify the three million figure, claims that are completely non-canon and which also lacks canon support.

[Elfdart]

Looks like Star Wars isn't the only classic film Dark Moose is trying to fuck up:

Dark Moose

[Mange]

Looks like Star Wars isn't the only classic film Dark Moose is trying to fuck up:

Dark Moose

Hmm, it has been flagged as inappropriate. What was it?

[VT-16]

Hmm, it has been flagged as inappropriate. What was it?

Sign up, then! :P

It's a "Raging Bull" parody with Bullwinkle from Rocky & Bullwinkle. :P

[Mange]

Hmm, it has been flagged as inappropriate. What was it?

Sign up, then!

It's a "Raging Bull" parody with Bullwinkle from Rocky & Bullwinkle.

Meh, I don't want to sign up there, but thanks!

[Surlethe]

The more I look at the issues presented here, I see ..what...6? 8? fans complaining about a number, and they can't even back up the basis of the complaint with plausible evidence that there's been some sort of "mistake."

Evidence? I thought that wasn't allowed?