Most competent organization in Sci-fi

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2002-12-16 05:24pm

Which power in sci-fi is best at things like combat training, engineering, tactical skills, and national security?

willburns84 · Post by **willburns84** » 2002-12-16 05:33pm

The Domination of the Draka.

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2002-12-16 05:34pm

willburns84 wrote:The Domination of the Draka.

How so?

willburns84 · Post by **willburns84** » 2002-12-16 06:27pm

My internet connection is spotty - I'll respond in depth when I can.

Sorry...

willburns84 · Post by **willburns84** » 2002-12-16 06:50pm

This setting / series / universe belongs to S.M. Stirling.

Set in an alternate history universe, a dysotopia to be precise, the Domination of the Draka, during the WW2 time-period on Earth, possessed the T-6 600 rpm, 5mm, 75 round drum magazine - during the same period Nazi Germany was still using a bolt action rifle that came into service just before the start of the 20th Century.

Personnel training during that time produced infantry that were as skilled as modern day special forces troops in every way.

Later, centuries the after ultimate victory in the "Final War", genetic tailoring and engineering, not to mention biotech augmentation which turns a single individual into what can only be described as an unbermencsh (?spelling?) - skin that can stop small arms fire 5.56mm at least - regeneration of limbs - running speed in excess of a leopard at a full sprint and endurance to allow such speeds for hours - night vision. Strength levels, I cannot recall, but it is *far* in excess of the human norm. Emmission of special pheromones allow them to "control" or rather dominate any unaugmented human.

This kind of human is known as Homo Drakesis (?spelling?), as seen in Drakon...

Hand to hand training during all time periods is nothing less than superb - both unarmed and armed (usually knives). It is not the flowery wavy form of a Jet Li - but it is brutally and devastatingly effective - shortest and smallest amount of force for the greatest result.

Technology after the "Final War" - one example of an "antique" is a plasma pistol which is more than capable of destroying a modern day MBT with a low power blast...

The Domination of the Draka is *not* a nice place to be in. Anyone who is not a citizen is a serf - a slave.

More to come...

willburns84 · Post by **willburns84** » 2002-12-16 07:15pm

Tactics. Strategy. In 1941, when Nazi Germany defeated the USSR before first snow (in the alternate history), the Domination of the Draka's land army was 95% mechanized - unlike the German army of that time. Pioneered use of helicopters in military formations - heliborne troops. First test of nuclear weapon, massed use of nuclear weapons to conquer Nazi Germany and all of continental Europe.

::wracks brain for details found in "Marching Through Georgia":: A company of Draka paratroopers held off several times their number of SS Panzer Grenadiers while awaiting Drakan armored spearheads to relieve them of their hold of a mountain valley pass...

When a new country / land / territory is conquered the following happens:
1) Everyone is swept up and placed into what can only be called concentration camps.
2) Anyone found outside of a concentration camp is killed.
3) Ex-soldiers of the nation or nations they just defeated are killed.
4) Radios are confiscated, as are all printed materials.

Anti-partisan efforts are ruthless and brutal to say the least:
1) An uprising in Barcelona overruns the Security Directorate HQ. Draka personnel evacuated by helicopter, city destroyed by 1 megaton bomb. Films and survivors shown across occupied Europe.
2) 65% of Afganistan's population was killed before the area was pacified.

Tech note: "Recent" discovery of tech allowing the opening of moleholes. Portals to parallel universes and dimensions... New realms for them to conquer. Recent being relative, in the latest novel, "Drakon."

Perhaps more later...

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2002-12-16 07:17pm

With the exception of one or two conspiracies and interspecies mistakes, the Culture has successfully dealt with all problems/threats, outsmarting, outmaneuvering, out-everything-ing the competition.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-12-16 07:22pm

The Empire of the North from the Black Company books is rather brutally effective.

The Draegaran Empire from the Dragaran novels is, if not always competant, functional- it's lasted 200,000 years.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-16 07:35pm

HemlockGrey wrote:The Empire of the North from the Black Company books is rather brutally effective.

Decent, but not brilliant. Lady was nearly out manuvered by the Dominator a couple of times and only narrowly escaped them. And she was eventually brought down, relatively easly too.

Now, the Fourth Empire. Good military skills, excellent engineering, and abosulte geniuses at internal secuirty thanks to the system wide paranoia that would do the KGB proud.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-12-16 07:38pm

Decent, but not brilliant. Lady was nearly out manuvered by the Dominator a couple of times and only narrowly escaped them. And she was eventually brought down, relatively easly too.

To be fair, she willingly sacrificed her powers and position, and brought down her greatest enemy too- she also eventually regained her powers, which was something the White Rose never did.

Plus, the Empire survived her defeat, which can't be said, for, say, the Galactic Empire.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-16 08:19pm

HemlockGrey wrote:
Decent, but not brilliant. Lady was nearly out manuvered by the Dominator a couple of times and only narrowly escaped them. And she was eventually brought down, relatively easly too.
To be fair, she willingly sacrificed her powers and position, and brought down her greatest enemy too- she also eventually regained her powers, which was something the White Rose never did.

She did do that. And it was admirable. But that doesn't change the fact that she got played six ways from Sunday by the Dominator and later Khadi.

And she would up the personal pawn of a demon-goddess in regaining those powers. And it was Khadi and later Croaker giving her power, not an actual return of her own powers.

HemlockGrey wrote:Plus, the Empire survived her defeat, which can't be said, for, say, the Galactic Empire.

Only after nearly getting gutted and ripped apart by the Limper and the fight over the silver spike.

That is in and of itself a note worthy accomplisment but as much a testament to the Governors as to the Lady.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-12-17 01:11am

Stormwatch: Team Achilles, normal humans who take out metahumans with good training, equipment, and planning, and have survived annoying the Authority. But only if we include comic books.

Sardaukar · Post by **Sardaukar** » 2002-12-17 01:23am

willburns84 wrote:My internet connection is spotty - I'll respond in depth when I can. Sorry...

It will take you 20 mins to get back to the internet

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-17 01:31am

I'd say it's a toss-up between Star Fleet and the Borg.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2002-12-17 05:32am

Engineering-vise I'd say the Xeelee.

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2002-12-17 05:51am

the Geheime Wissenschaftliche Abwehr and their agents ZBV

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2002-12-17 10:33am

The Draka seem pretty improbable to me. I doubt the other European nations would just sit on their collective assess and let England (or an ostensible colony of England) conquer the entire continent, especially given Africa's mineral wealth.

Cosmic Average · Post by **Cosmic Average** » 2002-12-17 01:43pm

Setzer wrote:The Draka seem pretty improbable to me. I doubt the other European nations would just sit on their collective assess and let England (or an ostensible colony of England) conquer the entire continent, especially given Africa's mineral wealth.

They started out in South Africa. And went about conquering the entire continent.

willburns84 · Post by **willburns84** » 2002-12-17 06:38pm

Up until the late 19th Century Africa was a pretty formidable place, disease, high temperatures, and simple geography (not to mention natives which were immune to "European" diseases) prevented European conquest of the continent.

Apart from coastal way stations and the like, no one really ventured too far inland (exceptions of southern tip of Africa and up north in Egypt and northern coast) as far as conquest went. It took the advent of repeater rifles and the realization that apart from Africa, the rest of the world had already been either divided up already between the European powers or had already thrown off European control.

At the time in the novels, I'm sure the European powers thought that the Draka/English were going to bleed and spend themselves into impotence in their march north...

willburns84 · Post by **willburns84** » 2002-12-17 06:44pm

Moreover, the conquest of Africa took more than a century, a slow and steady march northwards - much like the United States steady march west to the Pacific. Now, the U.S. certainly didn't conquer the whole of a continent, but still the sheer massiveness of the U.S. cannot be denied. I'm sure many European nations would have liked to have had or even kept a piece of that pie (the US analogy), but there were other priorities to deal with...

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2002-12-17 08:10pm

Yanno, I'm pretty damn certain that South Africa was originally a dutch colony..

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2002-12-17 08:13pm

how did the author of Draka manage to reasonably explain away iron age civilisations (at best) suddenly becoming post industrial? I mean, it appears that the Draka empire had in ~1940 thereabout technology that is more resemblant of ~1960. Which makes them 60 years ago about a hundred years more advanced then they are now. They were 160 years ahead of their time..

willburns84 · Post by **willburns84** » 2002-12-17 08:27pm

kojikun wrote:Yanno, I'm pretty damn certain that South Africa was originally a dutch colony..

It was. In both the Alternate History and in real history, South Africa did start as a Dutch colony, later on, it was conquered / seded whathaveyou to the British Empire.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2002-12-17 08:32pm

yeah i would imagine it had been conquered by the brits, given their control of it in the earlier half of the last century

willburns84 · Post by **willburns84** » 2002-12-17 08:35pm

kojikun wrote:how did the author of Draka manage to reasonably explain away iron age civilisations (at best) suddenly becoming post industrial? I mean, it appears that the Draka empire had in ~1940 thereabout technology that is more resemblant of ~1960. Which makes them 60 years ago about a hundred years more advanced then they are now. They were 160 years ahead of their time..

Uhhhh, what?

The Draka timeline written by S.M. Stirling explained not only political developments but also tech advances.

One thing which might not have been made clear was that up until a formal break, the Dominion of Drakia (later the Domination of the Draka) was a part of the British Empire. The dominant population of that colony are from Europe & the Americas and have European tech to start from...

The tech advances are explained in the timeline. The Domination of the Draka spend the vast majority of their economy on the military and on R&D related to the military.