"I have the high ground!"

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2006-06-30 01:48pm

Pcm979 wrote:... I don't see the problem. Becoming a Jedi Master has nothing to do with sheer power and everything to do with following the Code. That's why Anakin, the most powerful Force-User in known history, never became one.

Don't be retarted. Qui-Gon was a fucking known rebel and he was made a Jedi Master, he was just kept off the council, a fact that wouldn't have happened if he followed the code (according to Obi-Wan), true, but unlike 'Force potential sensor boy', Qui-Gon actually had the right to wear the title of Jedi Master.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2006-06-30 03:22pm

According to SW Wiki (take that for what you will), "Jedi Master" seems to be a mere rank. You become a Jedi Master by successfully training your Padawan into a Knight. It's nothing but a formality, and has nothing to do with Force abilities (besides meeting the minimum requirements to even be allowed into the Jedi Order). That seems to make sense, seeing as how Anakin was able own numerous Jedi Masters.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2006-06-30 03:29pm

Jim Raynor wrote:According to SW Wiki (take that for what you will), "Jedi Master" seems to be a mere rank. You become a Jedi Master by successfully training your Padawan into a Knight. It's nothing but a formality, and has nothing to do with Force abilities (besides meeting the minimum requirements to even be allowed into the Jedi Order). That seems to make sense, seeing as how Anakin was able own numerous Jedi Masters.

Rant. On.

Look, I'm not ragin' in anyone in this thread, but just the fucking stupidity coming out of the EU. For crying out loud, we even had a point in time when Obi-Wan-muther-fuckin'-Kenobi wasn't going to be trained as a Jedi Knight at all but sent to be a farmer.

And why? Was it because he lacked power or aptitude? No, it was because they couldn't find a Master for him.

Then we get treated to Scout. Scout can barely touch the Force, but thanks to an act of plot, she doesn't get sent to become a Farmer (unlike the fate that nearly befell one of the most pivitol characters of all Star Wars lore), but gets assigned a Master, because she has a valuable thing to teach.

Now, now, they try to sell me on the idea that you can actually become a Jedi Master and have about the same raw talent as Scout.

Hail the fucking Sith I say! Best thing Vader ever did was gut them all.

Rant. Off.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-06-30 06:47pm

Wasn't Shryne's surprise due to the fact that he found himself completely unable to alter the course of the lightsaber? I'd expect that it's a bad idea to try a lightsaber throw against another Force user, because he could wrest control of the weapon from midair. You'd be no more in control of the flying saber than he would, but he'd still have his weapon safely in his grasp. Potential confuckulation could befall you.

The Jedi Master in question was surprised and confused as to whether he'd suddenly lost his telekinetic abilities, or whether Vader was so strong that Shryne's powers were insignificant next to the Sith Lord's (obviously the latter).

Uh, back on topic.
Obi-Wan lops off the arms of random innocent patrons at entertainment establishments.. first at a Coruscant nightclub, then in a cantina on Tatooine.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2006-06-30 10:00pm

Actually, if you go by the canon AOTC novelization, their are only "12" true masters of the order, and guess what their all on the council. Everyone else is just a jedi with a honorific title.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2006-06-30 10:16pm

I wouldn't say that Obi Wan's Arm removals were of Innocent partons of a bar.

The were clearly belligerent.

The two were, A bounty hunter who was attempting to shoot his apprentance the other was a street thug with delusions of grandure.

We are wanted for the deat sentance in 12 systems.

(in obi's head) So, I'm wanted for death in every system!

Lord Sander · Post by **Lord Sander** » 2006-07-01 02:10am

Cykeisme wrote:Uh, back on topic.
Obi-Wan lops off the arms of random innocent patrons at entertainment establishments.. first at a Coruscant nightclub, then in a cantina on Tatooine.

This was intentionally put in as a link between the trilogies, as was the Kenobi-Fett Hiding Technique.
I'm interested in stuff George Lucas accidentally put in that in hindsight fits (as I mentioned in the OP).

FOG3 · Post by **FOG3** » 2006-07-01 01:14pm

Crown wrote:
Civil War Man wrote:
Spartan wrote:It's just bad writing, but SOD it was either the distance or this particular master wasn't all that verses in sabre combat.
The book went into a small amount of detail (in the beginning in particular) about how, despite being a Master, he wasn't that strong a Force user. The only thing he really excelled at, IIRC, was detecting and IDing other Force users.

What the FUCK is wrong with the EU? I had to sit through 'Scout', and now this shit? Oh for crying out loud!

You people and your

Shyrne was a Jedi Knight, that was made abundantly clear and extremely explicit in the book. Not only was this guy a only Jedi Knight, but a Jedi Knight that under normal circumstances had issues connecting with the Force, period! Read the openning chapter from his perspective on this, by analogy with the cloud conditions they're dropping through, already. Otherwise Vader notes he's kind of like Obi-wan in some aspects of his beliefs.

The Jedi Master of the intial group got killed earlier dueling with Vader, in a display that was so downright clumsy on Vader's part the padawan was _astonished_ by how clumsy he was. His main reason for not downgrading from clumsy parapalegic in a suit to deceased was she nailed his arm, and proceeded to be stunned by his mechanical nature long enough for him to kill her with no real resistance. A downright pathetic performance by all parties.

The rest except for a padawan who had been in training to be a _librarian_ and was messed up in the head in a weird reverse version of a survival mindset, existed as little more then names, and placeholders to be butchered. In short redshirts, or low grade mobile suits for the Gundam crowd. Considering the Padawan lasted the longest, and they were following the padawan froma a SOD perspective their focus was shattered, which means their powers and control were FUBAR. IIRC they were made up of a pair of Agricorp brats, a pair of Jedi Knights, and maybe a Master who all deferred to this deluded Padawan the role of command. In top form they were not.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-07-01 02:02pm

And whats the problem with that?

We almost only see the topdogs of the Jedi-Order, but hardly the average Knight so why complain about the lacking abilities of the average ones?

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-07-01 06:12pm

Isolder74 wrote:I wouldn't say that Obi Wan's Arm removals were of Innocent partons of a bar.

Sorry the use of the adjective "innocent" was a poor attempt at sarcasm. I realize Zam Wessel wasn't really a true patron either, since her sole reason for visiting the establishment was for the purpose of concealing herself from her Jedi pursuers. And she didn't even buy any drinks!

Isolder74 wrote:We are wanted for the deat sentance in 12 systems.
(in obi's head) So, I'm wanted for death in every system!

Hahaha Obi-Wan would be that much more badass if he'd actually said that!
Kinda like the line that didn't make it into RotS, where when Grievious says "I have been trained in the Jedi arts by Count Dooku," Obi-Wan retorts, "I trained the Jedi that killed Count Dooku."

Lord Sander wrote:This was intentionally put in as a link between the trilogies, as was the Kenobi-Fett Hiding Technique.
I'm interested in stuff George Lucas accidentally put in that in hindsight fits (as I mentioned in the OP).

I'm sorry, I didn't realize it was intentionally put in as a link between the trilogies.
Can you direct me to a listing of George Lucas' intentional links so I can avoid the same mistake again?

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-07-01 06:12pm

FOG3 wrote:The Jedi Master of the intial group got killed earlier dueling with Vader, in a display that was so downright clumsy on Vader's part the padawan was _astonished_ by how clumsy he was. His main reason for not downgrading from clumsy parapalegic in a suit to deceased was she nailed his arm, and proceeded to be stunned by his mechanical nature long enough for him to kill her with no real resistance. A downright pathetic performance by all parties.

Hmm.. re-reading the relevant paragraphs in the book, I noticed it's explicitly stated that Vader beats her with brute force ("simply beaten her into submission"). No indication is given of the Jedi Master's surprise at the sparks from Vader's forearm wound. Apparently brute force was sufficient substitute for finesse.
Admittedly, Vader did have advanced knowledge of lightsaber duelling techniques even if he lacked the motor control to properly execute them at the time, and his strength both in the Force as well as his unaugmented physical strength far exceeded the female Jedi Master. I could post quotes if anyone wants them.

Shryne is also clearly stated to be a master swordsman, despite his tenous ability (or lack thereof) to properly connect with the Force.

I'm in absolute agreement with your assessment of the quality of Starstone's little band, though.