Star Wars: Legacy (set 145 ABY and starring Cade Skywalker)

[Ar-Adunakhor]

1. That's your bet. I have no bets till someone tells me a definitive answer.

Here is how it works. We have a fact. We then use logic to extrapolate from that fact. You then say we can't make those extrapolations because of (insert reasons). I then show you why we can indeed make those logical extrapolations, and ask if you have any way to show the logical conclusion is invalidated. You then are supposed to post proof, find a flaw in the logic used, or retract the statement. You are not supposed to say "Well you imagine it your way and I will imagine it mine."

2. If there's another theory and someone actually counted how many beams a TIE interceptor shoots in one go, then perhaps I will reconsider.

That decends from this:

Plus, by what logic can you claim that something is the same after 100 years?

To which I reply: We can claim that it is the same due to the overall stagnant state of technology in the SW universe, the fact that it is a direct descendant of a known measure and product line, and that with the information given the ball appears the same as in previous models in all but minor ways.

You have no evidence either to claim it will be a consistent design.

The technological stagnancy of the SW-verse is a well documented phenomenon, and suggests consistent design. The decent of the newer Imperial TIEs (Advanced, Defender, Interceptor) from previous TIE versions, and the continuance of that line in these TIEs is also a strong evidential point in favor of consistent design. Finally, there is the apparant design as a one-man fighter as evidenced by the continued use of a singular cockpit with a singular observation window, both following from the design of the original TIEs, which strongly suggests a consistent design.

[nightmare]

They have four laser cannons, spaced around the cockpit. Look closely.

Tiny stuff, they look even smaller than the bullpup TIE/ln laser cannons. The placement is somewhat odd. Although it could track up to four targets - if the Predator have that capability - the placement blocks vision when you fire. When I played The Darkening, I preferred the second best fighter in the game due to better weapons placement than the best fighter.

It looks smaller than any other TIE save the Raptor. Seemingly no tail at all, and the radiator fins are about Interceptor size. My guess is that this fighter is comparable to an upgraded Interceptor with more modern electronics and better integration. Most likely there's more high-powered fighters.

[Stark]

The placing of the guns at the edge of the window is stupid - the old chinguns could concievably been a significant device behind the ports, but these are right on the window, outside the huge empty cockpit. There's no space for fudging their size.

[Sharp-kun]

And, of course, there is the Coruscant-level planetary shield grid they set up, despite their claims of complete disarmament.

I'd say a heavy shield is essential for a planet that's disarmed. You can't fight, you at least need some protection.

[Noble Ire]

And, of course, there is the Coruscant-level planetary shield grid they set up, despite their claims of complete disarmament.

I'd say a heavy shield is essential for a planet that's disarmed. You can't fight, you at least need some protection.

That is true, but if the planet was truly as devoted to the Empire as they were advertising, they wouldn't need a shield, at least not of that power level. Certainly, a bog-standard shield is fine if you want to keep out random pirates or prevent criminals from escaping the planet, but the Alderaanian grid was powerful enough to withstand a full scale fleet bombardment. Since the Emperor pretty much had the monopoly on big capital ships up until the destruction of the world, which ironically served as a catalyst of Rebel growth and armament, I think it's pretty obvious what Bail Organa was preparing for.

[FTeik]

To come back to the problem with the TIE-Predators being to small for shields and hyperdrive - why don't we turn it around and claim, that based on the size of the things the classical TIEs of the OT can have shields and hyperdrives, too?

PT-era V-Wings can't be much larger than the Predators and they have shields according to the ROTS:ICS. Actis-Interceptors are even smaller and they have shields according to the ROTS-novel (although not according to the ICS). We see what looks like standard-TIEs and TIE-Interceptors with hyperdrive in the comic of "Heir to the Empire" and according to WEG at that time most of the Empire's TIEs have shields, because the Empire can no longer waste them.

[DesertFly]

As far as I've read, it's more than possible to put shields and hyperdrive in fighters the size of TIEs, it's just that their performance suffers due to the added mass. Now, of course, this probably doesn't apply to these new ones. Despite the fact they're the same size and have more features than old Ties, they're probably still faster and more maneuverable.

[Connor MacLeod]

Regarding technological development -

Progress is incredibly glacial and difficult to do (and when it does occur, it usually occurs along very specific patterns - ie changing the scale of an object, or the application.) But that's not the same thing as saying NO progress occurs.

The Death star is in fact canon proof of "technological development." (the evolution from the Great Weapon to the DS1 to the DS2.) That's canon fucking fact right there.

- regarding number of laser cannons.

This is an idiotic thing to be arguing about. Number of weapons is hardly a sole determinant of capability. The Predator's cannons are mounted externally, not inside the cockpit ball (the TIE's lasers are.) - you can even see the rectangular boxes they stick out from attached to the ball for fuck's sake! And going by the OT:ICS entry for the TIE fighter, those guns aren't all that large (arguably the aethersprite's lasers are somewhat larger. The lasers on a Delta-7 are even smaller, going by ROTS.)

And even if its smaller, that doesn't say anything about its firepower without knowing about its other capabilities (effective range, for example.)

Internal volume: Going by ICS scalings (comparing the TIE ball cockpit from the OT:ICS and ignoring the wings and the rear of the ship) to the Delta-7, there's not a great deal of difference in volume. (As Fteik points out, the Actis is even tinier, although it doesn't have combat shields or hyperdrive.) The V-wing is actually somewhat more massive (not alot), but does mount both shields and hyperdrive (according to the ROTS:VD anyhow. )

Of course, like with the laser cannons, saying it "mounts a hyperdrive" doesn't say alot about its performance qualities. You can mount a hyperdrive into message pods far smaller than a man and that can be carried by a couple of guys, after all.

[Connor MacLeod]

Tiny stuff, they look even smaller than the bullpup TIE/ln laser cannons. The placement is somewhat odd. Although it could track up to four targets - if the Predator have that capability - the placement blocks vision when you fire. When I played The Darkening, I preferred the second best fighter in the game due to better weapons placement than the best fighter.

The laser cannons appear to be extenrally mounted around the ball cockpit rather than internally mounted (like the TIe laser cannons..which, I should note, are mounted just above the fuel tank...) In comparison to the ball cockpit, (and disregarding the Actis and aethersprite laser cannons, especially since the latter is effetively quad guns.) those lasers don't appear all that much smaller.

[Stark]

So you know the lasers are just the stubby barrels and the boxy-bits... how? The TIE guns occupy some internal volume: aside from the 'right in the cockpit' issue, what's to say these don't too?

And isn't calling 'changing a design' technological development a bit strange? Were any new technologies developed between the GW and the DS?

I agree with your hyperspace commet - 'hyperspace capable' doesn't say anything about range or speed. I'm simply confident that they'll be zipping around the galaxy at respectable speeds like Xwings.

[Stofsk]

The Predator's cannons are mounted externally, not inside the cockpit ball (the TIE's lasers are.) - you can even see the rectangular boxes they stick out from attached to the ball for fuck's sake!

It would be cool if those cannons act like turrets, and can swivel around with auto-tracking targets.

The box like protrusion might have that sort of purpose. Or it could just be stylistic. But one can hope!

[Connor MacLeod]

So you know the lasers are just the stubby barrels and the boxy-bits... how? The TIE guns occupy some internal volume: aside from the 'right in the cockpit' issue, what's to say these don't too?

I don't. I'm being conservative and going just BY the boxy bits. If we assume there are internal components, that just makes the guns bigger.

And isn't calling 'changing a design' technological development a bit strange? Were any new technologies developed between the GW and the DS?

I never said anything about inventing new technologies. I said that Progress is incredibly glacial and difficult to do (and when it does occur, it usually occurs along very specific patterns - ie changing the scale of an object, or the application.)

In case you're incapable of grasping what that means, I just basically pointed out (and this is the same point basically noted in the AOTC:ICS, page 15. You can make something bigger and more powerful, more compact, more efficient, or find new and interesting ways to apply the technology, but its still the same fucking technology.) The Great Weapon (and the Death Star iterations) are perfect examples of this.

I agree with your hyperspace commet - 'hyperspace capable' doesn't say anything about range or speed. I'm simply confident that they'll be zipping around the galaxy at respectable speeds like Xwings.

Speed is not the only factor, since you also have to consider range, operational duration, navigational capabilities, etc. Its quite possible for a compact hyperdrive to have "repsectable speeds" like X-wings over a very short distance (Much of the Pre-War Republican Navy involved locally-stationed warships with short-ranged hyperdrives.)

[Connor MacLeod]

The Predator's cannons are mounted externally, not inside the cockpit ball (the TIE's lasers are.) - you can even see the rectangular boxes they stick out from attached to the ball for fuck's sake!

It would be cool if those cannons act like turrets, and can swivel around with auto-tracking targets.

The box like protrusion might have that sort of purpose. Or it could just be stylistic. But one can hope!

Maybe, although that would be counter-productive if they need any kind of recoil bracing (kilotons of energy through any sort of gun generates alot of recoil - another reason why I say "size will depend on the performance characteristics of the gun.) Of course there's still the "off-axis" firing capability.

[Spartan]

You know having read the first two issues now, its not so bad. Not great by any stretch, but there are some pretty cool elements. I like the Imperial Knights, that a cool concept. The new Sith are nicely varied and not EVIL!!! TM. The imperials are very cool I love all their character designs. But Jedi costume designs are crap, as is Krayt vong armor. And what is up with those Sith names, next up Darth Bob...

I don't have a problem with multiple Sithlords. The rule of two was assine anyway. The Sith Empire had multiple, Palpatine have numerous force sensitive followers, etc. All, that is needed is a leader, who is to strong or charismatic to be challenged directly. The whole you could never get three Sith Lords to work together...."Because their EVIL!!!" is bunk.

[FTeik]

Wasn't it an old roman senator, who said: "The highest power can't be shared."?

Being a Sith means going for the top of the food-chain, which means that internal conflict inside any kind of Sith-order will be inevitable.

[Spartan]

True enough but its sure funny, how Hitler, Saddam, Stalin, insert your totalitatian dictator here.... All manage to maintain power despite having equally, evil and more powerful men on the payroll.

PS. Darth Bob could only ever be played by Bill Murray. And that's a fact Jack!

[Ghost Rider]

True enough but its sure funny, how Hitler, Saddam, Stalin, insert your totalitatian dictator here.... All manage to maintain power despite having equally, evil and more powerful men on the payroll.

PS. Darth Bob could only ever be played by Bill Murray. And that's a fact Jack!

That's because they generally killed those who even came close to opposing them.

Literally having a entire dogma that is centered around "Strongest rules"...I nor anyone with half a brain would keep rivals. Palpatine's dark siders were weak and insignificant...all he worried was Vader.

Unless some future issue show Krayt as being Wankatine and the others are not even Mara level, it's still smacks of stupid pointless plot because someone wanted 101 flavors of Sith.

[VT-16]

The interesting thing about this system, is that it seems as if Krayt organized his followers into different professions. Some are healers and magicians, some are assassins and berserkers, others are spies and interregators. Seems he's only allowed each one to learn some Sith techniques, but not all of them. :)

[Spartan]

Ghost Rider wrote:

That's because they generally killed those who even came close to opposing them.

The Roman Empire and most absolute monarchies had the concept of divine right, and rule by strength. Yet, a suprizing number of those rulers died of old age.

Literally having a entire dogma that is centered around "Strongest rules"...I nor anyone with half a brain would keep rivals. Palpatine's dark siders were weak and insignificant...all he worried was Vader.

Inquisitor Jerec was powerful as well, Sidious took active steps to curtail his power. Jorrus was powerful, so Sidious marooned him on Wayland, etc. Not all of Sidious pawns were weaklings.

Unless some future issue show Krayt as being Wankatine and the others are not even Mara level, it's still smacks of stupid pointless plot because someone wanted 101 flavors of Sith.

So, far though the other Sith do appear to be much weaker than Krayt. I see your point, but if the master was strong enough couldn't fear of him prevent his students from trying to over throw him? A savy leader could play them against each other. It work with the Moff's after all.

[Ender]

So does anyone doubt Kryat is Jacen?

[Ghost Rider]

So does anyone doubt Kryat is Jacen?

I'm hoping that it isn't....but honestly I can't. It makes me feel more blah about the entire thing. I've gotten issue 0 and 1 in my folder, and really nothing grabbed me.

Issue 0 was literally "Let's show that this series will have some 18+ mains that we want to give a small history upon!"...something that given this isn't a team book, I feel very wary about.

Issue 1 was "Damn, umm...so how stupid are you now rating us.....and no, -11 doesn't count."

[Spartan]

Ender wrote:

So does anyone doubt Kryat is Jacen?

Nope. The plot thins as it were.

[000]

I'm fairly sure he isn't Jacen. At this point, A'Sharad Hett is the most likely suspect if Krayt is an alias for a previously established character.