Scimitar Question

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-12-16 06:05pm

I have heard that Schinzon has planned his coup of the Romulans for several months. So, the Scimitar was built in several months time... Pretty damned nice build rate for a rogue element of the Romulan empire. Big ship they built to. That thing is almost as large as an ISD.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-12-16 06:09pm

He wasn't planning the coup for several months. It has been an active rebellion for several months. That being said, the research necessary for such a ship is remarkeable. It is vastly more advanced than any Romulan warship of the time. That all of this research was likely done in secret, or largely in secret, only makes this more impressive.

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2002-12-16 07:23pm

Of course it may all have just been a romulan black ops project that the Rommies were forcing the Remmies to build and the rmmies took over it during the coup

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2002-12-16 07:25pm

I don't think so. If it were a Romulan black ops project, it would've been worked on on romulus or some other isolated planet, not on Remus where there are numerous Reman slaves who can riot and steal the project.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2002-12-16 08:23pm

You assume that the Romulans are smart, Shinova.

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2002-12-16 08:37pm

Master of Ossus wrote:He wasn't planning the coup for several months. It has been an active rebellion for several months. That being said, the research necessary for such a ship is remarkable. It is vastly more advanced than any Romulan warship of the time. That all of this research was likely done in secret, or largely in secret, only makes this more impressive.

Yeah.

I've guessed that Shinzon might've actually had an alliance
of sorts running with the Dominion until the RSE joined the
war effort. It would certainly help the Remans to differentiate
themselves from even the removed RSE prior to their
entry into the war.

That's purely speculative, but we do at least know that
Shinzon fought a dozen engagements in the war itself.
In that time, he seemed to pick up some Dominion
technology (which, evidently, isn't very difficult to reverse-engineer
given the Alliances' quick imperviousness to polaron beams
and the Breen E weapon), something that is very much
reflected in the shape and color of his flagship.
Even his disruptors are bluish, like Dominion weapons.

I dunno that such explains why his ship is so bloody advanced,
though. Even D'Deridex Warbirds should've been able
to take the strongest Dominion warship with 2-1 odds. What
Shinzon created greatly surpasses that.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2002-12-16 08:41pm

SPOOFE wrote:You assume that the Romulans are smart, Shinova.

Is there a problem with that?

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-12-16 08:57pm

Do we know how long the Dominion War has been over in ST:N, because seeing how hated he was, even more than the romulans, I don't think they'd give him such a position with out 27 photon torp Launchers pointed at their head and seemingly willing to point them at their enemies.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2002-12-16 09:50pm

Is there a problem with that?

Yup.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-16 10:03pm

Why is it necessary that the Scimitar should be built in the exact same time period as when Shinzon is planning his coup?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-12-16 10:04pm

Vympel wrote:Why is it necessary that the Scimitar should be built in the exact same time period as when Shinzon is planning his coup?

Because the Scimitar was integral in his plot. You usually do not build something then decide later, hey this is perfect for what I need. You usually make your plans and then build what you need.

Currald · Post by **Currald** » 2002-12-17 03:17am

Pah! Why, then, do I have surface-to-air missiles installed on the roof of my car?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-17 12:49pm

Alyeska wrote:
Vympel wrote:Why is it necessary that the Scimitar should be built in the exact same time period as when Shinzon is planning his coup?
Because the Scimitar was integral in his plot. You usually do not build something then decide later, hey this is perfect for what I need. You usually make your plans and then build what you need.

Are you seriously suggesting that the Scimitar had no conceivable application besides Shinzon's plan? There was no entity anywhere in the entire Romulan Empire who could have seen the potential usefulness of a dreadnaught with a planet-killer superweapon? For all we know, this thing was being researched for decades.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-12-17 05:44pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
Vympel wrote:Why is it necessary that the Scimitar should be built in the exact same time period as when Shinzon is planning his coup?
Because the Scimitar was integral in his plot. You usually do not build something then decide later, hey this is perfect for what I need. You usually make your plans and then build what you need.
Are you seriously suggesting that the Scimitar had no conceivable application besides Shinzon's plan? There was no entity anywhere in the entire Romulan Empire who could have seen the potential usefulness of a dreadnaught with a planet-killer superweapon? For all we know, this thing was being researched for decades.

It has other uses no doubt. I am sure the Romulans would have loved it as their own Flagship just to piss off the Klingons (Negh'Var) and the Federation (Sovereign) by saying they have the new badass ship in town. But its centeral role in Schinzon's plot seems to indicate much of its creation was dictated by him. Its probable the design took a while to plan out, but the fact that he had it and the Romulan command didn't seem to think it was a hyjacked design of their own indicates the ship was built in relative secrecy from most forms of the Romulan government.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-12-17 05:50pm

I disagree. My theory is that the Scimitar is a romulan ship designed to match the Sovie and Negh, but Shizon got the plans too it and had it customized and built before the Empire did. Of course, that's a hell of alot of modification to incorperate a PKer.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-12-17 06:04pm

I think that it would be strange for the Romulan Senate not to be concerned that Skippy had a PK weapon, seeing as how he was in active rebellion against them. Had the Romulan Senate known that he had such a weapon, they should have brought it up when discussing whether or not to negotiate with the Rebels. That would clearly be the deciding factor, in such a debate. Instead we hear them talking about subtleties like how the Dilithium mines on Remus haven't met their quota. That would be a VERY strange concern, if you were also worried that he was going to wipe out your planet. That being said, it's possible it was created by the Romulan military, because Skippy had them under his control. If this were the case, it would indicate that the Romulan military has a tremendous level of freedom from the Romulan Senate, for the Senate not even to know of their research into Thalaron radiation. I think it most likely that the Scimitar was constructed by the Romulan military, but handed over to Skippy as he began his rebellion. The only other possibility is that the Remans were somehow able to do all of that research and construction by themselves. Researching how to turn an obscure physical particle into some sort of weapon would take a considerable amount of time, particularly for slaves, even if they could get the construction finished quickly. I thus, believe that it was built by the Romulan military, and that that solution is the most likely one to the problem of where the ship came from.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2002-12-17 08:15pm

Ender wrote:I disagree. My theory is that the Scimitar is a romulan ship designed to match the Sovie and Negh, but Shizon got the plans too it and had it customized and built before the Empire did. Of course, that's a hell of alot of modification to incorperate a PKer.

that ship had a hell of a lot more firepower than the aformentioned soverign class. i finally saw the movie today and the Scimitar had over fifty disrupters and 2 dozen torpedo launchers. mantained an impressive fie rate too. another thing i noted was that the enterprise was able to fire multiple sustained phaser beams at once...first time i now of a feddie ship doing so.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-12-17 08:49pm

If Shizon didn't want Picard alive and well, the E-E would have quickly been whipped out.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-18 12:18am

That's the thing; even without the uber-microwave, the Scimitar is a true dreadnaught, able to take on multiple enemy capital warships with ease. I still can't see why anyone would think the Romulans could not possibly dream of a use for such a vessel without Shinzon's plan.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-12-18 12:20am

Darth Wong wrote:That's the thing; even without the uber-microwave, the Scimitar is a true dreadnaught, able to take on multiple enemy capital warships with ease. I still can't see why anyone would think the Romulans could not possibly dream of a use for such a vessel without Shinzon's plan.

If anything, the Remens took the Dominion idea (the 1.2km long ship) and expanded upon it significantly.

BTW Mike, Dreadnaught is not a class of ship. It was the start of a new era of Earth built Battleships, but eventually there were more powerful battleships built.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2002-12-18 12:34am

Didn't Data say in the movie though that Shinzon was a commander for the RSE (part of the Reman Cannon Fodder troops I guess) and won 12 engagements? That plus Shinzon said the Scimitar was assembled at a secret base, probably he has had contacts from within the Romulan military for some time and the Reman base where it was built was overlooked. That would explain how they got the radiation technology too, if they were working secretly with military scientists from the RSE.

The Scimitar could have been a lot better had they not decided to design the ship around the thalaron radiation generator. The secondary shields are pretty smart for a ST military power though.