Star Wars: Legacy (set 145 ABY and starring Cade Skywalker)

[FTeik]

"Have you ever danced with the Dark Side under a full moon?"

Palpatine viewed himself as a savior (ROTS:VD), in the TOTJ-comics we have a few guys, who turn to the DarkSide for the greater good, so why should this Krayt-guy be an exception?

[Cao Cao]

A Sith Lord who's altruistic.....

Why on earth do they have to bring up another Sith Lord that's like Revan?

How was Revan altruistic?
Revan was one of the few Sith Lords out there who actually had the guts to say "I'm coming to kick your butt and there's nothing you can do about it!"
Nonsensical KotOR II explanation for Revan's abscence non-withstanding.

Now, this Krayt character seems to be entirely derivative of Palpatine. Usurp the galactic government and exterminate all Jedi everywhere for the sake of order and peace?
Gee, where have we heard THAT before?

[VT-16]

He does seem to belong to the new school of Sith-thinking, like Lumiya in Betrayal, that they have to diverge from the ways of the last Sith Lords like Sidious, and somehow one-up them that way. (Even though he's making the same mistake as Lord Kaan by making "everyone" a Sith Lord.)

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

How was Revan altruistic?
Revan was one of the few Sith Lords out there who actually had the guts to say "I'm coming to kick your butt and there's nothing you can do about it!"
Nonsensical KotOR II explanation for Revan's abscence non-withstanding.

Now, this Krayt character seems to be entirely derivative of Palpatine. Usurp the galactic government and exterminate all Jedi everywhere for the sake of order and peace?
Gee, where have we heard THAT before?

Because Revan wanted a strong and united galaxy the Ancient Sith Empire in the Unknown Regions and he himself went there after the defeat of Malak?

[FTeik]

But don't you see? He is not just a Sith Lord, he is "The Dark Lord of the Sith".

[Cao Cao]

How was Revan altruistic?
Revan was one of the few Sith Lords out there who actually had the guts to say "I'm coming to kick your butt and there's nothing you can do about it!"
Nonsensical KotOR II explanation for Revan's abscence non-withstanding.

Now, this Krayt character seems to be entirely derivative of Palpatine. Usurp the galactic government and exterminate all Jedi everywhere for the sake of order and peace?
Gee, where have we heard THAT before?

Because Revan wanted a strong and united galaxy the Ancient Sith Empire in the Unknown Regions and he himself went there after the defeat of Malak?

Let me emphasize my previous point:

How was Revan altruistic?
Revan was one of the few Sith Lords out there who actually had the guts to say "I'm coming to kick your butt and there's nothing you can do about it!"
Nonsensical KotOR II explanation for Revan's abscence non-withstanding.

Half-assed explanation from a half-assed game (yes I know it was Lucasart's fault for forcing the game out early, but it's still half-assed).[/b]

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

A fact is a fact, no matter how you feel about it, or whether or not you hate it cos you wanted it to be more grandiose or something.

What is fact is that he left for the Unknown Regions, which even T3 confirms.

He also told Carth to make the Republic strong.

Even if you choose not to believe Kreia, it remains that he sought out the Sith in the Unknown Regions.

[Cao Cao]

A fact is a fact, no matter how you feel about it, or whether or not you hate it cos you wanted it to be more grandiose or something.

What is fact is that he left for the Unknown Regions, which even T3 confirms.

He also told Carth to make the Republic strong.

Even if you choose not to believe Kreia, it remains that he sought out the Sith in the Unknown Regions.

Such is the nature of an RPG like KotOR that there are too many variables to accept that as canon.
For instance, my Revan is a woman and she killed Carth.
Now, Revan may have left for the Unknown Regions but that doesn't mean anything about altruism.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Such is the nature of an RPG like KotOR that there are too many variables to accept that as canon.
For instance, my Revan is a woman and she killed Carth.
Now, Revan may have left for the Unknown Regions but that doesn't mean anything about altruism.

No, Revan has already be declared a man in the NEC. They have also declared him as redeemed and that he left to find the True Sith in the Unknown Regions.

KOTOR 2 is still a little murky, but they mention the Jedi Exile as having brought salvation to the Jedi.

Other than that, NEC has declared the above canon.

[Spartan]

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

No, Revan has already be declared a man in the NEC.

About that...would it have killed them to make Revan female. I mean, KOTOR is mostly played by guys; but must every Sith bad-ass be a man?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Well, there are some in favour of the Jedi Exile to be set as a woman, though Dan Wallace said he didn't have time to add a lot of stuff on KOTOR 2 to the books.

As for most Sith being a man, well, blame the authors.

[Cao Cao]

Such is the nature of an RPG like KotOR that there are too many variables to accept that as canon.
For instance, my Revan is a woman and she killed Carth.
Now, Revan may have left for the Unknown Regions but that doesn't mean anything about altruism.

No, Revan has already be declared a man in the NEC. They have also declared him as redeemed and that he left to find the True Sith in the Unknown Regions.

KOTOR 2 is still a little murky, but they mention the Jedi Exile as having brought salvation to the Jedi.

Other than that, NEC has declared the above canon.

What's this "NEC" and why should I care?
If I want Revan to be a woman, and if I want her to be evil, that's my decision. Such is the way of games. No idiot's going to come up and tell me what happened. To quote the oft maligned Final Fantasy X: "This is my story and I'll end it how I want to."
By the way, the player's right to determine their own outcome is fully supported by KotOR II and it's options to fill in the backstory of KotOR yourself.

Regardless, if your point is that a redeemed Jedi Revan buggered off to fight the "True Sith" then that has nothing to do with being an "altruistic Sith Lord".

Edit: This thread appears to be hijacked, I apologise. Just something I feel strongly over.

[Ghost Rider]

Such is the nature of an RPG like KotOR that there are too many variables to accept that as canon.
For instance, my Revan is a woman and she killed Carth.
Now, Revan may have left for the Unknown Regions but that doesn't mean anything about altruism.

No, Revan has already be declared a man in the NEC. They have also declared him as redeemed and that he left to find the True Sith in the Unknown Regions.

KOTOR 2 is still a little murky, but they mention the Jedi Exile as having brought salvation to the Jedi.

Other than that, NEC has declared the above canon.

What's this "NEC" and why should I care?
If I want Revan to be a woman, and if I want her to be evil, that's my decision. Such is the way of games. No idiot's going to come up and tell me what happened. To quote the oft maligned Final Fantasy X: "This is my story and I'll end it how I want to."
By the way, the player's right to determine their own outcome is fully supported by KotOR II and it's options to fill in the backstory of KotOR yourself.

Regardless, if your point is that a redeemed Jedi Revan buggered off to fight the "True Sith" then that has nothing to do with being an "altruistic Sith Lord".

Edit: This thread appears to be hijacked, I apologise. Just something I feel strongly over.

Given that the offical word is that Darth Revan was a man...your game is inconsequential when discussing what is and isn't the universe of SW.

That is what Fingolfin was referring to. It is your onus to demonstrate that he is wrong.

[Cao Cao]

Given that the offical word is that Darth Revan was a man...your game is inconsequential when discussing what is and isn't the universe of SW.

That is what Fingolfin was referring to. It is your onus to demonstrate that he is wrong.

I don't need to show that it is wrong, because it's just my opinion that it's very bad form to step on player's toes by telling them what a character that each of us has as different in our own minds is.
So no, personally I don't accept any official word on that.

The only part I have to disprove (as is my understanding, the rest is opinion as I said) is the assertion that Revan was an altruistic Sith Lord. Since it's "official" that Revan was redeemed then that means Revan was no longer a Sith Lord at the point of going off to fight this extra evil Sith. It's like calling Vader an altruistic Sith Lord for what he did in RotJ.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

This entire discussion is moot if you choose to disregard the New Essential Chronology. It essentially contains a synopsis of almost everything that happened in the Star War universe, excepting the new books and KOTOR 2 or any game released after the book's release.

So then, either you accept that book, or we quit this discussion about Revan.

[Cao Cao]

This entire discussion is moot if you choose to disregard the New Essential Chronology. It essentially contains a synopsis of almost everything that happened in the Star War universe, excepting the new books.

So then, either you accept that book, or we quit this discussion about Revan.

I don't have to accept Revan's gender and role in history in that book to disprove the notion that Revan was an altruistic Sith Lord, since I'm talking about Revan the Sith Lord before the events of KotOR and according to you Revan is blatantly not a Sith Lord at the time of this expedition to fight the "True Sith".

Edit: Can I see a quote of Revan's entry in that book please?

[Ghost Rider]

This entire discussion is moot if you choose to disregard the New Essential Chronology. It essentially contains a synopsis of almost everything that happened in the Star War universe, excepting the new books.

So then, either you accept that book, or we quit this discussion about Revan.

I don't have to accept Revan's gender and role in history in that book to disprove the notion that Revan was an altruistic Sith Lord, since I'm talking about Revan the Sith Lord before the events of KotOR and according to you Revan is blatantly not a Sith Lord at the time of this expedition to fight the "True Sith".

Edit: Can I see a quote of Revan's entry in that book please?

You do understand that your opinion that Revan was altruistic is subjective, right? You actually want to head down this particular slope?

I mean demonstrate his actions objectively or shut the fuck up.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

There's a line in the book that when "Revan and his..."

The Star Forge was also destroyed, and the Jedi Exile, was described a hero. Therefore, we draw a few conclusions:

1. Revan is male, and reinforced by canon else where.
2. The Jedi Exile followed Revan into the Unknown Regions, and his followers were the lost Jedi that revived the Jedi Order after being practically wiped out.

That is unless you are going to claim a hero in the Sith sense, but I would think that history would have been different if the Exile survived. Plus, I believe there are other sources which put Revan as male. Forgot which one. Probably one of the guide books by DK.

[Cao Cao]

You do understand that your opinion that Revan was altruistic is subjective, right? You actually want to head down this particular slope?

I mean demonstrate his actions objectively or shut the fuck up.

What? I'm arguing that Revan isn't altruistic.
But, assuming that's a typo my only point of contention is that Revan is not a Sith Lord in the scenario apparently put forth as official by the NEC. Altruistic or not.

There's a line in the book that when "Revan and his..."

The Star Forge was also destroyed, and the Jedi Exile, was described a hero. Therefore, we draw a few conclusions:

1. Revan is male, and reinforced by canon else where.
2. The Jedi Exile followed Revan into the Unknown Regions, and his followers were the lost Jedi that revived the Jedi Order after being practically wiped out.

That is unless you are going to claim a hero in the Sith sense, but I would think that history would have been different if the Exile survived. Plus, I believe there are other sources which put Revan as male. Forgot which one. Probably one of the guide books by DK.

I should point out that it is proper English to use "he" and "his" when referring to someone who's gender is unknown.
So if that's all the entry says, then it's not concrete evidence either way. I know of no canon material that outright says Revan is a man.
Regardless though, I'm still miffed that they went into that detail and took the (predictable) route of "the good guys win!". But that's my own preference.

[Darth Fanboy]

I know this is from wikipedia. But this site links the source regarding Revan's canonical gender.

NB: In the game, Revan may be either male or female. Due to incomplete software development, several points in the game indicate that Revan is male, which is the canonically stated preference.[1] The player's choice of a male or female Revan will not change the game's endings or Revan's allies (beyond determining which characters the player character can fall in love with), but this article will follow Star Wars Expanded Universe canon and address Revan as male.

1. Daniel Wallace (author of Star Wars: The New Essential Chronology) on LFL's official stance with KotOR. TheForce.net. Retrieved on January 14, 2006.

For all intents and purposes, Revan is male.

[Ghost Rider]

You do understand that your opinion that Revan was altruistic is subjective, right? You actually want to head down this particular slope?

I mean demonstrate his actions objectively or shut the fuck up.

What? I'm arguing that Revan isn't altruistic.
But, assuming that's a typo my only point of contention is that Revan is not a Sith Lord in the scenario apparently put forth as official by the NEC. Altruistic or not.

And I apologize as such.

There's a line in the book that when "Revan and his..."

The Star Forge was also destroyed, and the Jedi Exile, was described a hero. Therefore, we draw a few conclusions:

1. Revan is male, and reinforced by canon else where.
2. The Jedi Exile followed Revan into the Unknown Regions, and his followers were the lost Jedi that revived the Jedi Order after being practically wiped out.

That is unless you are going to claim a hero in the Sith sense, but I would think that history would have been different if the Exile survived. Plus, I believe there are other sources which put Revan as male. Forgot which one. Probably one of the guide books by DK.

I should point out that it is proper English to use "he" and "his" when referring to someone who's gender is unknown.
So if that's all the entry says, then it's not concrete evidence either way. I know of no canon material that outright says Revan is a man.
Regardless though, I'm still miffed that they went into that detail and took the (predictable) route of "the good guys win!". But that's my own preference.[/quote]

While you, I and hundreds of other went the dark sider, they decided they wanted to make some events canon and because of the unique nature...we get what we get.

Still sucks when all things considered.

[Noble Ire]

Regardless though, I'm still miffed that they went into that detail and took the (predictable) route of "the good guys win!". But that's my own preference.

While you, I and hundreds of other went the dark sider, they decided they wanted to make some events canon and because of the unique nature...we get what we get.

Still sucks when all things considered.

Considering the fact that the Republic had to have survived, though, the Sith Empire had to have fallen during the War of the Star Forge, and were Revan to go Dark Side, they wouldn't have (or you're forced to use the retarded explanation KOTORII gives you if you choose to say that Revan went dark in the last game). It may be unoriginal, but it makes sense, all things considered. However, I would have prefered that they made him female, but I am pretty sure that the NEG did state that Revan was a man beyond vague references...

Upon review, I was wrong. That single quote is the only one in the books that even suggests gender. The authors seems to steer away from it otherwise.

[Cao Cao]

Most authors remain respectful of Bioware, KotOR's original developers' wishes to not step on the toes of players who each made different decisions and try to be as vague as possible with references to Revan as such.
But I guess it doesn't stop some, also while the Republic must survive in the future, that's 4000 years away.. and the Republic as of TPM is a little over 1000 years old.

[Noble Ire]

Most authors remain respectful of Bioware, KotOR's original developers' wishes to not step on the toes of players who each made different decisions and try to be as vague as possible with references to Revan as such.
But I guess it doesn't stop some, also while the Republic must survive in the future, that's 4000 years away.. and the Republic as of TPM is a little over 1000 years old.

Dark or light ending, the Sith empire collapses and the Republic still exists less than a decade later, in KOTORII. That, at least, is definate.

[Cao Cao]

Most authors remain respectful of Bioware, KotOR's original developers' wishes to not step on the toes of players who each made different decisions and try to be as vague as possible with references to Revan as such.
But I guess it doesn't stop some, also while the Republic must survive in the future, that's 4000 years away.. and the Republic as of TPM is a little over 1000 years old.

Dark or light ending, the Sith empire collapses and the Republic still exists less than a decade later, in KOTORII. That, at least, is definate.

True. I rather disliked that, but understood the realities of trying to make a game on time while fitting it into 2 different endings from the last game.
Though as I understand it, the Republic was in a very weakened state and the Jedi exterminated in both scenarios.

Perhaps this thread should be split? We've wandered far off from Legacy at this point.