Darth Wong's Israel bashing

[NecronLord]

Every idiot who seeks to discredit...

Ad hominem attacks Darth Wong? Why not discuss the merit of the arguments I bring up?

Get your fill of sci-fi, science, and mockery of stupid people

that essay always assumes that it claims Palestine is morally flawless, that Palestine and all Arab nations should be treated as a monolithic group

I never said such a thing!! On the contrary, you have successfully painted Israel as a morally corrupt country since Biblical times (Amazing considering Israel was almost virtually destroyed by the Romans and afterwards the Ottomans) You are guilty of claiming that Israel has only done wrong, and nothing but wrong. You claim you have nothing against the Jewish race, and then go on to bash the Jewish race. You say they are an expansionist military facist state, yet at the same time say, at least, nominally democracy. And you completely fail to point out Israel has given back a lot of territory taken in armed conflict through peace negotiations. Your comments are racist and full of unsubstantiated propoganda. And you try to guess the ulterior motives of actions where there was a clear motive of self-defense. And I stated clearly several times, Israel is not perfect, it has its flaws, but as I said, and is clearly true, it is light years better than their Arab neighboring states.

Actually the Isralei's murdered the Roman Garrison... due to... their monotheistic fascism. They brought the Imperium Romanum Smackdown on themselves. It has given a lot of territory back? Detail. Self Defence? Again your arguments boil down to "it is light years better than their Arab neighboring states" No shit sherlock. See the above mention of Nazi Germany and the USSR. Proximity of other reprehensibles is not an excuse.

(because they're the same race; hmmmm ... what does this say about "Nixon" ...)

When did I say that Darth Wong? You're just taking my arguments out of context and making a straw man argument. Is that the best you can say?

"You claim you have nothing against the Jewish race, and then go on to bash the Jewish race" You sir are unable to recognise the difference between the "Jewish race" (though I might add it is a religion, If I convert {perish the thought} to Judaism do I become a member of said race?

and performs the bait-and-switch of refuting comments about Palestinians living in the race-ghetto of the occupied territories with Palestinians living outside the race-ghetto, even though the article takes pains to point out the difference (and the fact that this distinction is the loophole the Israelis use to excuse their own behaviour).

And you painstakenly ignore all the food and aid that has gone to these "race-ghetto" as you call them, with Israel herself donating, but with Yasser Arafat being the depost that he is, has not let his own people get that aid and now has millions of dollars in a European bank account. The charities have been pouring in, pouring into Yasser Arafact and Hamas and Hezbollah. You completely make the issue one-sided, and CONSISTENTLY ignore attempts by Israel to make peace and rectifiy the situation.

I see, Arafat is a despot? behold his Instruments of despotism.

Even in the "after" picture he is still using his Stormtroopers of death?

It is a rather pitiful comment on the state of reading comprehension in North America that this is the most common "rebuttal". Perhaps if they taught people how to read in school ...

That's just lazy Darth Wong. Can you try any better?

You are not worthy

You say Israel is a fascist military state and compare to "Starship Troopers" because those who serve receive special rights. Which doesn't make sense considering all Israeli citizens serve in the military, male and female, so by that criteria, no one can receive any more special rights than any other person since every citizen serves. Plus you ignore the fact that in the US, Veterans receive special rights and everyone in this country DOES NOT serve in the military. Seems like by your argument the US is more of Facist military state than Israel.

Define

But hey, I'll take the high ground and not call you an idiot.

That is the one wise thing you have done in this thread..

[Sir Sirius]

Very often attacks are launched from civilian housing or are carried out by the average Palestinian.

So the average Palestinian is a terrorist? I think that statement makes you a R...

Bombs have to be strapped on somewhere, terrorists have to organize on someone's table, the civilians are not innocent in all this. Directly or indirectly they support what goes on.

Im willing to bet that terrorists have houses and tables as well.
And you are yet again just trying to vilify the Palestinians to justify their oppression by Isreal, sounds an afwul lot like what the Nazis, KKK, the goverment of South-Africa back in the "good old days" of apartheid and every single other racist organization throughout history has tried to do. Hate mongers will always find a reason to justify and rationalize their hatred, their's nothing new about that.
There is no justification for attrocities.

btw, if Israel were out to kill all the Palestinians all I can say is that they are doing a lousy job of it so far.

Ethnic cleansing doesn't necesarily involve genocide, driving people out of their homes because of their ethnic background is ethnic cleansing as well and that is precisely what Israel is doing right now.

[Yogi]

Nice article Nixon.

Unfortunatly, Darth Wong knows his logic is absolutely correct and cannot be flawed, so arguing against him is quite futile. You can concede now, or you can be given a degrading custom title and/or run off the forum.

If that were the case, I would have run your ass out of here a long time ago, asshole.

Given that you didn't adress the actual points in his rebuttle, the amount of legs you have to stand on are getting lower.

[Falcon]

So the average Palestinian is a terrorist? I think that statement makes you a R...

Look at the people who suicide bomb, many of them are average kids recruited off the streets either with propaganda or money (to their families). I guess R must stand for Realist...

Im willing to bet that terrorists have houses and tables as well.
And you are yet again just trying to vilify the Palestinians to justify their oppression by Isreal, sounds an afwul lot like what the Nazis, KKK, the goverment of South-Africa back in the "good old days" of apartheid and every single other racist organization throughout history has tried to do. Hate mongers will always find a reason to justify and rationalize their hatred, their's nothing new about that.
There is no justification for attrocities.

I'm not trying to vilify the Palestinians, they are doing that adequately on their own. The Nazis, KKK, and apartide governments mostly fabricated their claims against their targets, this is not the case here. The Palestianians have killed hundreds of Israeli citizens randomly irrespecitive of women or children. In fact they often target these people. If all the Palestianians did was target military personal you might have a little more room to talk, but this is not the case.

Ethnic cleansing doesn't necesarily involve genocide, driving people out of their homes because of their ethnic background is ethnic cleansing as well and that is precisely what Israel is doing right now.

What do you call the tactics that the Palestianians and their Arab allies are using against Israel? Its no secret that they want to see Israel cease to exist and the more dead Jews the better. At least Israel has shown that it will live in peace if it can, because even if it didn't want to, it has so few people that it has to. You are so one sidedly biased its sickening.

[Phil Skayhan]

I would feel greater symathy for the Israeli side if they were not pursuing a policy of building what I can only regard as illegal settlements on the occupied territories. Do you truly believe that Israel intends to ever relinquish these territories?

[Sir Sirius]

Look at the people who suicide bomb, many of them are average kids recruited off the streets either with propaganda or money (to their families).

The fact still remains that overwhelmingly vast majority of Palestinians are not terrorists.

I guess R must stand for Realist...

Actualy it stands for Racist.

I'm not trying to vilify the Palestinians, they are doing that adequately on their own.

Yes you are, some, a very small minority, Palestinians just make the job easier for you by commiting terrorists strikes, but you choose to judge a whole ethnic group based on the actions of a few of it's members.

The Nazis, KKK, and apartide governments mostly fabricated their claims against their targets, this is not the case here.

But you do generalize all Palestinians as terrorist based on the actions of a few Palestinians.

The Palestianians have killed hundreds of Israeli citizens randomly irrespecitive of women or children. In fact they often target these people.

You are yet again showing your true colours by using "palestinian" as a synonym for "terrorists".

If all the Palestianians did was target military personal you might have a little more room to talk, but this is not the case.

And again the same racist statement.

What do you call the tactics that the Palestianians and their Arab allies are using against Israel?

And for the third time in a single post, huraa Falcon, truly a proud achiefment. Two wrongs don't make a right. What some Palestinians might do to Israel if they could does not justify Israels actions or absolve Israel of the attrocities it has committed

Its no secret that they want to see Israel cease to exist and the more dead Jews the better.

"They"? Do i even have to ask who "they" is?

At least Israel has shown that it will live in peace if it can, because even if it didn't want to, it has so few people that it has to.

When and how has Israel show this? By their continued defiance of U.N. resolutions? By continuing the occuparion of the occupied terretories? By oppressing the Palestinians and by adopting an apartheid policy?

You are so one sidedly biased its sickening.

Biased against what? I hold no love for Yesser Arafat or the terrorists, but the fact remains that there is nothing either of them could do that would justify Israels treatment of the palestines. You on the other hand are openly racist.

[HemlockGrey]

I love how all the rabidly pro-Israel, anti-Palestinian people use 'they' and 'the Palestinians' as a synonm for 'terrorist'. You can't trust 'them'. 'They' won't stop until all the Jews are dead. 'They' deserve it. You're being fooled by 'their' propoganda.

[fgalkin]

I realize I may be biased, but how exactly do you propose to differentiate terrorists and civilians? I'm not saying that what Israel is doing is right, but I see the logic in doing that.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Falcon]

The fact still remains that overwhelmingly vast majority of Palestinians are not terrorists.

What, like the vast majority of Southerners wern't Confederates, or the vast number of Russians wern't Soviets, or the vast numbers of Germans wern't Nazis? Guess what, we bombed Germany into a ash heap, Sherman burned Georgia to the ground, America starved and spent the Soviets into oblivian. Those terrorists wouldn't be there if not for the support of the general public, it doesn't matter if each and every one of them picks up a gun, what matters is that the aid and comfort is drawn from the Palestinian people.

Actualy it stands for Racist.

Thats absurd, my best friend is a Korean, I have many other friends and associates who are of various races including arabs. Of course you couldn't know that, but it shows just how blindedly biased you are to go around making assumptions about someone you've never met.

Yes you are, some, a very small minority, Palestinians just make the job easier for you by commiting terrorists strikes, but you choose to judge a whole ethnic group based on the actions of a few of it's members.

I am certianly not making that distinction about an entire ethinic group, just those who are actively engaging in the acts of violence described.

But you do generalize all Palestinians as terrorist based on the actions of a few Palestinians.

Just like we generalize about the Nazi's, the Soviets, the [insert group here]. Was every German in 1939 a Nazi? Of course not, but the entire German nation still got branded with the same label. Was every Japanese a supporter of the attack on Perl Harbor? Of course not, but they got put in internment camps just the same. The innocent get swept along with the supporters and perpertrators of acts, the fault lies not with those who point out the group responsible, but with that group. You arguement thus far is that since not every single Palestinian is a terrorist(supporter) that we cannot talk about the general level of Palestinian support and involvement in terrorism. That won't hold water.

You are yet again showing your true colours by using "palestinian" as a synonym for "terrorists".

Tell me, how many non - Palestinian terrorists are involved in attacks on Israel? In World War II we used Nazi as a synonym for German, but no one had a fit over that.

And for the third time in a single post, huraa Falcon, truly a proud achiefment. Two wrongs don't make a right. What some Palestinians might do to Israel if they could does not justify Israels actions or absolve Israel of the attrocities it has committed

I was pointing out a double standard on your part, not justifying every action that Israel has ever taken.

They"? Do i even have to ask who "they" is?

Not just palestinians...

When and how has Israel show this? By their continued defiance of U.N. resolutions? By continuing the occuparion of the occupied terretories? By oppressing the Palestinians and by adopting an apartheid policy?

This has all been responded to before(not by me), read up, I don't feel like repeating it again simply because you don't want to read something.

Biased against what? I hold no love for Yesser Arafat or the terrorists, but the fact remains that there is nothing either of them could do that would justify Israels treatment of the palestines. You on the other hand are openly racist.

You are willingfully ignorent, Israel hasn't done anything except try to stim the tide of radical misguided people swarming into their streets and blowing their children apart. They might not have a spotless past, but they have shown far more reason than the people fighting them.

[Darth Wong]

Israel apologist "logic" goes like this:

1) "Some Palestinians are terrorists. That means it's OK to violate the Geneva Convention, shoot 10 years olds for throwing rocks, bulldoze homes, etc."

2) "The PLO/PA is a bad organization. This means it's OK to violate the Geneva Convention, shoot 10 year olds for throwing rocks, bulldoze homes, etc."

3) "Many neighbouring nations have said or done bad things. They're Arabs. Palestinians are also Arabs. This means it's OK to violate the Geneva Convention, shoot 10 year olds for throwing rocks, bulldoze homes, etc."

4) "Some guy in a neighbouring nation said something really bad about Israel. He was an Arab. Palestinians are Arabs. This means it's OK to violate the Geneva Convention, shoot 10 year olds for throwing rocks, bulldoze homes, etc."

5) "Holocaust. This means it's OK to violate the Geneva Convention, shoot 10 year olds for throwing rocks, bulldoze homes, etc."

6) "Israel has repeatedly offered a form of "peace" which looks suspiciously like perpetual occupation under Israeli overlordship. Palestinians have refused. Therefore, they must all be hatemongers. Therefore, it's OK to violate the Geneva Convention, shoot 10 year olds for throwing rocks, bulldoze homes, etc."

7) "You don't like Israel. Israel is full of Jews. Therefore, you're an anti-Semite. So start liking Israel, or I'll liken you to Hitler."

Is that all of the common points? I think so.

[Falcon]

Israel apologist "logic" goes like this:

1) "Some Palestinians are terrorists. That means it's OK to violate the Geneva Convention, shoot 10 years olds for throwing rocks, bulldoze homes, etc."

2) "The PLO/PA is a bad organization. This means it's OK to violate the Geneva Convention, shoot 10 year olds for throwing rocks, bulldoze homes, etc."

I assume this means you whole heartedly condemn the Vietcong who used children as soldiers, and you condemn the suicide bombers who target Israeli children at birthday parties, etc... You don't seem to understand, this isn't about justifing Israel as much as it is about condemning the apalling tactics and targets used by some fanatical Palestinians.

4) "Some guy in a neighbouring nation said something really bad about Israel. He was an Arab. Palestinians are Arabs. This means it's OK to violate the Geneva Convention, shoot 10 year olds for throwing rocks, bulldoze homes, etc."

5) "Holocaust. This means it's OK to violate the Geneva Convention, shoot 10 year olds for throwing rocks, bulldoze homes, etc."

These are unjustified, inflammatory, and misleading. The Holocaust and someone talking have little\nothing to do with things as they are today. Its ironic to note that in most arabian nations they don't have free speech or press anyway.

6) "Israel has repeatedly offered a form of "peace" which looks suspiciously like perpetual occupation under Israeli overlordship. Palestinians have refused. Therefore, they must all be hatemongers. Therefore, it's OK to violate the Geneva Convention, shoot 10 year olds for throwing rocks, bulldoze homes, etc."

The biggest part of the disagreement is over Jerusalem, both sides want it all, both can't have it all.

Flip side: Palestinians have offered to make peace, but peace looks a lot like the destruction of the Israeli nation, therefor it is OK to blow up as many Jews as possible with suicide bombers...

7) "You don't like Israel. Israel is full of Jews. Therefore, you're an anti-Semite. So start liking Israel, or I'll liken you to Hitler."

Is that all of the common points? I think so.

Sounds like you're running out of substance...

[Darth Wong]

Sounds like you're resorting to the strawman claim that I think no Palestinian has ever done anything wrong. Introducing the Viet Cong is merely another example of your hidebound refusal to debate rationally, as they have nothing to do with this, or with me.

[Durandal]

Flip side: Palestinians have offered to make peace, but peace looks a lot like the destruction of the Israeli nation, therefor it is OK to blow up as many Jews as possible with suicide bombers...

Destroying a nation that wants to exclude everyone else and become a nation only for people of a certain religion?! That's horrible!

[Falcon]

Sounds like you're resorting to the strawman claim that I think no Palestinian has ever done anything wrong. Introducing the Viet Cong is merely another example of your hidebound refusal to debate rationally, as they have nothing to do with this, or with me.

Your long winded article does nothing for fairness or balance, the arguements you use to condemn Israel could often be used to condemn Palestine. Why not simply be balanced and point out where both are flawed, then possibly suggest a solution to the problem. No, you'd rather do a hit piece on Israel...

[Darth Wong]

Liar. Read the article again, and see where I point out that the PLO/PA is hopelessly corrupt, and that I do not support terrorism. I am not responsible for your contemptibly poor reading comprehension.

[Falcon]

Liar. Read the article again, and see where I point out that the PLO/PA is hopelessly corrupt, and that I do not support terrorism. I am not responsible for your contemptibly poor reading comprehension.

As side notes, you don't support terrorism and you think the PLO is corrupt. You don't go into detailed discussion of their tactics and why they are wrong, or anything at all paralleling your detailed hit on Israel. Giving something lip service isn't the same as 'equal time'

[HemlockGrey]

As side notes, you don't support terrorism and you think the PLO is corrupt. You don't go into detailed discussion of their tactics and why they are wrong, or anything at all paralleling your detailed hit on Israel. Giving something lip service isn't the same as 'equal time'

You're a fucking moron. The point of the article was to illuminate Israel's flaws and dispell some of the common myths. We get enough 'Pales are all evil!' type coverage in the news.

[Wicked Pilot]

Palesteinens are ragheads, sand monkeys, desert niggers, etc. Of course it's OK to kill them. What are you people talking about? I mean I know the Jews are fucked up, after all they killed off Jesus, but they're not as bad as the Muslims. I say kill them all, let them meet Allah in Hell!

[Falcon]

As side notes, you don't support terrorism and you think the PLO is corrupt. You don't go into detailed discussion of their tactics and why they are wrong, or anything at all paralleling your detailed hit on Israel. Giving something lip service isn't the same as 'equal time'

You're a fucking moron. The point of the article was to illuminate Israel's flaws and dispell some of the common myths. We get enough 'Pales are all evil!' type coverage in the news.

I'm glad you can see how one sided it was...

[Andrew J.]

As side notes, you don't support terrorism and you think the PLO is corrupt. You don't go into detailed discussion of their tactics and why they are wrong, or anything at all paralleling your detailed hit on Israel. Giving something lip service isn't the same as 'equal time'

You're a fucking moron. The point of the article was to illuminate Israel's flaws and dispell some of the common myths. We get enough 'Pales are all evil!' type coverage in the news.

I'm glad you can see how one sided it was...

Now, do you see why it being one-sided isn't a flaw?

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

You don't get it, do you, Falcon?

It is not necessarily the job of an article to tell all the sides. With humans of limited knowledge trying to write an article of finite size, that doesn't really work.

The media has already tilted our minds to Israel (let's call that port) by "flooding" our minds. Wong wants to try and level the boat. So he pumps some new water (information) into the starboard side and tries to transfer some of the water from port to starboard.

He also does a little trimming, so the boat comes out level (at least he tries to, whether it is now really level is up to each individual to decide.) Then Falcon comes out and wonders why he doesn't pump as much water into the port side as he does to starboard. Could it be, say, because someone else had pumped a lot of water into the port side ALREADY?

Not a great analogy (I'm really quite poor at them,) but try and look for the similarities instead of the differences.

[Falcon]

[quote="Andrew JNow, do you see why it being one-sided isn't a flaw?[/quote]


It being so blatently one sided lowers it to the level of propaganda, especially considering parts of it are simply untrue or misleading (see origional post(s)). You missed the point long ago I fear...

[Falcon]

ramblings...

Instead of trying to 'flood' out more shaky information why not try to do a true analysis of both parties, put everything in perspective, and offer solutions. It would be much more effective and informative than a hit piece propaganda article..

[guyver]

Can we all agree that it is all f&*ked up over there. The Palestinians and the Jews are both bad. Who is worse, I have no idea, but I do know that what the Jews call a peacefull solution is not the right answer.

My idea to solve the problem is very easy

1 Remove all nukes from both sides (granted I know the Jews have them and the Palestinians do not).

2 Stop all outside support of both sides.

3 Check back in about 5 years.

One side will win one side will lose.

The end.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Flip side: Palestinians have offered to make peace, but peace looks a lot like the destruction of the Israeli nation, therefor it is OK to blow up as many Jews as possible with suicide bombers...

Destroying a nation that wants to exclude everyone else and become a nation only for people of a certain religion?! That's horrible!

You do realise that Arabs have the right to vote in Israel. Hell, Arabian woman have the right to vote in Israel, where else in the Middle East can that happen?

Christian, Muslims, etc. all have rights under Israel's constitution. In Saudi Arabia you're excuted if you stop believing in Allah. Granted, I don't know if that would happen under a Arabian led Palestinian government, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did. They do share the same culture / religion.

Also, Israel is one of the most secular nations as this comparison chart shows. Another point, the Israeli High Court ruled that it was uncostitutional to enforce Jewish laws against the population as a whole.


So basically, you have on one side Israel, a country founded for the homeland of a certain culture, and to a slightly lesser extent, religion.

On the other hand you have many other nations, where even questioning Allah would get you killed.

I'm not saying either is perfect, but one is clearly better than the other.