The Chewie Mythos, Or "C'mere, ya big coward!"

[Anguirus]

I really don't understand the portrayal of Chewbacca in the EU. Somehow, in the novels, Chewbacca is a fearsome warrior, honor-bound to the Skywalker/Solo clan. In particular, he is invariably described as courageous beyond description. He's like a smart Klingon on steroids.

But where did this come from? I've always thought this, but I'm watching ANH and it's particularly jarring: Chewbacca is always either panicking or irrationally angry. He's comic relief. Sure, he shoots at stormtroopers and flies the Falcon, but at other times he's getting behind Han when stormies are rushing in, balking at going down the garbage chute, screaming over random noises, and generally...NOT being the EU Chewie. The other movies aren't that much different. He has that berserk moment in ESB, I guess, and that's it. His Tarzan thing in RotJ was pretty hardcore, but the Ewoks did most of the work on that anyway. Plus, he has that "thinking with his stomach" moment. Has the EU EVER had Chewie make a dumb mistake like that?

I guess what I'm trying to say is, when did everyone's favorite comic relief turn into the uber-warrior and super-mechanic ("THIS piece goes here, THAT piece goes there"...yeah, that fits the EU portrayal) that it took a falling moon to kill?

I don't think it's the fault of any one author or anything, Brian Daley probably created the uber-Chewie, but his Chewbacca was funny, too. Zahn's Chewie is pretty ruthless, and while I don't think he was out-of-character per se, we didn't see him in any situations in which he could be funny. A.C. Crispin used Chewie a lot, and gave him a few good comic moments, but he retained the "courageous warrior" persona, whch really came almost entirely from Daley insead of the films. Then...I don't know, he just kind of turned into the strong, silent bodyguard from there, appearing in novels only long enough to perform some feat of strength or save Han's behind. In short, EU Chewie is BORING...and I thought his end in Vector Prime was almost a mercy (especially since Salvatore gave us one of the better novel Han/Chewie scenes earlier in the book.)

I don't have anything against Chewie. Hell, I think his less-perfect portrayal in the movies is much more interesting than his portrayal in the EU. There's no transition from movie-Chewie to Han's super-strong guardian angel in the novels. And it seems like the Chewie-mythos has spread beyond the novels, to the point where Chewie has this reputation almost everywhere for courage. Looking at the films, I just don't see where he gets it.

[Imperial Overlord]

When Han is about to frozen in carbonite at Bespin, Chewie goes devestatingly apeship and knocks over stormtroopers like bowling pins. Boba Fett almost has to put him down. Han calms him down, asks him to look after Leia, and has the "I love you" moment before being frozen. Flash forward to to Return of the Jedi and Chewie agrees to into Jabba's palace as a prisoner. Jabba's such a sick fuck that he tortures droids who displease him and feeds his dancers to monsters for kicks. That takes serious brass balls to go into that situation, even with back up. Sure Chewie startles easy, but when the chips are down, he can be relied upon.

[Shadowtraveler]

He was most likely a bit startled by the thing that grabs Luke in the garbage compactor. Wookies are a tad superstitious, and having something that grabs your leg from under you and tries to drown you in sewage isn't something to be taken lightly.

[Anguirus]

Yeah, I mentioned "Chewie goes berserk," and it's probably the closest thing the character has to his uber-EU portrayal, but he didn't really take out that many stormtroopers, and he only did as well as he did because the stormies were nice enough not to shoot him. Even the ones he knocked out were probably fine, because he certainly didn't get through their armor.
And I agree that going into Jabba's palace did take balls and loyalty to Han, but it really isn't that much nuttier than what the other characters did. All their necks were on the line.

And I didn't even mention above how underwhelming Chewie's strength is when it gets right down to it. Like the fact that he can be held by an ordinary pair of Imperial binders when they are actually secured (ESB, after going nuts), and the fact that an Imperial officer wrestles his bowcaster away in RotJ. I'm not saying he's not strong, but it's another part of the EU Chewie mythos that doesn't really match up to the movies.

[Batman]

'Even the ones he knocked out were probably fine, because he certainly didn't get through their armor. '
Ever heard of CoM?
'Like the fact that he can be held by an ordinary pair of Imperial binders when they are actually secured'
You mean the ones you have NO FUCKING CLUE about the strength of? For all you know those things could hold Superman.

[VT-16]

Looking at the films, I just don't see where he gets it.

His reputation does extend to the movies, as Jabba says in ROTJ: "At last we have the mighty Chewbacca!"

He is a military commander from the CW, he worked with one of the most infamous smugglers in the galaxy and he's an important rebel operative. Not that bad a resume, going by the movies alone.

[Anguirus]

Ever heard of CoM?

I certainly have. He's not hitting them with a mace, he's dumping them off a small ledge. Are we ASSUMING that they were crippled or killed by this? Because we don't really see what happens to them, but without ascribing Chewie the godlike strength that the EU has given him to begin with, there is no reason why they should have been seriously hurt.

You mean the ones you have NO FUCKING CLUE about the strength of? For all you know those things could hold Superman.

So what's more likely? That those narrow strips of metal are some sort of uber-tech or Chewie's just not as strong as people think?

That guy who took his bowcaster must have been Superman in disguise, then.

Good point about Jabba's line. Chewbacca certainly has a reputation, and a well-deserved one. But I still don't see any movie evidence of the Wookiee juggernaut of the EU. Aside from lines like "mighty Chewbacca" and "pull people's arms out of their sockets" Chewbacca seems more like a lovable fuck-up than anything else. You don't see anything like that outside of the movies themselves.

[AK_Jedi]

In the trash compactor, I seem to remember Chewie slowing one of the walls down for a little just by pushing it. Thats got to take some serious muscle power.

[Isolder74]

You find Chewie being afraid of a Dianoga(a big monster that can eat him) breaks his mighty image I'll send you into the coloseum to talk to a lion and see how well you do.

The point is he saw it almost eat Luke alive you think he is a coward for not wanting to be anywhere near where he can smell it? I think he knew it was there the whole time

"I don't care WHAT you smell" I'm sure there was more to that then I smell something stinky in there ewwww

[Solauren]

The 'you big coward' thing also happened AFTER they'd nearly been crushed and Luke was nearly eaten, after they were in a rather dangerous firefight

Chewie was probably just a LITTLE stressed out and needed to calm down, and he didn't want to tell Han 'Fuck off, I need 5'

[Isolder74]

I guess what I'm trying to say is, when did everyone's favorite comic relief turn into the uber-warrior and super-mechanic ("THIS piece goes here, THAT piece goes there"...yeah, that fits the EU portrayal) that it took a falling moon to kill?

And in the next scene we find out that Chewie had the things in the RIGHT place as sparks fly from where Han put them!

Who's the comic relief now?

[Knife]

Chewie is like a giant dog in character assignment. Loyal to his master and down right vicious in a fight. But even dogs get scared and even dogs don't like wierd shit like sliding down a slide or cramped locations. Plus, I'm sure he could smell danger in the air in verious instances which would explain some of his skitishness.

[Batman]

Ever heard of CoM?

I certainly have. He's not hitting them with a mace, he's dumping them off a small ledge. Are we ASSUMING that they were crippled or killed by this?

I'm attacking your retarded assumption that since he didn't breach the armour they're probably unhurt, moron.

You mean the ones you have NO FUCKING CLUE about the strength of? For all you know those things could hold Superman.

So what's more likely? That those narrow strips of metal are some sort of uber-tech or Chewie's just not as strong as people think?

Yeah, because there's no indication materials in SW are thousands of times stronger than real-world stuff. Oh wait...

[DesertFly]

The 'you big coward' thing also happened AFTER they'd nearly been crushed and Luke was nearly eaten, after they were in a rather dangerous firefight

Chewie was probably just a LITTLE stressed out and needed to calm down, and he didn't want to tell Han 'Fuck off, I need 5'

For all we know, he did, through the beauty of non-verbal communication.

[Anguirus]

In the trash compactor, I seem to remember Chewie slowing one of the walls down for a little just by pushing it. Thats got to take some serious muscle power.

I didn't catch that when I watched it yesterday.

You find Chewie being afraid of a Dianoga(a big monster that can eat him) breaks his mighty image I'll send you into the coloseum to talk to a lion and see how well you do.

You're the first to mention the dianoga, friend. Although it's instructive to compare Chewie's reaction not to what you think my reaction might be, but to the reactions of the other characters.

It's also instructive to see the reactions to this topic...I figured this would lead to some interesting discussion!

Chewie was probably just a LITTLE stressed out and needed to calm down, and he didn't want to tell Han 'Fuck off, I need 5'

Sure. But EU Chewie never needs a "stressed" break, whether pre- or post-ANH.

And in the next scene we find out that Chewie had the things in the RIGHT place as sparks fly from where Han put them!

Who's the comic relief now?

Never made the connection between those two scenes before. I'll give it another watch, but it didn't look like they were talking about the same part of the Falcon to me.

Chewie fucking up is consistent with his putting 3PO's head on backwards, though. (shrug) If Chewie is the great mechanic and tinkerer of the EU, apparently he messed up on 3PO for shits and giggles.

That does remind me of the way he shut down that alarm in the cell in that same scene, though. That probably took some strength.

I'm attacking your retarded assumption that since he didn't breach the armour they're probably unhurt, moron.

You're right, that was stupid. But, we similarly have no indication that they were hurt.

If we bring the EU into it, then we know that Wookiees are extremely strong, which mean they probably were pretty hurt. But that's kind of my whole point. He's been built up quite a bit in said EU. All we know from the movies is that "he's pretty big and strong." Throwing around stormtroopers who purposely aren't shooting at you is pretty good, but still not nearly at the level of EU Wookiees.

Yeah, because there's no indication materials in SW are thousands of times stronger than real-world stuff. Oh wait...

Why do binders meant to restrain humans (they are the same type used in ANH) have to be made out of doubtless-expensive wonder metal?

Once again, we only reach the conclusion that "the binders are wonder metal" from the EU conclusion that "Chewie is one strong motherfucker."

I'm sick of "for all you knows," because my point is that Chewbacca is not portrayed as SuperWookiee in he movies. Explanations introduced after the fact to reconcile SuperWookiee with Chewbacca are of interest to the Star Wars continuity as a whole, but not to me at the moment. The point is, this was all added on later, based on, at best, a few throwaway lines. Chewbacca is not portrayed as any more courageous than any other Rebel, and in fact, comic relief moments end to play up his cowardice. The contrast is jarring, and it is this that is of interest to me.

There is no "ya big coward" moment in any EU I can find, only starstruck descriptions of Chewbacca's courage and loyalty. Well, fine. If you want to develop the character, go ahead, but where did this come from?

[Noble Ire]

Sure. But EU Chewie never needs a "stressed" break, whether pre- or post-ANH.

You can provide evidence to that support that claim, I suppose? Actually, I don't think you've actually mentioned anything concrete in your defense since the thread started, beyond a general "Chewie is uber in teh EU".

Why do binders meant to restrain humans (they are the same type used in ANH) have to be made out of doubtless-expensive wonder metal?

IIRC, the binders are mentioned in one of the Tech Essential Guides. They're designed to hold more than just humans, and creatures of far more physical strength. "Magnetically Reinforced" or someting like that.

[Batman]

While we're at it I'd like some evidence for the 'doubtless expensive' and 'wonder metal' parts given that in the SWU stuff that makes modern day titanium look like playdo is common as mud.

[Anguirus]

Well, if I recall correctly, the electro-binders in Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology are metal bands that cover most of the forearm. I don't recall if there is a paragraph in the entry that mentions standard issue Imperial cuffs. I think the forearm ones are based on the ones from Jedi Search, which prove barely able to restrain Chewbacca and shock him into a stupor because of his constant resistance.

Actually, I don't think you've actually mentioned anything concrete in your defense since the thread started, beyond a general "Chewie is uber in teh EU".

That's just it. I can't recall any Chewbacca comic relief in any of my books, with the exception of his goofing around in the Daley and Allston books and his ripping off the target yoke of the Bria in The Hutt Gambit because he's over-excited.

In contrast, there's plenty of heroics (and precious little character development). Off the top of my head, I can recall two instances where he saved Han from massive explosive decompression (The Hutt Gambit and Solo Command), one instance where he's saved Han from Boba Fett (DEII), many references to his skill at repair and his tendency to tinker with the Falcon (Courtship of Princess Leia has some of this IIRC), one time when he ACTUALLY rips someone's arm off (Courtship of Princess Leia). He's been physically overpowered a couple times (once by a rancor throwing a weighted net in CoPL, one by some nifty aikido-esque thing by Khabarakh in DFR), but it's pretty uncommon (and in Iron Fist it's accepted by many characters that human overpowering a Wookiee is a near-impossible feat...one would think the Imperial officier from RotJ could show them a few things).

I think Daley starts the trend. In the first Han Solo novel, we get references to the life-debt, Chewie sacrifices himself to let Han get away, and he is only brought down by a squad of armored troops. In the three books he also gets to take on some huge, strong alien mano-on-mano twice.

And of course, Vector Prime is his big exit, hurling Anakin Solo into the Falcon and sacrificing himself for the last time.

It's all well and good to me, it's just a contrast. I don't think I really have a "position" per se, I'm just confused. If anyone can show me I'm wrong, I'd appreciate it. With regards to the specific statement you quoted, I certainly don't recall any time where Chewbacca ran off, panicked, or said "take five" because of some noise in the EU.

[Isolder74]

As for the Imperial instance...Would having a half dozen guns pointed at him have anything to do with Chewie surrendering his weapon inside the bunker?


This is with Chewie also noticably annoyed he has to give it up and with once outside in the brawl with the guys after the Ewoks attack and we see him in the battle with his bowcaster(how did he get it back?).

He pulls out the Walker gunner and tosses him like a bean bag chair or pillow like he weighs nothing. -Edit- with one arm

[CaptainChewbacca]

I think Daley starts the trend. In the first Han Solo novel, we get references to the life-debt, Chewie sacrifices himself to let Han get away, and he is only brought down by a squad of armored troops. In the three books he also gets to take on some huge, strong alien mano-on-mano twice.

The alien was Egome Fass, a Houk.

[Elfdart]

Chewie the Uber Warrior belongs in the same shitheap as Han's Corellian Bloodstripes. Chewbacca is essentially Little John to Han's Robin Hood: his friend and in many respects his equal. He's also very much like the family dog in Lassie, Old Yeller or any number of Disney movies. He's funny and goofy and lovable -but if you fuck with him or his "family", he'll make you pay.

I blame Chewanka on EU writers who apparently weren't paying attention when they watched the movies (if they watched the movies at all). Zahn decided to give Chewie huge, powerful retractable claws like a tiger. Funny we don't see slash marks on Imperial officers when Chewie bitchslaps them.


The fact that Chewbacca is very different from Chewanka doesn't make him a pussy, however. One bitchslap from Chewie sent an Imperial officer flying across a room and killed him in ANH. One backhand in ROTJ sent another Imp flying and he threw that AT-ST driver like a rag doll. He also rather casually flung a pair of stormtroopers off a platform in TESB. Boba Fett was scared enough to go for his gun at that point.

About the handcuffs: You'll notice they hold the wrists together with almost no space between them. Chewbacca could be strong as a bull and he won't be able to break loose. Bulls are often tied with rope to hold the ends of their legs together. They can't break loose unless they are improperly tied or something's wrong with the rope. The fact that a number of bad guys have guns drawn at that point helps as well.

[Tiriol]

Zahn decided to give Chewie huge, powerful retractable claws like a tiger. Funny we don't see slash marks on Imperial officers when Chewie bitchslaps them.

This was explained in Knights of the Old Republic game - using those claws in combat is a cultural taboo among the Wookiees, who consider it a sign of insanity. The Wookiee in KotOR didn't even actually use them, only showed them in anger during a fight, and he was instantly branded as a lunatic and a dangerously unbalanced barbarian. Chewbacca had to struggle with the same cultural limits, so he wouldn't use those claws in a fight.

[Elfdart]

Zahn decided to give Chewie huge, powerful retractable claws like a tiger. Funny we don't see slash marks on Imperial officers when Chewie bitchslaps them.

This was explained in Knights of the Old Republic game - using those claws in combat is a cultural taboo among the Wookiees, who consider it a sign of insanity. The Wookiee in KotOR didn't even actually use them, only showed them in anger during a fight, and he was instantly branded as a lunatic and a dangerously unbalanced barbarian. Chewbacca had to struggle with the same cultural limits, so he wouldn't use those claws in a fight.

What horseshit!

[Imperial Overlord]

This was explained in Knights of the Old Republic game -

Its actually from the first Thrawn trilogy, KOTOR was just being consistent with the previously established EU. I think Zahn was trying to rationalize why big bad aboreal Wookies didn't tear people up with tree climbing claws. He shouldn't have bothered. Tree climbing primates don't have claws and they do just fine and they aren't tool using Wookies.

[Anguirus]

As for the Imperial instance...Would having a half dozen guns pointed at him have anything to do with Chewie surrendering his weapon inside the bunker?

If he'd surrendered it, sure, but he's howling and fighting back when the guy takes it. I can easily believe that he's not fighting with his full strength due to all the guns being pointed at him, but he doesn't just hand it to the guy, either.

Elfdart had some good observations. Yeah, Chewie's definately strong. I'm still not sure where him being so much braver than everyone else comes in. "Little John" seems like a good analogy to me, along with the canine one that we know Lucas had on his mind.

Interestingly enough, Daley also originated the Bloodstripes...I mostly like his work but there were some dumb ideas in there. Although to be fair, he was writing them before Han's wardrobe change in Empire.