David Brin AGAIN...

[Ted C]

And this time he's decided to make The Two Towers into the object of his ire, although he couldn't resist taking some potshots at George Lucas in the process. I guess he's got a policy of attacking anyone whose stories are more popular than his own...

http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2002/1 ... dex.html?x

[Sir Sirius]

Who's David Brin?

[Sir Sirius]

Never mind, I found the answer at the bottom of that moronic article.

[NecronLord]

I was going to keep this from you guys but I saw a "Foundation" book by Brin the other day Authorised by "The estate of" Asimov. I think Asimov himself would look on the guy with disdain.

[Talloway]

At the risk of usurping the "rightful powers of my betters", I have a few comments

Consider the rings. Those man-made wonders are deemed cursed, damning anyone who dares to use them, especially those nine normal humans who tried to rise up, using tools to equalize and then usurp the rightful powers of their betters -- the High Elves.

1. Elves are not higher than men; they are just older and different. I gues David missed that whole thing about Men taking over Middle Earth and Elves fading away.

2. At exactly what point did the men involved try to usurp the powers of the Elves? The Witch-King set up Angmar, and attacked Arnor, a kingdom of men.

3. The rings are not man-made. They are Elf-made, and dominated by Sauron's ring, whose advice was critical in their creation. This is one of those "deal with the devil" situations, not the "technology is bad thing" Dave is making it out to be. This would be a pissy nitpick if he didn't go off on the next page about how the Elves were bad for making the rings in order to preserve the world. So, if you use a tool made for a bad purpose by (as Dave claims) bad people, should you be surprised that something bad happens?

4. Sauron hand-picked who would get the rings. It's not like they stumbled across them, but were picked for their power and susceptibility to being corrupted It's that deal with the devil thing again.

5. Frodo Baggins and Sam Gamgee were neither "damned" nor "cursed" by the One Ring, the worst of the lot, until they began working against it. The Ring knew they were taking it to Mt. Doom to be destroyed, and it constantly wore down Frodo and Sam and tried to be captured to be taken back to Sauron. Strength of character counts for something with Tolkien.

The only other thing I wanted to say relates to his "How would Sauron have put things?" section, where he asks why Sauron is just so gosh-darned ugly when he was so powerful. Davy, it's in The Silmarillion, the book you cite and claim to have read. And did Sauron's allies think they were fighting for a good cause? Why, gosh, yes, it's right there in the text. Or did you think that Sauruman inflaming old hatred of the Dunlendings against the Rohirrim wasn't seen as a justifiable greivance, or the Haradrim's ages-old fued with Gondor? Lying bad. Truth good. Another thing in LotR that Dave missed.

[Andrew J.]

This guy over-analyzes things way too much. Jis only good point is that he apparently sticks only with extremely popular movies. I shudder to think what he'd to a Godzilla movie...

[Peregrin Toker]

I shudder to think what he'd to a Godzilla movie...

I doubt he'd analyse a Godzilla flick, since monster movies aren't meant to be taken seriously.

[neoolong]

I shudder to think what he'd to a Godzilla movie...

I doubt he'd analyse a Godzilla flick, since monster movies aren't meant to be taken seriously.

Somehow I don't think that would matter if he figured out that they are more popular than his stuff.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Yes, but Daikaiju films have soul...

Something Davey Brinny here obviously lacks.

Jesus, will he ever just shut the hell up? Why must he keep analising and comment on stuff he has absolutely no hope of understanding.

[NecronLord]

Here are some quotes for brin regarding Sauron and what he looks like...

for he could assume many forms, and for long if he willed he could still appear noble and beautiful

Therefore he took upon himself the form of a warewold and made himself the mightiest that had yet walked the world;

Then sauron shifted shape, from wolf to serpent, and from monster to his own accustomed form;

Sauron is a shape-shifter, as brin would know if he bothered to do some research. The sauron in the film may or may not be how Tolkien Imagined him, but if you were going into battle wouldn't you take on an intimidating form?

Vanquished but still revered by the innumerable poor and oppressed who sit in their squalid huts, wary of the royal secret police with their magical spy-eyes, yet continuing to whisper stories, secretly dreaming and hoping that someday he will return ... bringing more rings.

But wait who are the characters known to have Palantir?

The witch king (Nazgul #1)
Saruman

and

Sauron.

You are heirs of the world's first true civilization, arising out of the first true revolution. Take some pride in it.

This would be Rome? and the Secession?

Or the Aincient Egyptian strike in the Old Kingdom?

Nope. Brin is an idiot... He means the renaisannce?

As for his comments about the romantic poets. Brin would be one of these idiots that thinks the industrial revouloution was a nice time to live in

[neoolong]

I haven't read all the books yet, but from the movie I was under the impression that Sauron and Saruman had spies, not the "good guys."

[NecronLord]

Sauron's army was the one that included every species and race on Middle Earth

Except

• Elves
  
  Eagles
  
  Hobbits
  
  Ents

[NecronLord]

I haven't read all the books yet, but from the movie I was under the impression that Sauron and Saruman had spies, not the "good guys."

Indeed birds, beasts, the guy in bree whose name i forget...

Brin is taking the fact that men made the palantir and blowing it way out of proportion. Only the seriously strong willed (See above) can fully utilise them, otherwise they can only see what is near another. Spoiler for TTT when Pippin looks into the palantir from Isengard he immediately sees the witch king and Barad-dur and is interrogated by Sauron. and, more amusingly Sauron thinks he is a servent of Saruman, and berates him for Saruman's uselessness

[NecronLord]

NOOOOOOO!!!!!!

There is a new evil in the universe!

Brin is now writing Trek!!!

TNG era Trek + Brin = Uber Crap of Doom

To the bunker!!

http://www.davidbrin.com/games.html#forgive

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I don't think I'll even bother reading it, since I know Brinny's wrong by default (especially if he says that LOTR is an analogy to something: it isn't).

There's also the fact that every criticism of his I've read has left me being pissed off.

So Davey, here's a default Fuck You.

[NecronLord]

No it's not a critique of trek, that I could Ignore. He is now WRITING trek *shudder*

[neoolong]

With approval from Paramount Pictures and DC Comics, Wildstorm Entertainment asked me to script this canonical look at an adventure of the USS Enterprise that fans should find vivid, exciting, fun... and maybe a little stimulating to the mind, as well.

Now that's a damn lie.[/quote]

[NecronLord]

The title of my new novel -- the most original thing I've done in years -- is Kiln People, which was published by Tor Books in January 2002.

Take the notion of golems -- temporary clay people (not clones!) -- and now imagine a near future when everybody can make them. Using a "home copier" you ditto your memories -- perhaps even a genuine imprint of your soul -- and off goes the duplicate to run your errands, attend your classes, or do all the drudgery work. Then, at day's end, you download the golem's memories.

No shit. Iain Banks had this in the culture books a long time ago...

Startling originality.

[Master of Ossus]

And this time he's decided to make The Two Towers into the object of his ire, although he couldn't resist taking some potshots at George Lucas in the process. I guess he's got a policy of attacking anyone whose stories are more popular than his own...

http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2002/1 ... dex.html?x

One wonders why he doesn't go after Kevin Costner for butchering his book into a horrible movie that is merely a shadow of the original plot.

[willburns84]

And this time he's decided to make The Two Towers into the object of his ire, although he couldn't resist taking some potshots at George Lucas in the process. I guess he's got a policy of attacking anyone whose stories are more popular than his own...

http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2002/1 ... dex.html?x

One wonders why he doesn't go after Kevin Costner for butchering his book into a horrible movie that is merely a shadow of the original plot.

Politics and moolah, I'm sure. I wonder how much David Brin got for the movie rights? If someone paid me x amount of money, which was probably more than I made selling the book to the public in the first place, I'd probably say "Turn into a porn flick for all I care!"

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

Perhaps Brin should stop attacking stories that are more popular than his and write something good. If he spent as much time writing books as he did attacking Geroge Lucas, he'd have a novel the size of Gone With the Wind.

[Hotfoot]

Perhaps Brin should stop attacking stories that are more popular than his and write something good. If he spent as much time writing books as he did attacking Geroge Lucas, he'd have a novel the size of Gone With the Wind.

Yeah, but who'd want to read another Battlefield Earth?

[Marcus]

The sad thing is, I actually do like Brin's Sci-Fi.

However, he and Card seem to suffer from the same disease... they consider themselves the true holders of 'real' Sci-Fi, and everyone else to be pandering populists.

Wonder if they ever read anything from "Amazing Stories" or "Wierd Tales", the roots of their so-elitist genre.

[Xon]

NOOOOOOO!!!!!!

There is a new evil in the universe!

Brin is now writing Trek!!!

TNG era Trek + Brin = Uber Crap of Doom

Would you prefer Dumb&Dumber over David Brin if he was allowed to write the stories for Startrek shows?

Its a choice of the lesser evil.

Anyway its not like Trek novels are canon.

[Master of Ossus]

To be honest, guys, I don't see that this article is nearly as bad as his SW articles. In this one he presents a clear perspective, in a coherent and reasonably honest manner. The problem with his SW articles was that he was willing to twist the truth in order to advance his objectives. This one's not nearly so bad.