"There are no Atheists. They are dying with their shove
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"There are no Atheists. They are dying with their shove
Much like our beloved Iraqi Information Minister, some people just don't understand that people can believe in different things, or choose not to believe in others.
The recent issue of Mt. Solidad Cross in San Diego is an issue I've followed barely, but here's the gist: There's a cross on a public memorial, on state land. This of course, is an issue so there's a suit to have it removed or taken to private land.
Now, enter the right wing assholes. Radio, demogauges at the county faire, etc... All seem to declare this the work of 'supposed' Atheists, and attack the existance of Atheists at all as nothing more than 'whining children who are puffed up at God'.
Who gives them the right to be such immense, 'biblical-scale' pricks? How can anyone not actually legitimately see why there are Atheists to their judeo-christian religion, much in the same way they do not consider Ra, Thor or Zeus actual existing dieties?
The recent issue of Mt. Solidad Cross in San Diego is an issue I've followed barely, but here's the gist: There's a cross on a public memorial, on state land. This of course, is an issue so there's a suit to have it removed or taken to private land.
Now, enter the right wing assholes. Radio, demogauges at the county faire, etc... All seem to declare this the work of 'supposed' Atheists, and attack the existance of Atheists at all as nothing more than 'whining children who are puffed up at God'.
Who gives them the right to be such immense, 'biblical-scale' pricks? How can anyone not actually legitimately see why there are Atheists to their judeo-christian religion, much in the same way they do not consider Ra, Thor or Zeus actual existing dieties?
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In the same way that you start from the assumption that what you perceive via your senses is the real world, these people start from the assumption that God is real and the Bible is his word. They feel about you the same way you would feel about people who denied that gravity existed--clearly it does, so they must be idiots or just denying it for the sake of denying it.
In other words, fundamentalists suffer from a form of insanity.
In other words, fundamentalists suffer from a form of insanity.
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Slightly OT: I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand the context of this.
You say there's a public mamorial on common land, and there's a cross as part of the mamorial. So why would anyone be fighting to remove a public mamorial (presumably a war mamorial, as I can't think of any other type) and what has the existance of a cross got to do with moving it?
You say there's a public mamorial on common land, and there's a cross as part of the mamorial. So why would anyone be fighting to remove a public mamorial (presumably a war mamorial, as I can't think of any other type) and what has the existance of a cross got to do with moving it?
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It's a large cross that's visible for miles on a mountain, on federal land and maintained by federal money. That's the issue at hand. It's of course a war memorial.Talanth wrote:Slightly OT: I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand the context of this.
You say there's a public mamorial on common land, and there's a cross as part of the mamorial. So why would anyone be fighting to remove a public mamorial (presumably a war mamorial, as I can't think of any other type) and what has the existance of a cross got to do with moving it?
Never mind the fact that not all soldiers are Christian...
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How dare you suggest that the soldiers that die too keep our country christian and moral are anything but christian<fundie arsehat>NoXion wrote:Never mind the fact that not all soldiers are Christian...
What I hate is that fundies always see things in two extremes, either you're a christian or you're and atheist.
I still don't see what the problem is with having a cross. We have loads of mamorial crosses around the place here in GB. Admitedly normaly smaller and in the middle of vilages rather than huge and on mountains, but no-one has any problem with them. Quite the opposite in fact.Nephtys wrote:It's a large cross that's visible for miles on a mountain, on federal land and maintained by federal money. That's the issue at hand. It's of course a war memorial.
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No, fundies don't believe in atheists. To them you're either a Christian or you're a Satan worshipper/accomplice.LeftWingExtremist wrote:What I hate is that fundies always see things in two extremes, either you're a christian or you're and atheist.
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Atheist' existance, unlike God's, does not require belief.No, fundies don't believe in atheists
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Sir, your location is listed as Exeter, UK by which I assume you are famillar with the Queen's English. It's memorial, not "mamorial", which conjures up in my mind the image of a giant plastic female breast nailed to a couple of 2x4's and jutting up from the landscape. Not likely outside of Los Angeles, California.Talanth wrote:I still don't see what the problem is with having a cross. We have loads of mamorial crosses around the place here in GB. Admitedly normaly smaller and in the middle of vilages rather than huge and on mountains, but no-one has any problem with them. Quite the opposite in fact.Nephtys wrote:It's a large cross that's visible for miles on a mountain, on federal land and maintained by federal money. That's the issue at hand. It's of course a war memorial.
Anyhow - yes, it's a war memorial. Korean War, specifically. Folks really are getting their panties in a bunch over it, on both sides of the fence. Yes, crosses in public memorials really can be and more and more frequently are a bone of contention here in the US. Apparently not so in Europe where you live. This is a called a "cultural difference".
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Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
That's because we don't have a constitutionally defined separation between church and state (quite the opposite, in fact, the church was annexed by the state some centuries ago and the titular heads of church and state are the same person), and America does.Talanth wrote:I still don't see what the problem is with having a cross. We have loads of mamorial crosses around the place here in GB. Admitedly normaly smaller and in the middle of vilages rather than huge and on mountains, but no-one has any problem with them. Quite the opposite in fact.
A religious symbol maintained by the Federal government in America is a tacit endorsement of one religion over all others, and is therefore not constitutional.
I can see the incredulity though, because although we don't have a constitutional separation from the church, we are as a nation far more secular than America. A cross in England is a long bit with a short bit across the top, and carries pretty much no other connotation for the vast majority.
Sorry. Darned Dyslexia.Broomstick wrote:...which conjures up in my mind the image of a giant plastic female breast nailed to a couple of 2x4's and jutting up from the landscape. Not likely outside of Los Angeles, California.
Interesting image though...
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AFAIK, insanity is a legal rather than psychological term. Psychologically fundies would be 'delusional'. However, the classification of delusional in the DSM-IV states:Pablo Sanchez wrote:In other words, fundamentalists suffer from a form of insanity.
In other words, people in alien cults who believe wacky stuff about conspiracies and suicide-induced mothership-rendezvous are not actually delusional if there's enough of them. Get enough wackos together and they're considered perfectly healthy.Delusion wrote:A false belief based on incorrect inference about external reality that is firmly sustained despite what almost everybody else believes and despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary. The belief is not one ordinarily accepted by other members of the person's culture or subculture (e.g. it is not an article of religious faith).
Robert Gilruth to Max Faget on the Apollo program: “Max, we’re going to go back there one day, and when we do, they’re going to find out how tough it is.”
The words of "The Wise King" come to mind...Winston Blake wrote: In other words, people in alien cults who believe wacky stuff about conspiracies and suicide-induced mothership-rendezvous are not actually delusional if there's enough of them. Get enough wackos together and they're considered perfectly healthy.
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One night when all were asleep, a witch entered the city, and poured seven drops of strange liquid into the well, and said, "From this hour he who drinks this water shall become mad."
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"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
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If I'm only allowed one of those two choices, put me down as Satan worshipper.Lagmonster wrote:No, fundies don't believe in atheists. To them you're either a Christian or you're a Satan worshipper/accomplice.LeftWingExtremist wrote:What I hate is that fundies always see things in two extremes, either you're a christian or you're and atheist.
I wonder if the federal government could have some real fun with these people. While these two groups are fighting over the presence of a cross, screw them both over and replace it with a Star of David or some other religious symbol.
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