The damned cell-phone argument again

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The damned cell-phone argument again

Post by Darth Wong »

This never seems to get old for stupid people:
Name: Paul
Subject: Cell-phones and Star Trek

In your myths section you mention that "Star Trek communicators have nothing to do with cell-phones". This isn't strictly true. The chief engineer--Marty Cooper--at Motorola who invented the first massive, brick cellphone says he was inspired by the Star Trek communicator.

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My response:
I wrote:He's lying to get a media sound-bite. He was inspired by the walkie-talkie, which is in fact the technological parent of cell-phones. The technology of cell-phones is in no way, shape, or form influenced by Star Trek communicators.
His response:
Paul wrote:Can you cite an earlier article where he points to the walkie-talkie as his inspiration?
I love the way he won't accept anything but a quote, as if the fact of technological lineage from handheld radio communications devices to cell-phones isn't obvious.
I wrote:Do you understand how things are designed?
His response:
Paul wrote:No need to be condescending. I am addressing your claim that Cooper is a liar. I can't see what personal benefit he would gain by doing so. The only people that would make any difference to would be Trekkies and, really, who cares?

Anyway, if you can cite something contradicting his claims, cool, if not, no worries, I'm not that invested in the topic. I just thought it was an interesting bit of trivia.
And my response:
I wrote:
Paul wrote:No need to be condescending. I am addressing your claim that Cooper is a liar. I can't see what personal benefit he would gain by doing so. The only people that would make any difference to would be Trekkies and, really, who cares?
Actually, I do need to be condescending, because no one who actually knew what he was talking about would seriously doubt that the cellular phone's most important feature is its underlying technology, not the flip panel (which is the only real Star Trek-inspired feature of cell-phones, and isn't even present on most of them).
Anyway, if you can cite something contradicting his claims, cool, if not, no worries, I'm not that invested in the topic. I just thought it was an interesting bit of trivia.
You honestly need me to provide a source to contradict the ridiculous notion that cell-phone technology owes more to Star Trek than to previous wireless communication technologies? He didn't mean it the way you're interpreting it unless he's an idiot.
It's always amazing to me how people like this idiot reject any form of evidence other than a quote from someone they consider authoritative. As if the idea of handheld radio communications devices was invented by Star Trek, never mind the fact that it predated the fucking show.
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Post by Bounty »

Odd. I was told that the first cellphone was an outgrowth of the carphone, not the walkie-talkie. A trivial difference, I know, since carphones were based on the same tech.

I can see where this idea comes from, though. Some Googling brings up this paraphrased quote:
Dr. Martin Cooper found himself tripping over his phone cord when he saw Star Trek appear on the TV playing in the background. Cooper watched with envy as Captain Kirk calmly conversed while walking across an alien landscape.

“Suddenly there was Captain Kirk talking on his communicator,” remembers Cooper. “Talking! With no wires!”

Cooper, who was General Manager of Systems at Motorola, thought to himself, we need to communicate the way they do on Star Trek. “To the rest of the world it was a fantasy. To me it was an objective." It was the moment the cellular phone was born.
If what he's saying is true, seeing the Trek communicator was not a tehcnological inspiration (that is, he didn't sit down and say, "let's build a Trek communicator") but just a brief moment where he decided to work on what would have been a logical outgrowth of mobile communications anyway.
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Post by Bounty »

EDIT: and before anyone decided to grill my ass, I'm not saying the cellphone was inspired by Trek, just that Cooper told the anecdote.
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Post by Darth Wong »

It's still quite obviously an overdramatized account. There's no way that a Star Trek episode was that man's first exposure to wireless communications. The way it's written, it's portrayed as a Eureka moment, when wireless communications predate colour television.
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Post by King Kong »

It's easier for the layperson to believe that an invention was inspired by something they're familiar with, like a television show element, rather than as an extrapolation of existing technology, which they're unfamiliar with. It comforts them to think that they could have developed the cell phone, perhaps if they'd only watched a little more Star Trek and had a flash of insight.
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Post by LongVin »

Couldn't we say that Gene Roddenbery took his idea for the Communicator from that of Walkie Talkies which have been around since the 40s and just made them smaller to show how "High tech" Walkie Talkies are in the future?
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Post by Darth Wong »

LongVin wrote:Couldn't we say that Gene Roddenbery took his idea for the Communicator from that of Walkie Talkies which have been around since the 40s and just made them smaller to show how "High tech" Walkie Talkies are in the future?
That's what a rational person would say, yes. But a Star Trek fanboy would say that the idea of miniaturizing the already-existing concept of walkie-talkies would never have occurred to anyone if not for Star Trek.
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Post by Lord Pounder »

Wasn't that first brick phone, as seen bellow, more akin to a military type walkie talkie?



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Post by Isolder74 »

Well technically its Handie Talkie

The Walkie talkie was back pack mounted radio.

Anyway, the inovation of the cell Phone wasn't the radio part it was the cell part. the main reason we can miniturize these devises in the increase in the number of cell towers making it not required to transmit as far of with as much power thus making batteries last longer.

The older phones had to power much larger transmitters, partly due to the need to use bulky transistors, to reach the farther apart tower to get a signal.

The military Handie Talkie was very short ranged but it was also built with vacuum tubes orginally further limiting the practicality of it.

The 'innovation' of Star Trek might be the idea of a pocket sized communication device. The flip top communicaator has got to be more like the 'walkie talkie' than any way of seeing the cell phone.

Anyway toy companies were putting out toy communicators that looked like the tv props at the time.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Interestingly enough, as long as we're talking cell-phones and Star Trek communicators, the Star Trek communicator is a direct point-to-point device, not requiring a network in place. It can function on planets with no advanced technology at all, communicating directly with orbiting spaceships. So the key technological innovation behind the cell-phone obviously has nothing at all to do with Trek. The only "innovation" one might attribute to Star Trek is "wouldn't it be handy if these things were smaller", which is not exactly an innovation.
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Post by Elheru Aran »

On a slightly related note, does anybody know if Paramount or a cell-phone company has made a licensed replica of a TOS communicator that can function as an actual phone? I know they've made replicas, just not functional ones...
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Post by Darth Wong »

Elheru Aran wrote:On a slightly related note, does anybody know if Paramount or a cell-phone company has made a licensed replica of a TOS communicator that can function as an actual phone? I know they've made replicas, just not functional ones...
You couldn't make an exact replica that functions like a real phone because the TOS communicators didn't have the necessary number keypad.
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Post by Isolder74 »

Darth Wong wrote:
Elheru Aran wrote:On a slightly related note, does anybody know if Paramount or a cell-phone company has made a licensed replica of a TOS communicator that can function as an actual phone? I know they've made replicas, just not functional ones...
You couldn't make an exact replica that functions like a real phone because the TOS communicators didn't have the necessary number keypad.
Voice activated perhaps or may with a flip open compartment to dial?
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Post by Elheru Aran »

Isolder74 wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Elheru Aran wrote:On a slightly related note, does anybody know if Paramount or a cell-phone company has made a licensed replica of a TOS communicator that can function as an actual phone? I know they've made replicas, just not functional ones...
You couldn't make an exact replica that functions like a real phone because the TOS communicators didn't have the necessary number keypad.
Voice activated perhaps or may with a flip open compartment to dial?
That's what I was thinking. Not voice-activated, you'd need too much software, but a concealed keyboard would work. I doubt you'd be getting such a thing for actual usage anyway, just the whole 'Hey cool' factor :wink:
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Post by Darth Servo »

Darth Wong wrote:
LongVin wrote:Couldn't we say that Gene Roddenbery took his idea for the Communicator from that of Walkie Talkies which have been around since the 40s and just made them smaller to show how "High tech" Walkie Talkies are in the future?
That's what a rational person would say, yes. But a Star Trek fanboy would say that the idea of miniaturizing the already-existing concept of walkie-talkies would never have occurred to anyone if not for Star Trek.
I thought the trekkie fanboy would ignore the fact that these things existed pre-TOS and just keep spouting his BS.
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Post by ANGELUS »

well, this is not related to cell phones, but it is a similar situation: About a month ago I watched a TV special about the influence of Star Trek (or some crap like that, I don't remember the name of the show) hosted by William Shatner. In this show they actually claim (and get ready for this) that the iPod was designed because of Star Trek. Apparently one of the persons that were part of the team that designed the iPod said that he inspired on an episode of TNG where Data is hearing music played by the computer (not a small handheld computer, but the ship's computer, so you realize how stupid that sounds). This guy claims that the fact that he saw that the Enterprise's computer could store music is what led to the invention of the iPod. I mean come on! it's not like there were no walkmans by that time! iPod was an evolution of that, not something inspired by Star Trek.
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Post by Bounty »

Darth Wong wrote:
Elheru Aran wrote:On a slightly related note, does anybody know if Paramount or a cell-phone company has made a licensed replica of a TOS communicator that can function as an actual phone? I know they've made replicas, just not functional ones...
You couldn't make an exact replica that functions like a real phone because the TOS communicators didn't have the necessary number keypad.
There are cellphones on the market thazt only have basic accept/deny call and volume controls on the shell with a fold-out keypad. I don't see why it wouldn't work - the communicators are certainly bulky enough to hold the hardware.
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Post by Darth Servo »

ANGELUS wrote:well, this is not related to cell phones, but it is a similar situation: About a month ago I watched a TV special about the influence of Star Trek (or some crap like that, I don't remember the name of the show) hosted by William Shatner. In this show they actually claim (and get ready for this) that the iPod was designed because of Star Trek. Apparently one of the persons that were part of the team that designed the iPod said that he inspired on an episode of TNG where Data is hearing music played by the computer (not a small handheld computer, but the ship's computer, so you realize how stupid that sounds). This guy claims that the fact that he saw that the Enterprise's computer could store music is what led to the invention of the iPod. I mean come on! it's not like there were no walkmans by that time! iPod was an evolution of that, not something inspired by Star Trek.
Thats nothing. One Trek documentary I saw seemed to be crediting ST for just about every electronics related invention of the last 40 years, including laptops, palm pilots, CDs, desktop computers...
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Post by ANGELUS »

Darth Servo wrote:Thats nothing. One Trek documentary I saw seemed to be crediting ST for just about every electronics related invention of the last 40 years, including laptops, palm pilots, CDs, desktop computers...
Ha ha, I would love to hear them claim that Palms were created based on tricorders and that Bluetooth headsets were created based on comm badges
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Post by Batman »

Why would a TOS cellphone neccessarily need a keypad? It's been a while but regular phones used to not have keypads, either. There's a reason the process is called 'dialing', you know. And there justs happens to be this nice circular protusion on the face of the communicator's body...
Sure, it would be awkward as hell but who buys something 4 times the size of a modern cellphone for the utility anyway?
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Post by Darth Wong »

ANGELUS wrote:
Darth Servo wrote:Thats nothing. One Trek documentary I saw seemed to be crediting ST for just about every electronics related invention of the last 40 years, including laptops, palm pilots, CDs, desktop computers...
Ha ha, I would love to hear them claim that Palms were created based on tricorders and that Bluetooth headsets were created based on comm badges
The problem is that it's easy to get soundbites for a documentary like this, because people like to see themselves onscreen. So you go to people and you say "Can you think of any influence that Star Trek might have had on anything you've done? If the answer is yes, we'd like to interview you for a documentary." The root problem is Trek fandom's tendency towards self-aggrandizement. After taking credit for the civil-rights movement, this ridiculous movement has just kept on rolling.
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Post by RThurmont »

The World's First Cellphone

As the above photograph should indicate, AT&T was testing radiotelephony as early as the mid 1920s. Radiotelephone service was introduced soon thereafter, and starting in the 1950s, it was not uncommon for the senior executives of major corporations, as well as other people of importance, to have radiotelephone setups in their care. With these systems, you'd pick up the handset and would be automatically connected to an operator, who would then route your call over the phone network to whomever. You could also accept incoming calls. The modern cellphone networks were merely a logical refinement of this technology.

That said, the design of the flip-phone type cellphones popularized by Motorola in the late 1990s could well have been influenced by the ST communicator (specifically, the flipout action by which you extend the phone when answering it), as product designers often get inspiration for various features from unusual sources. Considering that many consumers prefer "candy-bar" phones to flip-phones, this accomplishment is nothing for ST to be that proud of, neccessarily.

That said, I've always liked Captain Kirk's TabletPC (being an avid user of that technology). However, its also worth noting that Star Wars featured what may have been the first PDA-a handheld device being used by an Imperial officer in TESB. Note that I do not consider the Tricorder to be remotely akin to a PDA, as the Tricorder was basically a handheld scanning/sensing device used for scientific and medical purposes, as opposed to a general purpose computing device used for e-mail, organizing, word processing, websurfing, et cetera. (One also can't help but wonder if the Imperial officer doodling on his PDA in ESB was actually posting to his Myspace blog.)
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Post by PayBack »

ANGELUS wrote:well, this is not related to cell phones, but it is a similar situation: About a month ago I watched a TV special about the influence of Star Trek (or some crap like that, I don't remember the name of the show) hosted by William Shatner. In this show they actually claim (and get ready for this) that the iPod was designed because of Star Trek. Apparently one of the persons that were part of the team that designed the iPod said that he inspired on an episode of TNG where Data is hearing music played by the computer (not a small handheld computer, but the ship's computer, so you realize how stupid that sounds). This guy claims that the fact that he saw that the Enterprise's computer could store music is what led to the invention of the iPod. I mean come on! it's not like there were no walkmans by that time! iPod was an evolution of that, not something inspired by Star Trek.
Holy shit he's amazing.. it's just a shame my computer at home was holding and playing music for about a decade before the iPod came out. And not only were there already walkmen before the iPod, there were already MP3 players. Not to quick on the uptake is he?
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Post by Darth Wong »

The fact that the iPod developer even considers it a genuine "invention" speaks volumes about his dishonesty. That's like saying that the Honda Civic was an "invention", instead of just another car. The only unusual thing about the iPod was an organized structure for getting music into users' hands.
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Post by Lord Poe »

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Batman had a communicator before Star Trek.

And the flip part of Kirk's communicator is supposed to be the "antenna, to call the geosync satellite - Enterprise - with. Which makes my cell phone more advanced. The only thing I can't do with my cell phone that Kirk could with his communicator is set up a sonic pulse that would cause a rock slide.
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