Humanitys Purpose (Atheist POV)

[l33telboi]

This is another one of those things I thought way back in the day when i used to discuss religion and philosophy on other boards. I'm asking it again since i doubt the question could ever be answered in a satisfactory way (to me at least).

What's the purpose of humanity from an atheistic point of view? Or rather, what should it be, and why?

I find that if i knew this then a lot of other 'big' questions would be answered. From questions like how should you live your life to simple 'what would be the right thing to do in this situation' kind of thing.

I find that the more i think about it, the more it all boils down to 'everything is meaningless and there is no right and wrong'. Esentially the worth of the entire human race is about as much as a grain of sand.

So what are your thoughts on this? Oh and when you give the answer to the purpose of humankind remember to include the why. Alot of people simply answer "to improve ourselves" but without a why i find the answer kinda meh.

[Nephtys]

We're here to propagate our species. Biologically speaking.

As for a 'purpose'? Not everything needs a real purpose. We make our own purpose. Do you think there's a philisophical reason we need to say.. build cars? Or explore space?

"There is no right or wrong! Everything is Meaningless!" is a load of crock spread by people who cannot see beyond their own myopic world views and beliefs. Because no diety happens to like our race doesn't mean it's useless. We exist for the purpose of existing. We exist to make sure the ride is as great as it's going to get.

We exist to be as good as we can be, for our own species's sake. That's good enough for me.

[dworkin]

I for one toil endlessly for our alien overlords.

All atheist means is no gods. You can have a purpose based on whatever you believe and so longs as gods don't come into it, bam it's an atheistic purpose to life.

See above for a ather silly example though I'm sure the average Von Danniken would disagree.

[l33telboi]

All atheist means is no gods. You can have a purpose based on whatever you believe and so longs as gods don't come into it, bam it's an atheistic purpose to life.

Well it's basically this purpose I was hoping to hear from people, and the reason why the think the way they think. I already know what atheism means.

[Larz]

To live, do stuff, and die...

It would be nice if humanity worked towards bettering itself and living in harmony with itself and nature and all that good stuff... but, well, we all see how well that's coming along. Why should we do all this good stuff? Because it's productive and promotes survival.

As for these 'big' questions, that really should be judged by the individual and their ideals, moral inclinations, so on and so forth. Shouldn't need a big "Oh this is my species non-religous centered purpose, best to live accordlingly."

[mr friendly guy]

What's the purpose of humanity from an atheistic point of view? Or rather, what should it be, and why?

That question is based on the premise that there must be a purpose. Please demonstrate this premise. I mean, why do you need a purpose to be able to live a productive life doing what you enjoy.

I find that if i knew this then a lot of other 'big' questions would be answered. From questions like how should you live your life to simple 'what would be the right thing to do in this situation' kind of thing.

Your statement boils down to this

1) Purpose in life => 2) methodology in how you live your life and 3) morality

Please explain how what steps you take to get from 1) to 2) and 3) because I can't see it. And yes I realise lots of people use this "reasoning" but without explanation.

If someone hypothetically has no purpose, it doesn't follow that they will be immoral or moral either, since purpose is INDEPENDENT from morality.

I find that the more i think about it, the more it all boils down to 'everything is meaningless and there is no right and wrong'.

I don't get how meaningless (in regards to how to live your life) leads to meaningless in regards to morality. Please explain how you make that determination. I mean a person who is clinically depressed will likely see life as meaningless, but will not jump to the conclusion that there is no right or wrong and often they don't go out and commit immoral acts.

Esentially the worth of the entire human race is about as much as a grain of sand.

I think therefore I am.

And before you ask me to explain what I mean by that it might help if you thought about what I mean by that statement in regards to a person's intrinsic worth.

[l33telboi]

What's the purpose of humanity from an atheistic point of view? Or rather, what should it be, and why?

That question is based on the premise that there must be a purpose. Please demonstrate this premise. I mean, why do you need a purpose to be able to live a productive life doing what you enjoy.

I never said there must be a purpose, it's just that there generally is a purpose to why people do stuff. If you're of the opinion that there shouldn't be a purpose, then that's ok.

I find that if i knew this then a lot of other 'big' questions would be answered. From questions like how should you live your life to simple 'what would be the right thing to do in this situation' kind of thing.

Your statement boils down to this

1) Purpose in life => 2) methodology in how you live your life and 3) morality

Please explain how what steps you take to get from 1) to 2) and 3) because I can't see it. And yes I realise lots of people use this "reasoning" but without explanation.

I just find it easier to maximise efficency when i know what goal i should be striving for. That's what the statement was supposed to say. I don't know where you got your theory or where morality ever entered into it.

If someone hypothetically has no purpose, it doesn't follow that they will be immoral or moral either, since purpose is INDEPENDENT from morality.

Morality? I really didn't ask anything about it. In my mind morality is just a word describing things that are considered right, some of these enforced by your instincts. This post never meant to have anything to do with morality.

I find that the more i think about it, the more it all boils down to 'everything is meaningless and there is no right and wrong'.

I don't get how meaningless (in regards to how to live your life) leads to meaningless in regards to morality. Please explain how you make that determination. I mean a person who is clinically depressed will likely see life as meaningless, but will not jump to the conclusion that there is no right or wrong and often they don't go out and commit immoral acts.

Again with the morality, i had to recheck my initial post to look if i at some point mentioned it, but sure enough, the word was never even written.

Esentially the worth of the entire human race is about as much as a grain of sand.

I think therefore I am.

And before you ask me to explain what I mean by that it might help if you thought about what I mean by that statement in regards to a person's intrinsic worth.

So the fact that you're intelligent and self-concious automatically makes you worth more then something else? This is actually something i've been thinking about myself, our ability to change our surroundings in a intelligent way could mean that we would be of more worth then less intelligent stuff. But one problem exists. Why would that trait make us worth more then something else, does it really matter that we posess this ability?

[LaCroix]

To exist.

Anything more you want to know?

[l33telboi]

To exist.

Anything more you want to know?

Apparently I'm the only one that thinks there should be something more.

[Lagmonster]

Your need for a why is, frankly, the whole problem. Purpose is something we determine for ourselves. The fact that you don't know what you want from your life is okay - you're obviously still young. Eventually you may (or may not, it's up to you) come to find meaning in your job, your hobbies, your causes, or your family.

[Rye]

This is another one of those things I thought way back in the day when i used to discuss religion and philosophy on other boards. I'm asking it again since i doubt the question could ever be answered in a satisfactory way (to me at least).

What's the purpose of humanity from an atheistic point of view? Or rather, what should it be, and why?

What is the purpose of cancer? To reproduce, consume and spread till it burns out. Same with humans. Pleasure and pain are just evolved means of doing that more effectively, which is where utilitarianism comes in.

What "should" it be? I think that begs the question that we have an alternative.

I find that the more i think about it, the more it all boils down to 'everything is meaningless and there is no right and wrong'. Esentially the worth of the entire human race is about as much as a grain of sand.

Well, yes and no. Worth is not something that exists independently of a mind to arbitrate it. You can't measure worth and purpose with an electron scanner, as they, well, I say. We give things worth and purpose, these things do not matter outside of us, but we're not outside of us, are we? We have no real reason to go against all intuition and experience if it is ultimately fruitless, so we go with what works, what we evolved to survive by, and generally have fun along the way.

[l33telboi]

Your need for a why is, frankly, the whole problem. Purpose is something we determine for ourselves. The fact that you don't know what you want from your life is okay - you're obviously still young. Eventually you may (or may not, it's up to you) come to find meaning in your job, your hobbies, your causes, or your family.

Actually i was talking in broader terms, not the purpose of individuals but the whole of humanity. Seeing as we are the only known critters with an intelligence high enough to shape things around us the way we want to.

I have no problem justifiying my own existence or finding purpose in my own life. The problem i have is that in my mind humanity as a whole should have a goal, something to strive to.

That's where my question comes in, what do you think that should be? Or should there be a goal at all?

[Larz]

The idea that there should be something more has a name... religon. It's a stark and cold truth that purpose and meaning are all up to one to decide, and when you can't handle such a pressure you follow the ideals of a big friendly pie in the sky that dictates to you what your purpose should be.

To view things in an athietic mindset, you just have to accept that there really is no greater purpose.

[l33telboi]

What "should" it be? I think that begs the question that we have an alternative.

As the only beigns with a intelligence high enough. Aren't we the only ones who are actually presented this alternative? To override nature and instinct and do what we think should be done? Thus, creating an artificial goal of kinds for ourselves, something to strive to.

Well, yes and no. Worth is not something that exists independently of a mind to arbitrate it. You can't measure worth and purpose with an electron scanner, as they, well, I say. We give things worth and purpose, these things do not matter outside of us, but we're not outside of us, are we? We have no real reason to go against all intuition and experience if it is ultimately fruitless, so we go with what works, what we evolved to survive by, and generally have fun along the way.

I guess this is true. Since there is no objective measure of worth, everything becomes relative. But then from an objective viewpoint (a viewpoint simply not attatched to anything), everything would be worthless and right and wrong can't exist.

[Rye]

To view things in an athietic mindset, you just have to accept that there really is no greater purpose.

I would dispute that. My friend Jenni believes "everything happens for a reason" and she identifies herself as "certainly atheistic." You can accept these things without gods. Might not be ultimately rational, but nobody said that all atheists were rational anyway. Jesus wasnt real lol.

[King Kong]

If you are looking for a really grandiose purpose for humanity, I hope that you are inspired by this poem:

Beyond the stars there are still other worlds;
There are other fields to test man's indomitable spirit.

Not devoid of life are those open spaces of heaven;
There are hundreds of other caravans in them as well.

Do not remain contented with this sensible world;
Beyond it there are other gardens and nests as well.

If thou hast lost one nest, what then?
There are other places for sighing and wailing as well.

Thou art an eagle; thy business is to soar in the empyrean;
Thou hast other skies in which thou canst range as well.

Be not entangled in this world of days and nights;
Thou hast another time and space as well.

Ironically, it is part of a primarily religious poetic work, the Bal-e-Jibril, by Muhammed Iqbal. But I've always been satisfied by it.

If you want something less vague, our purpose is to figure out a way to escape the universe before it kills us. As Jerry Seinfeld said: "Because living is good; and dying, not as good."

[Wicked Pilot]

What's the purpose of humanity from an atheistic point of view? Or rather, what should it be, and why?

Humans exist. If the individual what's to find purpose in their life then they have to go out and make it.

[Lagmonster]

Actually i was talking in broader terms, not the purpose of individuals but the whole of humanity. Seeing as we are the only known critters with an intelligence high enough to shape things around us the way we want to.

Humanity is a collection of individuals, however. Now, granted, many people have the *same* goal in life, but this is not the same as a purpose for humanity at large. Largely because 'purpose' and 'goal', as you've asked for, are different things altogether.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

I would dispute that. My friend Jenni believes "everything happens for a reason" and she identifies herself as "certainly atheistic."

I would dispute that she could technically be an atheist, then, depending on what you define as a god or gods...

Reason is something that is only exercised by sentient beings, as far as we know. Unless you equivocate 'reason' to mean nothing more than simple action/reaction, cause/effect, I think it can be safely implied that 'reason' denotes a sentience behind it. Thus, if one believes that there is 'reason' behind everything in the universe, one would have to imply that there is one or more sentient beings behind this reason. And anything, or any group of things powerful enough to be the 'reason' behind everything in the universe is, in my incomplete definition, certainly powerful/influential enough to be deities.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

Oh hell, and because I completely failed to address the OP...

To me, humanity has no unifying purpose. Perhaps my logic is flawed, but assuming a 'purpose' for an entire species implies that something the whole species is accountable to gave them that purpose.

I have my own purpose, but it's something I've made myself after years of learning and growing. My own purpose is fairly simple: We're sentient beings, we can derive pleasure and pain in quite possibly more ways than any other lifeform, we also have the intelligence to observe what, exactly, can be beneficial or detrimental to other lifeforms. It's my purpose to try and help better the experience as much as possible for those around me. The line between helping out a few closer to me a lot, and helping out a whole lot not as close to me a little...hasn't been defined yet. The former goes into pure selfishness if pushed too far, and the latter devolves into a pointless type of utilitarianism.

Part of this 'purpose' is trying to convince others to adopt it. For if they do, they'll actively work to better the ones around them, thus doing more work to fulfil my own purpose.

Damn, I just realized I'm an evangelical atheist.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

This is another one of those things I thought way back in the day when i used to discuss religion and philosophy on other boards. I'm asking it again since i doubt the question could ever be answered in a satisfactory way (to me at least).

What's the purpose of humanity from an atheistic point of view? Or rather, what should it be, and why?

From a strictly naturalistic standpoint, the human species has no purpose other than the propogation of its collection of genes from one generation to the next. As a side-effect of our evolution has been the development of a gross excess of cerebral capacity, we're generally not satisfied with this answer, and try to find patterns where none exist. Hence the invention of gods, devils, angels, spirits and other creatures of the supernatural menagerie which involve us mere mortals in their greater struggles and interactions.

However, you're making the mistake of assuming that atheists are one monolithic mass which can be pigeonholed neatly into a little box. You can ask a secular humanist what the purpose of a human is, and he might tell you that our purpose should be to work to the betterment of other humans, because it is the rational thing to do. An objectivist Rand-droid might tell you that the purpose of people is to make themselves better and screw the rest.

I find that if i knew this then a lot of other 'big' questions would be answered. From questions like how should you live your life to simple 'what would be the right thing to do in this situation' kind of thing.

I find that the more i think about it, the more it all boils down to 'everything is meaningless and there is no right and wrong'. Esentially the worth of the entire human race is about as much as a grain of sand.

In the overall scheme of the universe, you'd be entirely correct. At any given moment, there's probably as many species at our level of development as there are suitable spiral galaxies in the universe. There are probably rather fewer civilizations more advanced than we are, and there will many tens of millions of times as many species far more primitive than we are. However, as it is physically impossible for you to visit all of these civilizations, even if you were incapable of dying naturally and had had a magical FTL spaceship, you ought not cast your nets so far afield.

So what are your thoughts on this? Oh and when you give the answer to the purpose of humankind remember to include the why. Alot of people simply answer "to improve ourselves" but without a why i find the answer kinda meh.

Since the inescapable conclusion of attempting to evaluate humanity's place relative to the cosmos is pessimistic nihilism, you have to restrict your thoughts of humanity's purpose to within the context of the species and our place on this planet. Since our basic purpose is to survive, thrive, and propogate, then the rational way to do this is to work for the improvement of the quality of life of other humans, and the protection of our environment. That would be the closest you could get to an overreaching "purpose" and it's one that, though it is the rational thing to do, is entirely voluntary.

[SirNitram]

Apparently I'm the only one that thinks there should be something more.

Atheism rejects such notions. We exist because we were born, we were born due to biology.

[Darth Servo]

Our purpose is to party!!!

[Zero]

Atheism isn't a life philosophy, just a lack of believe in some kind of divinity. The way I figure it, purpose is something defined by sentient beings. Trying to find an objective purpose or point to life is fruitless, because from an objective perspective, there's no such thing as purpose, just processes that yield specific results.

Since purpose is something that must, by nature, be subjective, your purpose is whatever you want it to be. Whether it's to better humanity, propogate your genes, make a family, whatever it is, it's up to you. You define your own purpose.

Even if there were a god, it would be so, because purpose still couldn't be based on any objective reality, so god's view on your purpose in life couldn't be any more or less valid than yours simply because he's the ruler of the universe. It's always up to the individual to decide their own purpose.

[mr friendly guy]

I never said there must be a purpose, it's just that there generally is a purpose to why people do stuff. If you're of the opinion that there shouldn't be a purpose, then that's ok..

But you phrased the question in such a way to imply there must be a purpose. Let me put it another way. If I wanted to know about Doctor House's bedside manner would I ask

a) whats Doctor House's bedside manner like? or
b) Why is Doctor House so rude?

Option b) already implies that you already know Doctor House bedside manner is rude. This is called a loaded question.

If you wanted to know whether there is a purpose and if so what is it, you frankly phrased it badly. I can only reply to what you typed, not what you wished you had typed.

And just for the record our "purpose" is to exist. Of course I see the fact that we exist as a function of biology which in turn are dependent on physical laws, rather than because of any purpose (which implies some goal directed state, usually used in the context of intelligent directed goals).

I just find it easier to maximise efficency when i know what goal i should be striving for. That's what the statement was supposed to say. I don't know where you got your theory or where morality ever entered into it..

From the rest of your OP

I find that the more i think about it, the more it all boils down to 'everything is meaningless and there is no right and wrong'.

Frankly when people use the term right and wrong in this context they are meaning moral and immoral, not correct/incorrect or in terms of maximal utility. To suggests after the fact that you meant something else smacks of equivocation.