Windows Genuine Advantage - kill switch?

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Uraniun235
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Windows Genuine Advantage - kill switch?

Post by Uraniun235 »

HOT FROM THE B-B-BLOGOSPHERE (text not in quotes because links do not show up well in the quote box)

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Is Microsoft about to release a Windows "kill switch"?
Posted by Ed Bott @ 8:06 am

Two weeks ago, I wrote about my serious objections to Microsoft’s latest salvo in the war against unauthorized copies of Windows. Two Windows Genuine Advantage components are being pushed onto users’ machines with insufficient notification and inadequate quality control, and the result is a big mess. (For details, see Microsoft presses the Stupid button.)

Guess what? WGA might be on the verge of getting even messier. In fact, one report claims WGA is about to become a Windows “kill switch” – and when I asked Microsoft for an on-the-record response, they refused to deny it.

Last week, a correspondent on Dave Farber’s Interesting People list posted some comments about his experiences with Windows OneCare Live. In the middle of the post, he added this tidbit:
I like to review updates before they are installed. The only update that I have not installed is the latest WGA because of the security issues related to it.

I called Microsoft support to see if there is a hidden option to say, "yep, I've got updates turned to manual… it's okay." The rep said, "No and why wouldn't you want to get the latest updates to Windows."

I responded with the issues relating to WGA. He spent some time telling me that WGA was a good thing, etc. I reiterated that I have accepted all the updates except WGA and just want to review the updates before they're installed on my machine.

He told me that "in the fall, having the latest WGA will become mandatory and if its not installed, Windows will give a 30 day warning and when the 30 days is up and WGA isn't installed, Windows will stop working, so you might as well install WGA now." [emphasis added]

I'm wondering if Microsoft has the right to disable Windows functionality or the OS as a whole (tantamount to revoking my legitimate Windows license) if I do not install every piece of software that they send it updates.
That can’t be true, can it? I’m always suspicious of any report that comes from a front-line tech support drone, so I sent a note to Microsoft asking for an official confirmation or, better yet, a denial. Instead, I got this terse response from a Microsoft spokesperson:
As we have mentioned previously, as the WGA Notifications program expands in the future, customers may be required to participate. [emphasis added] Microsoft is gathering feedback in select markets to learn how it can best meet its customers' needs and will keep customers informed of any changes to the program.
Uh-oh. Currently, Windows users have the ability to opt out of the Windows Genuine Advantage program and still get security patches and other Critical Updates delivered via Windows Update. The only thing you give up is the ability to download optional updates. Hackers have been working overtime to find ways to disable WGA notification. If WGA becomes mandatory, would it mean that Microsoft could prevent Windows from working if it determines – possibly erroneously – that your copy isn’t “genuine”? That’s a chilling possibility, and Microsoft refuses an easy opportunity to deny that that option is in its plans.

Over at Ed Bott’s Windows Expertise, I’ve been soliciting feedback from Windows users who’ve been burned by WGA. So far, I’ve received 20 comments. Here’s a sampling:
  • I have an XP Media center with a promise RAID 0 4-disc array. When I installed the WPA it broke the drivers for the array by causing failed delayed writes (half of the array just “disapears”.) If I do a system restore to before the installation of the WPA everything goes back to working just fine.
  • ince installing WPA … I’ve had blue screens and a total inability to boot. I had to run the XP repair function to get the computer to boot. I had a damaged boot sector on the hard drive. I am running two drives on a RAID 1 config.
  • I purchased a SEALED OEM copy of XP Professional. WGA said the license key was already used. I called MS and they said I should uninstall and buy another copy. I told them I wasn’t made of money and hung-up.
  • Microsoft rejected the product key that came with the ThinkPad I’m using. I had to call in and they gave me another code to enter which supposedly worked but now I get the blue screen of death about every other time I reboot. I’ve also lost all internet connectivity.
  • I sent my Compaq Presario notebook for service repair, and it fails the WGA check. I have a legal version of windows xp professional on it. But I have no way to correct this problem.

What’s most disturbing about this whole saga is Microsoft’s complete lack of transparency on the issue. And before the ABM crowd jumps in with predictable “What did you expect?” comments, let me argue that Microsoft actually has a fairly good track record on transparency issues in recent years. Windows Product Activation is very well documented, and when a similar uproar occurred in 2001, it was squelched quickly by some fairly prominent postings from high-level executives who provided details without a lot of spin. Likewise, the Microsoft Security Response Center has done an exceptional job at providing quick responses to security issues. (Just ask Adam Shostack.)

Currently, no one at Microsoft is blogging about this fiasco. No executive has been quoted on the record about it. There are very few technical details available, and those that have been published are being tumbled through the spin machine and spit out as press releases.

If Microsoft really does plan to turn WGA into a kill switch in September, be prepared for an enormous backlash.
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Post by Edi »

Wouldn't surprise me at all if they did do that, but they're already in trouble with some major companies over fuckups with the WGA, so it's not going to earn them any friends if they go through with this.

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Post by Stark »

Wow - I've had to call MS to confirm flaky PIDs before, and they were helpful if ignorant. It sounds like they've got their marching orders now, and I hope I don't have to explain the 'yes, my whole computer has changed, that's right, I'm reinstalling again, people do that, I'm a professional yadda yadda' to the new militant phone guys.

PS I love web articles that are so hyperlinked - all my questions are answered already! :)
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Post by YT300000 »

Should I be worried that this is the first time I've heard of Windows Geniune Advantage? I have SP1 (got rid of SP2 almost two years ago), and have the updates set for semi-manual (it tells me there are updates automatically, I download or reject them myself).
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Post by phongn »

Microsoft is now requiring WGA for any non-security update. If you have a valid and legal installation of Windows it should be fine (though there are problems as noted above). That said, software is increasingly requiring SP2 these days and SP1 is being left behind.
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Post by Laird »

It comes down to the people that don't know that much about computers being screwed, I know WGA tried to get into my updates. It wasn't allowed too since I have updates set to notify me when updates are ready. Then I just deselect WGA.

There are many users out there that don't know how to set this or are too lazy to monitor the updates and they are the people who will suffer teh most from this.
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Post by Edi »

Laird wrote:It comes down to the people that don't know that much about computers being screwed, I know WGA tried to get into my updates. It wasn't allowed too since I have updates set to notify me when updates are ready. Then I just deselect WGA.

There are many users out there that don't know how to set this or are too lazy to monitor the updates and they are the people who will suffer teh most from this.
Likewise. I'm not allowing that phone home crap on my computer until it becomes absolutely necessary, especially since they fucked it up and put some untested beta code into the thing that went out and which caused a lot of the problems.

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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

So, essentially, it's the worst fears of what XP was going to bring to the table, but with Vista now and, seemingly, on track to be a real pain.

Great. I never liked the idea of Windows sending info without my consent back to home base, or getting updates I couldn't look over. This is making me very wary of how Microsoft is taking the piracy issue now, especially in an age of RIAA/MPAA DRM and StarForce.
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Post by Edi »

This Genuine Advantage shit is totally one-sided: All advantage for Microsoft and no benefit whatsoever for their customers but a constant pain in the ass instead. The Register has a number of articles on the subject and they haven't been impressed either.

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Post by Stark »

I don't get why anyone would allow their systems to install it: the basic principle is if it doesn't do something you like or need, don't install it. WGA is just copy-protection (buggy CP at that), so why would I recommend to anyone they install it? It doesn't fix security or add features.
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Post by phongn »

Stark wrote:I don't get why anyone would allow their systems to install it: the basic principle is if it doesn't do something you like or need, don't install it. WGA is just copy-protection (buggy CP at that), so why would I recommend to anyone they install it? It doesn't fix security or add features.
But most people just set WU to automatically install high-priority patches - patches that have previously been only security updates. So it sneaks aboard.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

As stated, the vast majority of people will trust MS and let the automatic system do all the tedious work, like looking after your firewall or cleaning out viruses and malware. This means it'll be a doddle to have MS just implement this and watch as all the dumb, "computers should be easy to use" people get sucked in to the maw. Anyone with an ounce of autonomy and computer sense will know this is bad juju and avoid like the plague.
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Post by Mad »

Stark wrote:I don't get why anyone would allow their systems to install it
But it "helps you to know if your copy of Windows is genuine"! Who wouldn't want to know if they're really using a fake version of Windows and didn't know it?

Basically, Microsoft manages to spin it that it's somehow helping the user combat these apparently non-genuine copies of Windows floating around. That's how it gets installed.

That, and it's more difficult to obtain certain updates (like DirectX 9) without it.
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Post by phongn »

IIRC, Microsoft is strongly trying to combat piracy from things like shops preinstalling Windows without actually selling a proper license - and Microsoft will give out a free copy if you can prove that you bought what you thought was legit software.

That said, I wonder how many of the deactivation problems (WGA mainly attacks the problem of generated VLKs) were caused by IT staffs using generated keys (or worse, FCKGW - I've seen it).
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Post by Stark »

Phongn, what sort of evidence does Microsoft accept for such things? I've heard of this (particularly in the dodgier owner/operator places) but I'm quite cynical about 'proving' someone else did it. Since MS would obviously be owning all over the company that sold the 'pirate' copy, they'd want to know it's for real, right?
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Post by Glocksman »

WGA was installed on both my Dell laptop (XP Home) and my homebrew desktop machine (legit retail XP Home Upgrade) with automatic updates, and despite my adding RAM to the laptop and swapping HD's around in the desktop, I haven't had any of the problems mentioned in this thread.

Nonetheless, I am annoyed with MS for classing this beta program as a 'critical update'.
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Post by phongn »

Stark wrote:Phongn, what sort of evidence does Microsoft accept for such things? I've heard of this (particularly in the dodgier owner/operator places) but I'm quite cynical about 'proving' someone else did it. Since MS would obviously be owning all over the company that sold the 'pirate' copy, they'd want to know it's for real, right?
I think a receipt is considered enough proof but I've never had to do this.
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Post by Uraniun235 »

Stark wrote:Phongn, what sort of evidence does Microsoft accept for such things? I've heard of this (particularly in the dodgier owner/operator places) but I'm quite cynical about 'proving' someone else did it. Since MS would obviously be owning all over the company that sold the 'pirate' copy, they'd want to know it's for real, right?
It's on the Microsoft website... I believe they require "proof of purchase", as well as the address and name of the business you bought the pirated copy from.
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Post by Netko »

Over on Arstechinca, someone in the discussion mentioned that MS gave him a legit copy for turning in the guy he bought his copy from on e-bay. If that is true, it seems that MS is basicly very lenient about where you bought it from since it has a great potential to turn into a PR nightmare (instead of an PR annoyance it is now) if they start not giving legit copies to Joe Blow idiot who doesn't even know what an OS is ("Microsoft broke my computer for no reason, it was working fine"), and has bought the comp from a mom & pop shop down the street who cut corners.

Not to mention that they are already being sued over it being spyware in California I think.

Meh, its good to be a CS student with free acsess to any MS software :P
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Post by Pu-239 »

mmar wrote: Meh, its good to be a CS student with free acsess to any MS software :P
Indeed :P . Unfortunately they only allow you one copy of each, mine of which is already being used on this university-owned laptop from work for work-related development- too much of a headache trying to get the original operating system CD, which apparently got "lost" by Dell. It's simply easier just to utilize other means for my home computers... forgot to download Win2K3 before they locked it out during the summer.

Though I'm a Linux user anyway :P . Only use I have for Windows is work-related development and running Total Annihilation (until I get a better desktop computer which can tolerate the performance hit due to WINE)

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Post by Zac Naloen »

Okay just so i understand, if you have microsoft genuine advantage your machine doesn't like being updated?

Fuck that im not buying a brand new copy of windows everytime i update my computer.

*edit* and now im worried because this computer constantly gets upgraded every few months and it automatically updated and restarted over night..
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Post by phongn »

Zac Naloen wrote:Okay just so i understand, if you have microsoft genuine advantage your machine doesn't like being updated?
You need WGA in order to non-critical OS updates. There is a new WGA Notification tool that Microsoft kinda snuck in by calling it "critical" that attempts to check if your version of Windows is truly legit, and nags you if it isn't.
Fuck that im not buying a brand new copy of windows everytime i update my computer.
Oh, no, you just have to re-activate the computer. From what I've heard, the process is quite painless - call Microsoft and tell 'em that you've upgraded your computer.
*edit* and now im worried because this computer constantly gets upgraded every few months and it automatically updated and restarted over night..
Every few months?
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Post by Zac Naloen »

Well, its a pretty old and lots of things need replacing.. so i do it when i can afford that part rather than getting all the money together.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

The thing that gets me is that the software constantly reports back to MS HQ on whether your copy is legit or not, or so I've read. Why do they need to do that? It should be a one off, it's not like your copy is going to become a pirated version spontaneously overnight, so one validation is all you need. The end user is really getting fucked in the arse by this whole anti-piracy policy of today.
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