Earth Words or Phrases in SW

[Dooey Jo]

Sometimes when they have a pun in a movie or TV program the translators will change the words from what they really mean to preserve the fact that there is a pun, but not the exact meaning of the pun. It's not inconceivable that this is what's going on in the case of the night/knight thing. What's a "Night Hammer" anyway...

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Nothing that I know of. The "pun" is focused more along the whole night/knight thing, anyway. Night Hammer had custom stealth armour installed which made the ship all-black, ergo "night," while Daala changed it to "knight" to connotate the elimination of the Jedi.

[Dooey Jo]

Perhaps the "proper" translation would then be "Dark Hammer" or something like that, and that it's the Basic word for dark that sounds similar to its word for knight.

[General Soontir Fel]

Anyone has access to a translation of Darksaber to see how they handled this?

[18-Till-I-Die]

Is there one single scrap of evidence that referrences the 'Hyperspace Aliens' by name? Where do they come from? I've looked all over Wookiepedia and found jack, as far as i can tell they're a fabrication.

From their story (which i may add, i've only heard from oen or two folks here) they're basically a rip off of the Preservers from ST with the Progenitors and First Ones mixed in for good measure.

Frankly its really weird...supposedly these aliens who have never appeared anywhere else as far as i can tell, teleported humans from i think our Earth to planets in the SW galaxy in the distant past. Then after inventing a bunch of nifty stuff and leaving it as relics all around the galaxy, they vanished without a trace.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

That sounds fantastically lame.

[18-Till-I-Die]

That sounds fantastically lame.

Actually, that was my immediate thought when i first heard it.

EDIT: i THINK now, its meant to imply the Hyperspace Aliens are the Grays.

[Junghalli]

That sounds fantastically lame.

Hence my idea.

[Noble Ire]

Is there one single scrap of evidence that referrences the 'Hyperspace Aliens' by name? Where do they come from? I've looked all over Wookiepedia and found jack, as far as i can tell they're a fabrication.

They're mentioned in the NEGtC, but only as the mysterious builders of artifacts like Centerpoint Station. It's never implied that they have anything to do with the origins of humanity (indeed, it strongly indicates that humans are native to a known planet in the SW galaxy, probably Coruscant); if Wookieepeida says otherwise, it's flat out wrong. Unless, of course, there's some obscure source I'm missing.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

EDIT: i THINK now, its meant to imply the Hyperspace Aliens are the Grays.

Absolutely not.

[000]

The so-called "Hyperspace Aliens" are the Rakata-- at least, according to Voren Na'al. The builders of Centerpoint are a mysterious race referred to variously as the Architects and Celestials.

[18-Till-I-Die]

EDIT: i THINK now, its meant to imply the Hyperspace Aliens are the Grays.

Absolutely not.

Well then, my first instinct is correct and they're a less inventive rip off of the Preservers.


Wookiepedia has no info i can find on the Hyperspace Aliens. As far as i know they're some kind of fan creation. Or at least their involvement in humanity's origins are. Unless, like Ire said, i missed some obscure source.

And yes the idea of magic hyperspace pixies teleporting humans through a time vortex to Corellia, or whatever, is fantastically lame.

Also, hyperspace is just the universe viewed from a tachyonic ship, so i dont know how these Hyperspace Aliens are supposed to be...from Hyperspace...unless they're tachyonic, which would be freaky but kind of cool.

[18-Till-I-Die]

That sounds fantastically lame.

Hence my idea.

Your idea makes the most sense.

I was figuring something like that, a few days ago actually. If the story is being told by R2D2 (i read that somewhere, ont knwo if its fanon or not) then it makes sense.

The fact we're watching it in the present has nothing to do with it. It makes as much sense it being from the future, than being some film from millions of years ago. Both are insane. And besides SoD says we just have to accept that it really happened, it doesnt say we have to assume the film is special or something just that its 'real'.

[Noble Ire]

Also, hyperspace is just the universe viewed from a tachyonic ship, so i dont know how these Hyperspace Aliens are supposed to be...from Hyperspace...unless they're tachyonic, which would be freaky but kind of cool.

I believe the term refers to their legacy, not their actual form. The "Hyperspace Aliens" were responsible for giving certain pre-space civilizations, like the Duro and Humans, wherever they came from, the means to construct hyperdrives of their own. Knowning this, I believe that 000 is correct; after the Rakata Empire collapsed, they did leave a good deal of their tech, among it a form of hyperdrive, on the primative worlds they had enslaved.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Also, hyperspace is just the universe viewed from a tachyonic ship, so i dont know how these Hyperspace Aliens are supposed to be...from Hyperspace...unless they're tachyonic, which would be freaky but kind of cool.

I believe the term refers to their legacy, not their actual form. The "Hyperspace Aliens" were responsible for giving certain pre-space civilizations, like the Duro and Humans, wherever they came from, the means to construct hyperdrives of their own. Knowning this, I believe that 000 is correct; after the Rakata Empire collapsed, they did leave a good deal of their tech, among it a form of hyperdrive, on the primative worlds they had enslaved.

Yes but the Rakata only had a tiny, tiny Empire.

I think it was like a thousand worlds or something, with a few trillion slaves and people. In fact they're probably bullshitting. There is some item i was told about from an SW RPG (maybe one of the video games) when we were discussing the Rakata once...a bracelet to ward off the 'lying' powers of a race of 'interstellar baragarts' who claimed to have been involved in every important event in history, though were actually very primitive IIRC.

If these 'Hyperspace Aliens' exist at all, it seems that it'd be like the Celestials or whoever, someone really old and really powerful who are gone now.

Which would STILL make them lame, since they oviously sucked enough to die out despite their technology.


Edit: the bracelet was called the 'Rakatan Band' or some such. It referrenced them specifically as the liar race. Go figure.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Snip stuff

Basically, it's a combination of you missing stuff, forgetting stuff, and trying to piece together a rough version of what you think it was based on those two criteria.

So in effect, like has been seen in other cases on the board, you really didn't know what the hell you were talking about.

....

And yes, most of it is a fan theory, which something I've always been free to admit.

[Noble Ire]

Yes but the Rakata only had a tiny, tiny Empire.

It doesn't matter. Using their "genetic" Force affinity to navigate through hyperspace, they seem to have established colonies on the homeworlds of a great many of the oldest space faring races of the Old Republic. All they had to do was leave a few hyperdrives on a few of the right worlds when their Empire collapsed, and in a few hundred or thousand years, these once slave races are spreading their seed and their tech throughout the galaxy.

And the bracelet thing is from some flavor text for a clothing item in KOTOR. It did imply that the Rakata were decievers, but that could mean virtually anything, and it is canon that they did leave artifacts on at least half a dozen worlds all across the galaxy; we see them. It is also implied that they terraformed Kashyyyk and destroyed Tatooine's ecosystem.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Snip stuff

Basically, it's a combination of you missing stuff, forgetting stuff, and trying to piece together a rough version of what you think it was based on those two criteria.

So in effect, like has been seen in other cases on the board, you really didn't know what the hell you were talking about.

Which as seen in other cases, is some thing you always say, yet you never point out what it is we supposedly dont know. Forgive me that i dont recall every miniscule item of some fanon theory about First Ones-rip offs from Hyperspace. Care to tell us what it IS then?

And yes, most of it is a fan theory, which something I've always been free to admit.

Which makes it fanon bullshit. No canon source describes the Hyperspace Aliens kidnapping humans and plopping them down on another planet that i can locate. If you can i'd love to see it (really, sarcasm aside, i would like to see the actual article). But otherwise, its just fanon and thus no more valid than anyone else's theory.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Yes but the Rakata only had a tiny, tiny Empire.

It doesn't matter. Using their "genetic" Force affinity to navigate through hyperspace, they seem to have established colonies on the homeworlds of a great many of the oldest space faring races of the Old Republic. All they had to do was leave a few hyperdrives on a few of the right worlds when their Empire collapsed, and in a few hundred or thousand years, these once slave races are spreading their seed and their tech throughout the galaxy.

Ok then, sounds like a plan.

The Rakata are kind of retarded (especially retarded looking...) but it would, given that context, make perfect sense. If their empire was very spread out then it may have indeed touched enough worlds to make this work.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Which makes it fanon bullshit. No canon source describes the Hyperspace Aliens kidnapping humans and plopping them down on another planet that i can locate. If you can i'd love to see it (really, sarcasm aside, i would like to see the actual article). But otherwise, its just fanon and thus no more valid than anyone else's theory.

I just fucking told you it's mostly fanon based on a collection of circumstantial evidence and extrapolated hypothesis, and you ask me to provide sources?

There are none! That's why it's fanon, you retard!!

Fuck you, idiot.

[18-Till-I-Die]

I just fucking told you it's mostly fanon based on a collection of circumstantial evidence and extrapolated hypothesis, and you ask me to provide sources?

There are none! That's why it's fanon, you retard!!

Well i asked for sources cause everytime this dicussion about where humans come from pops up the 'Hyperspace Aliens' get dragged out and its supposed to be the 'be all end all' answer or something, or the 'widely accepted' answer, and yet after searching i couldnt find shit. Obviously now i see i cant find shit about them cause they're nonexistant. I had assumed there was at least some canon source for them, for the theory to be formed at all. I didnt think it was just grasped out of thin air, and i guess there might be some 'circumstanctial' evidence...though what it is i still dont know because it still hasnt been stated. Unless you mean the Maw or the Centerpoint station or the original hyperdrives, all of which could have come from any number of known races, individually.

Also, its a really, really overwrought drawn out explaination that makes huge leaps of logic. From what precious little i've been told, mind. STILL no one has actuallys aid what the whole thing IS, let alone where this time travel technology vanished to (surely if huge pieces of their ancient tech was left behind a chunk of a Delorian would be found on some planet with a fossilized Michael J. Fox in it that would shed some light on their true origins, in tens of thousands of years).

[Illuminatus Primus]

Its a theory that's better than "we don't know" because it does offer explanatory value, and its superior to most alternatives in that it does not violate parsimony either by hand-waving thus-far unknown technology in SW (time travel), or by suggesting more complex interpretation of basic text than the obvious ("A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away"), and without violating basic science and logic by postulating independent evolution of essentially identical animals in different galactic environments.

Simply put, the Architects or whomever built the Centerpoint, the Corellian System, and possibly the Maw, had a presence at the earliest stages of the evolution of essentially modern humans on Earth and had intergalactic travel capability, and for whatever reason transplanted Cro-Magnon man and possibly other Earth lifeforms to the GFFA to become the predominant sentient species for whatever motive. The opening scrawl inevitably places Star Wars in a vague past relate to us, and in the same universe.

We avoid adding BS about the diegetic meaning of the opening scrawl, we avoid time travel, we avoid total impossibility (independent identical evolutionary pathways), and we avoid total invention. I dropped the time travel aspect, because although it makes the time issue solved, it violates parsimony like the other theories I disfavor.

[000]

That thoery doesn't quite work without time travel, though. Humans simply haven't existed long enough-- we've been around, what, 50,000 years on Earth?

Human history in Star Wars, on the other hand, stretches back 200,000 years at the very least,

[B5B7]

The biggest example of the use of Earth words (specifically English language words - though if shown in a non-English speaking country they'll use another word) is that the main SW race is referred to as human.

If it is a long time ago in a galaxy far far away then the logical explanation is that they are not called humans and they aren't humans, just a similar bipedal race, that for purposes of audience familiarity the mysterious narrator of the story is telling to members of a race (us) in another galaxy far in the SW future [ie our present spacetime], using words and images familiar to us; and as with any good storyteller he creates the heroes in the image of his audience - if telling the story to people on another world then the heroes' race would look different.

The above idea I have advocated before; Junghalli's theory is another logical alternative.
Another idea is that its simply fiction - oh noes.

[Dooey Jo]

That thoery doesn't quite work without time travel, though. Humans simply haven't existed long enough-- we've been around, what, 50,000 years on Earth?

No, more like 200 000 years.

But if these aliens can traverse intergalactic distances in timespans that are short even for outside observers, then time travel shouldn't be a problem. If they went there today with a bunch of humans and the galaxy is a hundred million lightyears away, it would appear to us that everything they do in their new galaxy happened a hundred million years ago (if they get there really fast of course). I don't know if that was what Lucas really meant by "a long time ago, far far away"...