GW/WH40K modelling/gaming discussion thread

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2006-06-19 12:43pm

Got a few Cadians. Here's the preliminary paint job... sorry for the poor light. Kudos to Keevan for the suggestion as to colours!

I think I need a pin-vise or something...

And a bonus-- Ursarkar Creed and Jarren Kell, blister pack for $12 at the game store!

Speaking of Creed and Kell-- I wrote up a 1500-pt army so I could use them as an HQ unit. Advice and recommendations greatly appreciated!

Command Squad
• Lord Castellan Ursarkar E. Creed and Jarran Kell—125 pts
• Command Squad: 4 Guard, one melta and one master-vox, +10 and +20 pts. Frag grenades at +4 pts—34 pts tot.
• Fire Support Squad: 35 pts, 3 heavy bolter @ +45 pts—80 pts tot.
• Total of: 239
Elites
• Stormtrooper squad, 6 stormtroopers plus sergeant for 70 pts, +2 meltas, 20 pts, +voxcaster, 5pts—95 pts tot.
• Techpriest Enginseer, 45 pts, +2 tech-servitors, 20pts, +1 gun-servitor w heavy bolter, 25 pts—90 pts tot.
• Total of: 185
Troops
• Infantry Platoon of:
Cmd. Section, Jnr Officer 40pts + 4 Guardsmen, melta +10pts and voxcaster +5pts—55 pts tot.
2 squads, 60pts, 9 men +2 Sergeants each, grenade launcher +8pts, frag grenades at +20 pts, voxcasters +10pts—88 pts tot.
Total of 153
• Armoured Fist squad, 60pts, grenade launcher +8pts, Chimera +70pts, multi-laser +10pts—148 pts. total
• Total for Troops, 301 pts
Fast Support
• Hellhound, 115 pts
• Sentinel squadron (3 Sentinels at 35pts ea.), one Cadian pattern (+15), two Mars pattern (+20), total of 150
• Total of 265
Heavy Support
• 2 Leman Russ tanks, 140 pts ea., +hull heavy bolter (10pts), +sponsons w pair of heavy bolters each (+20pts), total 330
• 2 Basilisks, 100 pts ea., total 200
• Total of: 510

Total: 1500

Is that good? Recommendations? Advice? I'd also like to have a good 500-pt army to start with and build upon, preferably including a Leman Russ if possible, not necessary though...

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2006-06-19 01:12pm

One too many heavy support choices, you could ditch one tank and use the points to add some wargear to the remaining ones, put a heavy bolter on the chimera to add some dakka and purchase an extra infantry squad with some toys to add another scoring unit.

Azazal · Post by **Azazal** » 2006-06-19 01:27pm

Elheru Aran, very nice look on the Cadians. And I can see improvements on you painting skills already. Keep up the good work.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-06-19 02:16pm

Elheru, the paint scheme looks great, its similar to one used for an Adeptus Arbites squad in a WD battle report some around a year ago. I'd be interested to see how you'll do vehicles though.

As for the list, I'm not used to 1500 pt games, but I may be able to offer a few pointers further than what has already been suggested.

1. More troops: this is the Imperial Guard! A mere two troops units is an embarassment to the Tacticae Imperium!
2. More guns: add some more heavy weapons to the support squads and infantry.
3. Lose the Cadian sentinel: autocannons on sentinels blow.
4. Lose one basilisk, but keep the other vehicles: most armies are configured to be prepared for some vehicles, but if you max out on tanks you may be able to overload opponents anti tank capability. Good choice for the hull heavy bolters too.
5. Consider conscripts: if you don't have many points left, consider adding a full platoon of conscripts. Careful when you deploy them to keep them well spaced, and just use them either as a buffer in front of your big guns, or to advance WW1 stylee. If you're lucky their sheer numbers should prove problematic for your enemy, who will be forced to either waste shots on them or be swamped by lasguns.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2006-06-19 02:39pm

Thanks guys. Wasn't aware I had too many tanks, will probably ditch a Basilisk and add another infantry company-- I needed to buy another box of the blaggards anyway.

Any ideas on a 500-pt army? I'm thinking two infantry platoons and a Leman Russ along with command squad...

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2006-06-19 03:25pm

I wouldn't worry about adding a whole extra platoon - just tack on more squads to the existing one. A platoon that doesn't have 5 infantry squads is a wussy platoon.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2006-06-19 03:33pm

been watching people use eldar vypers and tau shield drones to make imperial "Akira" style bike squads....

"ok now we need to name our librarian brother Tetsuo Shima

can brother captain Kenada mount a Lascannon on his bike?

That NOS Guy · Post by **That NOS Guy** » 2006-06-19 04:17pm

Elheru Aran wrote:Thanks guys. Wasn't aware I had too many tanks, will probably ditch a Basilisk and add another infantry company-- I needed to buy another box of the blaggards anyway.

If you're running a human wave thing, some Russ' in concert can be a nasty flank turner and a great asset.

That being said nothing beats a Basilisk in the bombardment category. Giving it indirect fire you can start pegging enenmy infantry the entire table away without even seeing them.

In addition even a hard charging Guard unit always has a place for something to soften up enemy troops defending or attacking.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2006-06-19 04:34pm

Ok Elheru, here is my advice for your IG. It's gonna be blunt and it's gonna tell you to change a lot of stuff, but if you do even half of it you'll see a major improvement.
Drop the Voxes. For the most part vox blow, and when they don't there are other pieces of equipment or doctrines that do the job better for less points.

Replace the Stormtroopers with veterans. The veteran is just point for point better, and you can get a bunch of plasma and a lascannon in the vet squad, making it good against heavy vehicles and Meq.

Drop the techpriests. They don't match the armour of the rest of the army and thus give the opponents anti-meq guns a target. The main idea behind guard is that anti-meq guns like plasma, melta and starcannon are forced to shoot 6-10 point guardsmen, and thus waste some of their efficency.

Drop all the frag grenades. Who the fuck are you gonna charge in cover, the Tau? You don't win CC off of Inititive but off of weight of numbers. Even going simo with marines is a lose for you.

Add a heavy bolter to the chimera, and add more chimera to the command squads if you have the models. 1 Chimera and 1 hellhound is not enough medium armour saturation. Missle dev squads, Assault Cannons, and bright/dark lances will eat them too fast.

Either drop the sentinels, or give them all las. Either make them enough of a threat to distract HBs and the like, and have the range to stand back and pick off tanks, or just use the points elsewhere. ML sentinels are really poor against any non-horde army, and for hordes you already have the blatantly superior Hellhound, and grenade launchers.

No sergeants in guardsquads. They are worthless. Totally.

More Hellhounds. It is one of the singular best units in IG, so put two in.

Drop one basilisk to make the list legal and put ID on the other basilisk so you can hide it. ID makes people go crazy.

Put in more heavy weapons and more plasma. Las/plas, HB/plas, and AC/plas are the squads for IG to use. The put out the most efficient firepower, and allow for the most versitility in what squads they shoot.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-06-19 06:52pm

Hellion makes some excellent points there, and I'll back up his idea about leaving Sergeants out. Many people think they're mandatory, but its just a wasted model; the same goes for SM and other armies. Just pop another guy with a lasgun in instead, you can even convert it a teensy bit to have a chainsword and lasgun.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2006-06-20 01:12pm

Didn't realize Sergeants were that useless. And I only included the frag grenades cause I stuck 'em on most of my models... I don't have to use 'em

Remember, though, price is definitely a consideration, so likely I won't be getting more than one Hellhound anytime soon-- damn things cost more than a Leman Russ...

Anyway. Wrote up 500 and 1000-pt lists. If y'all could offer critique--?

500 Pt List wrote:Headquarters:
• Command Squad:
Senior Officer (Colonel) 55pts
2 Guardsmen, 2 Veteran Guardsmen (+12 pts), +4 Frag grenades (+4pts), + melta (+10pts), +master-vox (+20pts), Standard Bearer (+5pts), Medic (+5pts) ~ 56pts
• Total: 106pts
Troops:
• Platoon I
Cmd Squad:
LT. (40pts) and 4 Guardsmen, +4 frag grenades (+4pts), +melta (+10pts), +voxcaster (+5pts) ~59pts
Infantry Squads:
2 squads (60pts) of 9 Guardsmen, 1 Sergeant each, flamer (+6pts), grenade launcher (+8pts), frag grenades (+20pts), voxcasters (+10pts) ~ 104pts
• Platoon II
Cmd Squad:
LT (40pts), 4 Guardsmen, +4 frag grenades (+4pts), +melta (+10pts), +voxcaster (+5pts) ~59pts
Infantry Squads:
2 squads (60pts) of 9 Guardsmen, 1 Sergeant each, flamer (+6pts), grenade launcher (+8pts), frag grenades (+20pts), voxcasters (+10pts) ~ 104pts
• Total: 326 pts
Other:
• Hardened Veterans Squad
Veteran Sergeant (13pts) and four Veterans (32pts), melta (+10pts), voxcaster (+5pts), four krak grenades (+8pts) ~ 68
• Total: 68 pts

Total: 500 Points

1000 Pt Army List wrote:Headquarters:
• Command Squad:
Senior Officer (Colonel) 55pts
2 Guardsmen, 2 Veteran Guardsmen (+12 pts), +4 Frag grenades (+4pts), + melta (+10pts), +master-vox (+20pts), +Standard Bearer (+5pts), +Medic (+5pts) ~ 56pts
• Total: 111pts
Troops:
• Platoon I
Cmd Squad:
LT. (40pts) and 4 Guardsmen, +4 frag grenades (+4pts), +melta (+10pts), +voxcaster (+5pts) ~59pts
Infantry Squads:
2 squads (60pts) of 9 Guardsmen, 1 Sergeant each, flamer (+6pts), grenade launcher (+8pts), frag grenades (+20pts), voxcasters (+10pts) ~ 104pts
• Platoon II
Cmd Squad:
LT (40pts), 4 Guardsmen, +4 frag grenades (+4pts), +melta (+10pts), +voxcaster (+5pts) ~59pts
Infantry Squads:
2 squads (60pts) of 9 Guardsmen, 1 Sergeant each, flamer (+6pts), grenade launcher (+8pts), frag grenades (+20pts), voxcasters (+10pts) ~ 104pts
• Total: 326 pts
Other:
• Hardened Veterans Squad
Veteran Sergeant (13pts) and four Veterans (32pts), melta (+10pts), voxcaster (+5pts), four krak grenades (+8pts) ~ 68pts
• Techpriest Enginseer
Enginseer (45pts) +2 Tech-Servitors (20pts) +1 Gun-Servitor +heavy bolter (+25pts) ~ 90pts
• Leman Russ Tanks
Two Leman Russes (280pts) + hull lascannons (+30pts), +heavy bolter sponsons (+20pts), +dozer blades (+10pts), +track guards (+20pts), +extra armour (+10pts), +pintle stormbolters (+20pts), +minesweeper (+10pts), + camo netting (+2pts), +1 smoke launcher (+3pts) ~ 405pts
• Total: 563 pts

Total: 1000 Points

Thinking about ditching the Techpriest, that'd add a few more points to flesh out the Guardsmen... would mean buying and painting a shitload more models, but I could give it a go. 20 models per box... you want to bankrupt me, break my back and ruin my eyes, curl my fingers permanently from holding a paintbrush, or what?!

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-06-20 06:39pm

Ah, now 1000 pts I can help you with. I've had a bash at Guard myself, so I've gone through the beginnings of the 'Oh maybe this would work. *pwnd*. Maybe not...' phase.

First, your command squad...it does nothing. WHat purpose does that melta gun serve? When is that squad going to be within 6" of an enemy vehicle to make it worth the points? Lose the frags too. The main purpose of a CP unit if you don't give it a Chimera is to be just that: a command post. That means lose all the close combat crap, but give them morale benefits, so thats standards and voxes. Give the unit a heavy weapon, and some heavy weapon support squads.

Second, for the love of god, this is the Imperial Guard! Where are the guns! You need heavy weapons in every squad, and every command unit, and you need heavy weapons teams with the HQ squad. Heavy bolters work well, but missile launchers can be even better, best to have a mix of the two depending on your points. Also, think about weapons deployment, you don't want to be forced to shoot anti-infantry weapons at tanks because of single-target squad firing.

Lose the frags from every unit, they're just a waste. I'm skeptical of meltas and such, given Guard accuracy, and the fact that if they're close enough to use them, they're probably dead. Scrap the special weapons and put heavies in. Lose the Sergeants, as suggested before.

Hardened Veterans are a good idea, especially if you're playing objectives. Why haven't you given them 3 specials and a heavy though? Take advantage of the BS 4, give them a lascannon and 3 Plasma Guns, especially deadly against SM's. They can then just drop in on the objective and blast away merrily.

Lose the Techpriest, they are not even close to being worth it in a 1000 pt army.

Tanks=good. However, slow down on the add-ons. Lose the dozer blade, unless you play on extremely terrain heavy boards: this is a battle tank, not a transport. Same with the minesweeper unless you play them lots. Use hull mounted heavy bolters, not lascannons. NEVER lascannons, its just daft. Also, go for the Heavy Stubber instead of the storm bolter, it has the range to keep up with the heavy bolters, and might be enough to break squads. 12 shots isn't to be sniffed at, BS 3 or no.

Here's a demonstration of what gribbliness I came up with for 1000 pts of Guard:

14th Hydraphur Sentinels

Company CP:
Senior Officer: Carapace armour, bionics, surveyor, frag grenades= 68 pts
Command Staff: Medic, Company standard bearer, heavy bolter = 27 pts
2 x Anti Tank support squads: 6 missile launchers = 190 pts
2 x Fire Support squads: 6 Autocannons = 190 pts

Infantry Section:
1st Platoon CP: Junior Officer, heavy bolter = 50 pts
1st Platoon: 2 squads of 10, no sergeants, 2x heavy bolters = 140 pts
2nd Platoon CP: Junior Officer, heavy bolter = 50 pts
2nd Platoon: 2 squads of 10, no sergeants, 2x heavy bolters = 140 pts
3rd Platoon (heavy weapons platoon) CP: Junior officer, heavy bolter = 50 pts
3rd Platoon: Anti Tank support squad, 3x missile launchers = 95 pts

Total heavy weapons = 23.
This list clearly won't work for some missions, however I most commonly played heavy infantry at Cleanse, so a weight-of-fire army like this should have worked well. Some of the bits on the company CP I just chucked in as I had spare points.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2006-06-20 11:48pm

Heavy weapons don't win in 1000 pnts for IG. The platforms for them are too weak. Marines of any varient need only kill 18 guardsmen, and then they can literally just march across the board and kick you. Eldar only need to kill 30 guardsmen (you AT/FS weapons squads) and then they auto win. 30 IG men is very easy with 4-6 starcannon 3-6 shurikan cannon, 2-3 pulse laser etc. that a good 1000 pnt list will field.
Frankly, I think IG is damn near unplayable at 1000 points against legitimate opponents, as all you have is the Russ/Basi line and Hellhounds, and compared to the 4 or so lascannon at BS4 of a marine, asscans and other shit that 1000 point marines are throwing at you, its a very uphill battle.

IG don't get viable til 1500, and even then they are very metagame dependent and have a huge amount of trouble winning in any random enviroment.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2006-06-21 10:52am

The other day I dropped by the games store... was talking with the owner bout the army lists, and he mentioned they play usually from 750-1250... I wasn't aware anybody played outside of the standard 500-1000-1500-2000 stuff?

And so far, I'm guessing I should drop my Sergeants-- I figured keeping them was a good (extra attack), but I guess the voxcasters will do. I may consider adding more heavy weapons, but as those will entail ordering a fair few heavy wpns squads, I'll probably wait on those. I don't really intend on playin' until I've got a fair-sized army in place, with everything painted, so it's not likely to happen for a good while... got plenty of time to work out how I'll organize them

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2006-06-21 03:38pm

with everything painted

Hahahahahahahahaha. Ha. You're investing in the wrong army.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2006-06-22 11:41am

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:
with everything painted
Hahahahahahahahaha. Ha. You're investing in the wrong army.

Eh, it's just not cricket to just plop down a bunch of primed guys and have maybe twenty, thirty models painted out of 300 or somethin...

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2006-06-23 01:52pm

to Gaius again...

Anyway! Finished my first squad.

Army: Necropolis Litharge Third Regiment

Sergeant Ihvon reviews his squad, under the eye of visiting Lord Castellan Ursarkar Creed and Colour-Sergeant Jarran Kell:

Bawling at them!

Creed contemplating the forces with which he's got to work with...

Closeups of Creed:

Comments on how to do Creed appreciated-- I want him to turn out well... same for Kell.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2006-06-23 04:55pm

While it's up to you, of course, you may want to give Creed and Kell their Cadian 8th colors, or very similar ones. Other than that, they look great so far.

Oh, and "first squad done" != "1500 point army fully painted." Though with a mere two Sissy Platoons it might be possible in the near future. Come back when you're struggling to squeeze in another Troops Choice without adding a third company.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-06-23 07:20pm

Your infantry look great, but I really would suggest doing Cadian 8th colours or similar for the Lord Castellan. IMO shinyness REALLY doesn't look good on most models, especially ones that aren't wearing power armour. I'd either go for the old 8th colours, or subtly change them for your normal type of fatigues, but remember this guy's on a battlefield, not a marching ground, and he hasn't got 'armoured to the core so don't need camouflage' as an excuse. Your infantry look really good though, just keep up the good work!

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2006-06-24 03:50pm

Jinkies, my Direct Sales order arrived already, after only 5-6 days. Got a lot of fun bits in there.

Anyway, I say those guardsmen have a fine color scheme. And I'm of the opinion that Creed can be in their colors as well. Hell, I don't see why he can't be used as a custom commander; a unique name and background with the same stats as Creed (or at least similar).

Azazal · Post by **Azazal** » 2006-06-25 08:45pm

Finished off my marine dreadnought

Fully magnatized. The arms, torso, legs, and base are all held by maganets. I can break him down in a couple of easy to transport parts.

LapsedPacifist · Post by **LapsedPacifist** » 2006-06-25 10:02pm

I've decided to start a Necron army in addition to my Blood Angels. Went by the store on Friday and picked out a Monolith, a box of warriors, and a destroyer Lord. I'll pick up the battle box and I should be real close to set for a 1000 point game. Fascinated by all of the units so far, its a neat army.

LP

*EDIT*

I think I'm going to go for a Stargate theme, with markings on forheads, and the destroyers/lith looking like stone or gold.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-06-26 07:02am

That Dread looks great Azazel, thats the bunker assault arm from Forge World isn't it? Neat.

I seem to remember some time ago someone making a model of an Imperial Navy vessel, as in something like a 4 foot long model, but I can't find a picture anywhere. Anyone know what became of it?

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2006-06-26 07:45am

Man that was fun. I went to the Warhammer Doubles Tournament with my housemate over the weekend. We finished 79th out of 109 but it was good fun, we only played one pair of pedantic cocks and all our other opponents were brilliant.

A big hurrah to GW for altering Sundays schedule to fit the England match in and i'll say this: Warhammer World rocks! A fully stocked GW store, over 50 gaming tables and the Bugmans BAr (A bar with all the regular bar stuff, but there's also tables for you to game on as well!)

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-06-26 08:05am

When I actually start assembling it I'll start posting some pics of my Flames of War army.

Currently I have my Fallschirmjager with:

Company HQ w/Snipers & 2.8cm AT rifle team
2 x Full strength FJ platoons
1 x Glider Assault/Pioneer platoon
1 x MG34/42 platoon
1 x Stummelwerfer (8cm paradrop mortar) platoon
1 x Glider Artillery battery (GebG36s)
1 x 10.5cm LG40 battery
1 x 7.5xcm LG40 battery

And I'm collecting an Assault Gun battery (* indicated I have it)
2 x StuG IIIG CHQ w/Bergepanther recovery vehicle
*12 x StuG IIIG (in a large battle these would be in 4 platoons of 3)
*4 x Tiger Is
*1 x Armoured AAA battery (SdKfz 1/7s with armour and quad 20mm mounts)
1 x Hummel battery
2 x Armoured Panzer Grenadier/Pioneer platoons
1 x Armoured Car squadron