Dark Moose and KT Jelly Strike Again...

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-06-29 03:52pm

And Vonda McIntyre...

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2006-06-29 03:58pm

Mange wrote:And Vonda McIntyre...

You mean that one shitty novel of hers still elicits derision to this day?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-06-29 04:17pm

Galvatron wrote:
Mange wrote:And Vonda McIntyre...
You mean that one shitty novel of hers still elicits derision to this day?

Very much so. EU fanboys who refuse to admit that a great deal of the Expanded Universe is rather low in quality constantly point at Crystal Star and laugh, as if it is the sole example of what is wrong with the franchise. It's rather unfair, really; at least she didn't attempt to foist the ideas proposed in her work to the highest levels of the EU canon and violently deride any who said it sucked.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-06-29 04:18pm

Galvatron wrote:
Mange wrote:And Vonda McIntyre...
You mean that one shitty novel of hers still elicits derision to this day?

Yes, someone referred to it as a "roll of toilet paper". A moderator even joked and said that "maybe put out a bounty for Barbara Hambley, Vonda McIntyre, etc." (+http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa? ... 6&start=15 ). I dare not think what would happen if a regular member made a similar joke about Traviss. Oh wait...

I largely left the OS forums due to the behaviour of the OS mods in general and Dark Moose in particular. I was fed up with the abusive behaviour that Dark Moose displayed and I stated in an existing thread in Forum Feedback in June 2004 (I had joined SD.net less than two months earlier when I actively started to search for other SW communities) that DM was rude and that the bannings were arbitrary (+http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa? ... dID=175361 ) so his behaviour isn't new, although it has become firmly entrenched.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-06-29 04:50pm

Yes, someone referred to it as a "roll of toilet paper". A moderator even joked and said that "maybe put out a bounty for Barbara Hambley, Vonda McIntyre, etc."

In light of all the author discussions pre-Traviss, I must say fans treat her like some kind of holy cow. Oh no, was I being sexist? :P

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-06-29 06:30pm

Wait until Bloodlines comes out. If some of the rumors about her creative decisions are correct, well... the fan backlash will make everything prior seem minor.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-06-29 06:39pm

Boba Fett suddenly speaking Mando'a is retarded, but not backlash-worthy. Unless you're referring to something else.

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-06-29 06:50pm

She's said things like "Boba Fett is the only person Han truly fears" and has an aversion to Jedi. A much bigger portion of the fanbase cares about the Jedi and "Big Three" characters-- if they aren't treated properly, well...

There's already a number of people with absolutely no stake in Clone War issues who are apprehensive about Traviss' contributions to LotF.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2006-06-29 06:54pm

Mando'a is retarded, and I don't just mean short bus retarded, but full fledged pinhead retarded. Why do people put apostraphes in proper names? If you're going to make up a bullshit language, what's wrong with naming it "Mandoa"? You don't see Huttese spelled Hu'utes'se.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-06-29 06:55pm

Elfdart wrote:Mando'a is retarded, and I don't just mean short bus retarded, but full fledged pinhead retarded. Why do people put apostraphes in proper names? If you're going to make up a bullshit language, what's wrong with naming it "Mandoa"? You don't see Huttese spelled Hu'utes'se.

I guess they think it makes it sound more foreign and exotic. They probably wish they could think of an elegant way to put clicking sounds in names.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-06-29 06:55pm

VT-16 wrote:Boba Fett suddenly speaking Mando'a is retarded, but not backlash-worthy. Unless you're referring to something else.

Oh yes. As she said with "ODDS", a lot of the fanbase are going to ber pissed. She gets to fuck with the main 3 characters now, and something big is supposed to happen.

She has stated that since she's a JOURNO (she repeats that every single time she types something in any blog) that she does character psyc profiles on characters instead of reading any EU whatsoever other than her stuff, and her profiles on these characters are "surprisingly accurate."

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-06-29 07:01pm

Exactly. Few care about numbers of soldiers or even the scope of the Clone War, but the main characters? They're sacred to most fans. And like Poe says, she's admitted to never having read (or planning to read) any of the existing material, preferring to rely on the Holocron.

Plus, there's the forboding title of LotF V, which is, interestingly, a hardcover...

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-06-29 07:01pm

She's obviously the kind of "journo" that does fluff news pieces on a soldier getting a letter from his hometown sweetheart or corresponding with a grade-school class in Tennessee. Psychobabble is no substitute for facts.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2006-06-29 07:04pm

Lord Poe wrote:She has stated that since she's a JOURNO (she repeats that every single time she types something in any blog) that she does character psyc profiles on characters instead of reading any EU whatsoever other than her stuff, and her profiles on these characters are "surprisingly accurate."

And if you believe that...

The woman doesn't know the meaning of the word "accurate"

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-06-29 07:09pm

Oh yes. As she said with "ODDS", a lot of the fanbase are going to ber pissed. She gets to fuck with the main 3 characters now, and something big is supposed to happen.

Wow, writing just to piss people off consciously? That's going to be popular.

and her profiles on these characters are "surprisingly accurate."

Reading in-house summaries on fictional characters does not make her a psychologist.

It's funny, but the more I read about this coming dread, the more it reminds me of the media's reaction to Fred Phelps and co. Fucking up the Clone Wars with numbers most fanboys are too stupid to comprehend = No biggie.
Fucking up main characters from the OT = Big uproar.

If they get pissed, I'm just going to sit back and

Too little, too late, morons.

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-06-29 07:15pm

To be fair, a large portion of the fanbase didn't even read any of Traviss's material, or if they did, all the read were the novels. Bloodlines, Sacrifice, and the other book are all big, mainstream books that'll get a ton of sales simply by virtue of being part of the latest Big Series.

Hell, I've even considered picking up Bloodlines, just to keep up with the series.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-06-29 07:15pm

But of course her profiles are accurate. She says they're accurate, and if you point out inaccuracies, you're a misogynistic troll stalking psychopath who needs to be driven off the Internet and garrotted.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-06-29 07:20pm

I'm not going to bother pointing out that even profiling done by trained professionals with access to piles of personal information are often regarded as totally useless. I'm sure some journalist reading SW novels has way more luck than those damn scientists!

PS they're accurate... to what? They're fictional characters!

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-06-29 07:22pm

Reading through this thread, I have to say that Traviss certainly hasn't killed my liking for the EU, and there are pleny of others who (appear to) feel the same way I do. I've always been a fan of the Star Wars continuity as a whole, rather than individual pieces of it, and a hack writer isn't going to change that. She may be more obstinate and irritating than most, but Star Wars has had and survived its fair share of hacks. Fortunately, for every Kevin J. Anderson, Karen Traviss, or R. A. Salvator there's an Abel Pena, Dan Wallace, or Jim Luceno, there to pick up the pieces and keep everything smooth.

EDIT: Stark, what's worse is she doesn't even read the novels. She's said often and loudly that she hates reading, and relies on the Holocron for information.

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2006-06-29 07:25pm

She hates reading? Good lord, why does anyone take her at all seriously?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-06-29 07:31pm

Her idiotic arguments about military strength requirements for control of large regions already made it rather obvious that reading isn't her strong suit. This is not someone who studies before speaking.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2006-06-29 07:32pm

Oh...my...god...

This...this...just...

I weep for my profession!

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2006-06-29 07:42pm

When I debated her briefly on her Live Journal (before she banned me

), Traviss dug up my SW Wiki profile where I said I didn't read a bunch of the old EU sources (post-ROTJ or OT era, before the prequels were made) yet, and tried to use that to portray me as ignorant of the subject. It was a total red herring, since I did read or was knowledgable about her work, as well as the way the Clone Wars were portrayed in the movies, cartoons, ICS books, etc. And now I find out that Traviss herself doesn't read the rest of the EU. No Karen, you're not a hypocrite.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2006-06-29 07:46pm

Anguirus wrote:She hates reading?

Can somebody find the quote where she says this? I would love to see it. If she hates reading so much, then what the fuck is she doing writing? I've considered writing fanfiction before, and even as an amateur I knew that reading a lot (both for research on your subject, and to see what works and what doesn't) was one of the ways to be a good writer.

Oh sorry, I forgot. KT is perfect, she never makes mistakes, and she doesn't need to be bothered with silly things like research. She's my HERO, and my role model for mature and rational behavior.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-06-29 07:48pm

Jim, reading your online profile was almost certainly enough for her to 'construct' a 'psychological' 'profile' of you. I wouldn't be surprised if that's how she deals with people: finds a reason to shoehorn them into some box like 'obsessive' or 'mysognist' so she can ignore them, and go back to rocking back and forth in the corner flicking the light on and off.